@RoyBoy posted:As I mentioned earlier, that's how I run mine. It's the only way the loco will start and stop gracefully.
My TPC system goes down to zero, or almost.
I tried this, it works, but has some negatives.
Steve
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Thanks Steve. That's exactly what I needed to know.
Well it arrived last night and this morning I put her thru the paces. I love this engine! Seeing it pull all my Menard's Santa Fe freight (with caboose) warmed my heart. I love that I don't need a wallwart.
I did have the remote battery chamber issue as others have mentioned. Also the horn is truly anemic. My son though the sound file sounded like it was recorded backwards. I also had a small scuff on the top of the cab. I feel I got more than my money's worth. Now just want to see a dummy unit, and some other roadnames.
I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
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@Jim 1939 posted:What is wrong with some of these people? Pick pick pick. It's a starter set engine, I give Menards an A+ for offering it.
Well, they are asking for comments. Some people bring their negativity to task, but most don’t.
So far, in my mind , reasonable comments include stop/start velocity, horn, and number board lighting.
Other comments tend to miss the point that this is a starter engine.
All around, a great step forward from Menards.
However, and without critical comment, I find the backup light through the back door funny.
Alan
@Steve "Papa" Eastman, Nice Job with that paint! It looks fantastic!
@ajzend, I don't believe Menards ever stated this was a "starter engine", but something inferred based on the apparent price point target. To shutdown feedback on features that are considered missing or desired is not necessary. Let Menards classify and sort through the all feedback and make of it what they will.
After a couple of hours of run time, mine just lost the prime mover sounds. The bell, horn, and talk all still work, just no engine sounds....
Found the problem, somewhere during going up/down the hills and testing going thru 042 and 031 switches the sounds switched moved from on to off. This happened while the train was running mind you. Since its not marked either way it took a while to realize that is what happened.
Apparently the switch only turns off the prime mover sounds, everything else still sounds off loud and clear!
Some of the posted internal pictures are very well done and quite useful. The controller appears to be crystal controlled which most likely puts the wireless control frequency in either the VHF or UHF band, but it could be higher. This is quite similar to many of the R/C toy cars. The antennas on both the controller transmitter board and the loco mounted receiver board are printed on the PCB's. Conversion to battery power would not be a major issue with this loco and would probably function well. Overall, an interesting product introduction.
@bmoran4 posted:@Steve "Papa" Eastman, Nice Job with that paint! It looks fantastic!
@ajzend, I don't believe Menards ever stated this was a "starter engine", but something inferred based on the apparent price point target. To shutdown feedback on features that are considered missing or desired is not necessary. Let Menards classify and sort through the all feedback and make of it what they will.
Maybe I’m being misunderstood, but I’m not calling for any shut down of comments.
Alan
I think Menards needs to ask for them back after about 4 weeks. They should provide a prepaid shipping label and a feedback form that will need to be completed. I feel it would be important for them to examine the used items to evaluate the actual products that have had components fail. Of course they would refund the price or provide a replacement when the bugs and kinks are worked out.
Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
@Former Member posted:Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
Did you read the original post by Mark? He didn’t throw this away as a beta test with no direction. But he did ask for blunt critical reviews of the product sent to the guest email box. Doesn’t sound like someone that’s trying to “save face.” It does sound like a company that’s planning on modifications based on feedback.
@Former Member posted:Were these really beta test engines? Two hundred units thru what they thought was going to be final production, did Menard's decide to label them "beta" in order to save face and stop production? The issues (especially a glaring lack of low speed control) people are bringing up on here seem pretty obvious and should've likely been resolved on a prototype or two before cranking out 200 of them. Just a thought.
My guess is that they thought were “finished” with them when they showed up from the factory. Then, some of the people tried running them and realized that there were issues that needed addressed. So they made a decision to circulate the product at low margin to cover their costs and solicit feedback from experienced users. Finished cost of goods is usually no more than 30% of retail. Using that math, these cost about $45-50 to produce in a full run of say 5,000 units. Fewer total units means a higher cost per unit so, these could have cost as much as $75 to produce in limited numbers.
A typical Lionel Lionel FT LionChief diesel has about a cost of goods around the same $45-60 range. Cost of goods is how much A manufacturer pays for the finished product complete with packaging and literature, and in some cases research & development costs for new items. The dealers pay more and the consumer pays the most. These are guesstimates based on my personal experience in the sector manufacturing.
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
Sometimes the simplest ideas are the best! Great idea.
I don't have one. I've read this topic all the way through. I have some opinions Menards may be interested in or not, since I don't have one, but would be interested.
1. Loose the crew talk.
2. Add flywheels.
3. Don't call it an F3.
4. Improve low speed operation.
5. Either shiny chrome it or don't. Don't do the trucks, but not the shell.
6. Light the number boards differently or don't light them at all. Skip the red light.
7. Improve the remote, or leave it conventional operation.
8. Do the above "fixes", and price at $200.00. It would be a bargain at that price and most of the "problems" would be corrected.
I would like the thank Menards for entering the O-gauge market. I was pretty unimpressed when the first buildings came out that were copies of a cottage industry manufacturer, but since then, Menards has really focused on the starter or affordable side of the hobby, which I do appreciate.
Hi Mark From Menards
Every one beat me to ordering this engine ! Great Looking Engine !
Please Set up the following paint Schemes: Milwaukee Road, Chicago & Northwestern, Rock island, NYC , PRR, Western Pacific, & many more !
I will be waiting !
Thanks
Bill in Wauwatosa
Ps Maybe do a CHRISTMAS paint scheme as well !
Also maybe a Halloween paint scheme for Jim R !
M:
How about getting, if you can, the Williams molds and jump start the line that way?
I picked up my engine from Menards this morning. Following are some of my observations:
1. To eliminate most of the stop/start jerk, I set the remote to the F in Forward. No need to turn it to full speed. I then turn the transformer on slowly for a fairly smooth start. I only give it 5 volts, all it needs. I can then rotate the remote or transformer handle up for enough speed to send it flying. Great motors inside!
2. My remote had no issues. I also had the scuff marks on top.
3. The orange marker board lights give a really neat glow from the headlight in the dark. In operation, the headlight is bright and really lights up the track.
4. The multiple push on the horn button works fine for me. I'm sere Menards will modify this function.
5. After running awhile, I realized that I didn't have the prime mover sounds. Volume control was full up. Got the first two screws out of the shell and noticed the sound On/off switch on the bottom. It should really be marked as to which is on. Sound works great now. Prime mover sounds ramp up nicely, but needs a little more base. If you take the shell off, watch the marker board bulbs. They can be easily bent out of position.
6. Crew/tower talk is loud and clear, more so than many high-end engines. Also quite a variety.
7. The couplers are of very good quality.
8. Pulled 25 cars with ease and could have handled more. A strong runner!
Bottom line, Menards has a great thing going that can only benefit the model train hobby. I'm sure they will get the bugs worked out before full production begins. I know that based on this trial run, I wouldn't hesitate to buy more of their future engines. Great job, Menards!
Ron
Outstanding offering from Menards. As one of the other members posted - I see this as a great engine to let the grandkids call their own and have fun pulling their own consist (mostly flat and crane cars with very creative loads). The ability to put together a set for around $325 (engine and five cars - no track/transformer) is a real winner.
Nicely done Menards.
Paul
@RixTrack posted:My guess is that they thought were “finished” with them when they showed up from the factory. Then, some of the people tried running them and realized that there were issues that needed addressed. So they made a decision to circulate the product at low margin to cover their costs and solicit feedback from experienced users.
I was thinking this exact thing.
A company I worked for years ago had an annual employee picnic and each year they would get everyone a nice gift. They had about 1400 employees. Well one year they decided to get everyone one of those nice folding camping chairs that fold up into a bag, in the company colors with their logo on it. While the company was involved in manufacturing, it was more on a military scale with big metal things - things like armor and ships etc. Well for these chairs, they decided to order them from China because they found a place that would let you customize them and they were cheap. This was around 2003 or so. So, while China was full steam into the manufactured goods segment - not everyone was wise to their tricks.
The chairs showed up in a 40 ft intermodal container stacked to the ceiling. No boxes. No bags. No pallets. Nothing but chairs. It took the loading dock guys quite a while to unload those things and I have no idea how they got them to the picnic.
Weeks later after the event, I was at a campfire with some friends and I leaned to the side to grab my beer and down I went. I'm not a "skinny" guy but I don't go around breaking chairs that often. I copped it up to a defect and moved on. Well one by one, everyone's chairs started to break. The company was lucky they didn't end up with a lawsuit had someone fell and hit their head or something.
There are some wonderful products that are made in China - but man you have to watch the manufacturing process like a hawk. You also need to specify EVERYTHING. You want it in boxes - specify exactly what you want. You want it palletized, better be on the requirements document. The manufacturing is sometimes like this giant powerful saw that will cut down any tree and make amazing things with the wood. But if you are doing the ordering, YOU are the saw's operator and you need to really know your stuff so you don't get ripped off when "renting" the saw.
OMG!!!!!
What is it with all you people who like to bring up conspiracies? Can't take Mark at his word? And we can stop with the lessons on doing business with China. It gets posted in almost every thread that deals with products coming from there....and usually by the same few people.
I'd say, "get a hobby," apparently some of you already have one: "Dissect and negatively commentate on every business decision by train companies, without any solid backup information.
I can’t wait for Menards to apply some of the requested fixes. So looking forward to a plethora of road names. You’ve created a lot of excitement Menards. Thank you, Thank you!
@EscapeRocks posted:OMG!!!!!
What is it with all you people who like to bring up conspiracies? Can't take Mark at his word? And we can stop with the lessons on doing business with China. It gets posted in almost every thread that deals with products coming from there....and usually by the same few people.
I'd say, "get a hobby," apparently some of you already have one: "Dissect and negatively commentate on every business decision by train companies, without any solid backup information.
What conspiracies are you talking about? I think Menards is making some great business decisions. Nothing negative about it. I’m just happy to have another F-unit variant that might become widely available. Lionel and MTH never did an FP7!
Nice engine so far. Ran it for a while with a legacy engine on the same track with a 180 powerhouse . Starts and stops were kind of rough. Found it ran a little smother through a ZWC just setting the Menards remote up a little ways and controlling the voltage through the Legacy Cab 2. Using that setup put it on a track with a steep grade like 7" in about 12' of track uphill. Engine was hooked to 12 cars which have weights in them to bring up to standards. Having those cars behind took care of the fast starts and stops. Engine ran smooth up and down the grade no problem pulling the cars. Ran on that track for a half hour or so and engine showed no sign of getting over heated. The engine ran smother and better than the Lionel GP9 which has 2 can motors in the trucks that normally pulls that train.
Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable. Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business. For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.
KUDOS to the Menards people!!!
@Elevatorman posted:Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable.
Most of the comments have been generally favorable about this locomotive AND Mark from Menards DID solicit input about any frailties.
Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business. For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.
I would assume Menards would like to know where the product could be improved. If things like the weak battery clip in the remotes aren't addressed and result in excessive returns by John Q. Public they will be of no value to newcomers.
Rusty
KUDOS to the Menards people!!!
I think it's a great looking locomotive and hope to see other fallen flags since I already have several Santa Fe F units. Like someone mentioned earlier a dummy unit and B unit would be a nice addition. Hopefully Mark will post a thread asking members what road names they prefer.
@Elevatorman posted:Bottom Line...... IT'S A TOY!!!!!! Who cares about colors, what type it is, as long as it runs, pulls a decent consist and reliable. Maybe just maybe it will bring newcomers into this great hobby which seems to be pricing themselves out of business. For around $150 what a bargain. And also who cares who made it.
KUDOS to the Menards people!!!
Just think of the potential new market Menards could be serving here. How many folks are in a train store looking for paint, flooring, lumber etc???? With the addition of motive power, and I'm sure RTR sets to come as well, impulse buys should cover the R&D cost by themselves. Have you seen the price of the Straburg # 90?
I have many of their cars and they are well made and are a fraction of the cost of the regular mfrs. I would buy the buildings too but my layout is too small.
The feedback Mark and the team are getting just on this thread are worth more than any fancy marketing consultant could provide. So let's leave the conspiracy theories on the shelf and enjoy the moment and what's to come.
I'm still in awe that Menard's jumped into the pond with a powered unit. It adds a whole new dimension to their existing train line, and I surely hope they expand that part of the lineup. 
John,
I am hoping the lineup is varied, robust and long lived!
@RSJB18 posted:The feedback Mark and the team are getting just on this thread are worth more than any fancy marketing consultant could provide. So let's leave the conspiracy theories on the shelf and enjoy the moment and what's to come.
With 14 thread pages, and who knows how many more may follow, if Menards doesn't see what worked and what didn't for this loco, then I guess not more can be said here by us OGRers.
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
Wow Steve! Now that made a HUGE difference.
And in case you thought Menards was just lumber, paint and hardware and now trains, here comes Menards coffee!!
https://www.menards.com/main/l...m_campaign=30D2-2021(1)&utm_content=Great-Value-Marcella&spMailingID=33520239&spUserID=NDE5NzIxMDI2NDI0S0&spJobID=1984375981&spReportId=MTk4NDM3NTk4MQS2
But we can drink the their coffee while admiring the Menards loco pulling Menards cars past Menards buildings. There, kept the thread focus on trains!
I didn’t get one but have been following this thread very closely. It seems that the glaring issues that I would be concerned about for my purchase are remote contacts, packaging for cosmetics and the quick start. I am not concerned about the number boards and for night running they look kind of cool. The packaging could be corrected with a simple foam sheet across the top of the engine and will still display nicely on retail shelving. There might need to be a slight redesign for the copper contacts in the remote, still a simple fix. The jackrabbit starts might be correctable with something as simple as wiring motors in a series. None of my MPC engines have flywheels and it has never been an issue, however they are nice.
Now down to the real reason for my post this morning. I believe you have a chance to reach out to beginners, budget minded operators and collectors.
Yes I said collectors ! Find unique road names, prototypical or not and produce a limited number of each. I am not in for a Santa Fe or New York Central, I can get those anywhere but come up with some railroads that have flashy paint schemes and that haven’t been done to death and I will be in for one of each. Then all of a sudden, instant collectible, I will have to have one of everyone produced. You might even snag a high end collector/operator because of that road name they can’t get anywhere else ( think upgradable).
I think this could get real interesting real fast !
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:I opted to mist the shiny trucks and pilot with Tamiya Silver Leaf. I like the difference.
Steve
Much improved. The shiny trucks are a swing and a miss for me.
@CAPPilot posted:An F3 is not on my wish list, but if this is successful it will be interesting to see what future engines they do. At 13", their F3 is scale length so I assume the other dimensions are good too. If future engines are also scale sized that would be great (for me).
As a command control engine, does it matter to any of you that it does not have electrocouplers?
Yes, since I have a switching layout and enjoy switching, electrocouplers operated by pressing a button on a handheld is important to me.
This morning I found a use for a Santa Fe B unit from MTH that I wasn't currently using. It works quite well with Menards FP7. I had to rubber band the teather to the couplers, but I may be able to retract it into the B unit.
Ron
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@rrman posted:And in case you thought Menards was just lumber, paint and hardware and now trains, here comes Menards coffee!!
https://www.menards.com/main/l...m_campaign=30D2-2021(1)&utm_content=Great-Value-Marcella&spMailingID=33520239&spUserID=NDE5NzIxMDI2NDI0S0&spJobID=1984375981&spReportId=MTk4NDM3NTk4MQS2
But we can drink the their coffee while admiring the Menards loco pulling Menards cars past Menards buildings. There, kept the thread focus on trains!
Tastes like a robust Columbian Dark Roast with a hint of fresh cut 2x4??? 
Rusty
@RSJB18 posted:Much improved. The shiny trucks are a swing and a miss for me.
I would think that the shiny trucks would be great if the body had a chromed look to it. As it is it’s a little incongruous, however, it could have an appeal to the perhaps targeted user- kids?
By the way, do you have to strip it or prime the trucks first?
Alan
@Rusty Traque posted:Tastes like a robust Columbian Dark Roast with a hint of fresh cut 2x4???
Rusty
😜🤪😂
@ajzend posted:I would think that the shiny trucks would be great if the body had a chromed look to it. As it is it’s a little incongruous, however, it could have an appeal to the perhaps targeted user- kids?
By the way, do you have to strip it or prime the trucks first?
Alan
The shiny parts appear to be raw metal, so I just sprayed them directly.
Steve
Who is the targeted end user?
Is this being put out for us; the mature user? Or is this intended as the motive power for a starter set. In other words, kids.
What we see will go right over the head of a new young engineer. They might like the jack rabbit starts. (My nephew used to wonder why the train accessories were so slow).
A reddish glow to the number boards might be a novel attraction.
They could be happy with any push button horn.
The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.
So, are we reviewing a kids toy, or an adult toy? Where’s the money at, and for what targeted user?
I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Menards corrected our adult concerns, and they probably will.
But, is this targeted as an inexpensive engine around which to build bigger Menards sets from?
Of course, one might say why not target both markets? I enjoy my high end engines, but I also enjoy running Williams engines too Let’s see what the final price point is , and how it’s packaged That will give us the answer (unless Mark tips his hand first)
Alan
I tested the Menards remote for the Santa Fe engine for distance. Works great at 35 feet. I couldn't get farther away, so it will work fine for me.
Ron
@ajzend posted:Who is the targeted end user?
Is this being put out for us; the mature user? Or is this intended as the motive power for a starter set. In other words, kids.
What we see will go right over the head of a new young engineer. They might like the jack rabbit starts. (My nephew used to wonder why the train accessories were so slow).
A reddish glow to the number boards might be a novel attraction.
They could be happy with any push button horn.The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.
So, are we reviewing a kids toy, or an adult toy? Where’s the money at, and for what targeted user?I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be nice if Menards corrected our adult concerns, and they probably will.
But, is this targeted as an inexpensive engine around which to build bigger Menards sets from?Of course, one might say why not target both markets? I enjoy my high end engines, but I also enjoy running Williams engines too Let’s see what the final price point is , and how it’s packaged That will give us the answer (unless Mark tips his hand first)
Alan
Hey, watch who you are calling mature!
Love the engine @Menards. Really good job. Just some feedback for you in this thread I made.
@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:I tested the Menards remote for the Santa Fe engine for distance. Works great at 35 feet. I couldn't get farther away, so it will work fine for me.
Ron
Does engine stay running or does it stop if no transmitter sending? Answering my own question, I would think it stays running until a new command sent.
@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:This morning I found a use for a Santa Fe B unit from MTH that I wasn't currently using. It works quite well with Menards FP7. I had to rubber band the teather to the couplers, but I may be able to retract it into the B unit.
Ron
What is the teather for. Does it have sound?
John
My RK MTH Santa Fe set has the sound in the A unit, and pass through tether for lights for B unit and on to the trailing dummy A unit for lights and rear coupler.
rrman - good question. I went down to my layout to give it a try. The engine will stay running with no commands given to it as long as the remote is turned on. I set my transformer to only a couple of volts and turned the remote off. The engine went about a quarter of the way around my layout and stopped dead. With the couple of volts on the track, the engine remained in neutral with lights and idle sounds. Tried this a few times with the same results. The engine has two large capacitors and I think that one of them retains the remote commands until it is depleted and shuts the engine down. Just a guess on my part.
Ron
@Ron_S posted:My RK MTH Santa Fe set has the sound in the A unit, and pass through tether for lights for B unit and on to the trailing dummy A unit for lights and rear coupler.
OK. Thanks Ron. I take it the MTH B unit matches pretty well?
JOhn
Another comment on the wiring in the engine. I’m impressed with the heavy gauge wire used in it compared to the competition. I didn’t check the gauge when I had the shell off, but it looked to be at least 18 gauge.
A shout out to Elizabeth W.at Menards in customer service. I deleted the receipt for the F3 and she emailed another one so I could get the rebate.
This is exciting news for sure and can’t wait to see what’s in store next !
There are a few Menards Facebook pages out there with posts already .
Great time for model railroading folks 😎
Ron S is right on as to the purpose of the teather. The B unit has almost identical dimensions as the Menards Santa Fe. The MTH B unit has more glossy paint and the trucks match the body color. Other than that, it looks quite at home behind the A unit. The extra weight also helps cushion the start-up jerk.
Ron A
I’m not a fan of the shiny trucks and couplers, but Steve posted a solution. It is definitely a better running loco than my first starter set loco, a Lionel single motor RS-3
Alright....who's gonna open up one of the trucks and see what the gears are made of???
Where's Alex M when we need him? lol!
@ajzend posted:Who is the targeted end user?
The broken red paint pattern over the grills would not even be noticed.
So, are we reviewing a kids toy, or an adult toy? Where’s the money at, and for what targeted user?Alan
If only the adults knew what they are talking about. The paint scheme is accurate as is, as Rusty Traque showed in a link earlier in this thread and as hobbyists such as myself have seen in many photos and models for years. (Which I think you already know, Alan, but many here apparently don’t).
The external gears are plastic, which are easy to see. My question is how do you remove the motor to see what the worm and internal gear look like? There is no screw under the truck to take out to remove the motor like we’re used to with Lionel and MTH.
Ron
There is a screw, it is a allen head. The motor worm gear is brass, the truck gear is plastic just like the external ones.
Kind of surprised M went with an F unit. I thought they would go with something like a NW2 dwitchet as a start.
Thanks Darrell for clearing that up. I looked at that "screw" and couldn't see the allen head clearly enough. Must be a combination of my not-the-best glasses and the glare from the shiny truck, although I thought that it did resemble an allen head. How well was the worm and internal gear lubricated?
Ron
@rrman posted:Does engine stay running or does it stop if no transmitter sending? Answering my own question, I would think it stays running until a new command sent.
If you run it and then turn off the remote, the loco stays running for about 1-2 seconds, then stops with a vengeance.
@Dominic Mazoch posted:Kind of surprised M went with an F unit. I thought they would go with something like a NW2 dwitchet as a start.
An F-unit gives more room inside to work with and you don't have to deal with platform railings.
Rusty
A couple more videos of mine. Pulling 6 medium weight passenger cars in 95 degree heat. The patio has a slope to it, but there was no speed changes as it encountered the minor elevation differences. Ran it for about 6 hours total. Also a short night video to show the headlight.
Steve
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@Darrell posted:There is a screw, it is a allen head. The motor worm gear is brass, the truck gear is plastic just like the external ones.
Was there adequate grease?
@RickO posted:Alright....who's gonna open up one of the trucks and see what the gears are made of???
Where's Alex M when we need him? lol!
Hi Rick,
I was going to purchase one , take it apart to see what’s inside. It sold out before I could do so lol.
Thanks, Alex
@RickO posted:Was there adequate grease?
Actually if the gear is delrin, no grease is required. If its nylon then grease won’t help. I am guessing the former.
Pete
@Steve "Papa" Eastman posted:A couple more videos of mine. Pulling 6 medium weight passenger cars in 95 degree heat. The patio has a slope to it, but there was no speed changes as it encountered the minor elevation differences. Ran it for about 6 hours total. Also a short night video to show the headlight.
Steve
Looks like the number board LED on the left side isn't aligned properly and it's creating a light spot on the shell. I'm not keen on how they lit the number boards on these with one LED behind. Makes for a very narrow beam.
Thanks for the video and report. Looks like Menard's, with a few adjustments, has a nice low end model.
Finally got around to unpacking mine last night. Very nice looking model. As previously mentioned the shiny trucks are not my favorite but they will grow on me eventually. The plastic clam shell packaging is solid but I would add a thin foam padding around the shell. Mine also has a few marks along the roof from the package.
I also had problems with the battery terminals in the remote. I use Duracell AAA's and the positive tip doesn't make contact with the terminal. I had to bend the terminals a bit to get good contact. It would also be good if the speed control had a center off stop on the pot. As I was testing the loco I rammed it into reverse several times.
I use a KW for power and at about 12-13v the loco was manageable on starts/stops. Better low speed at this voltage too. If sets are produced with a 16v wallwart there may be issues.
The headlight is nice and bright, I'm also not a fan of the number board lights but it's not a deal breaker for me either. I find the crew talk to be cringe inducing (same for the big mfrs), just my personal opinion. The prime mover sound is good, horn and bell could use some modification.
For the record, it will navigate 027 curves too!
Overall I give it a B+/A-. Certainly a solid debut for Menards. I'm sure they have other models in the works. I'd like to see more of the early diesel era, NW-2, RS-3, Geep's, along with some modern stuff. If they do a steamer then all the better.
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Here’s another short video clip, this time of the Menards locomotive pulling a consist of postwar Lionel aluminum passenger cars on the Milwaukee Lionel Railroad Club layout yesterday.
Some tech info: The MTH Z-4000 transformer was set at 10 volts and the remote throttle was aligned with the letter “F” (from the word “Forward”), giving it a nice slow speed setting around the curve.
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I didn't receive one of the 200 test samples, but in looking over the notes and watching the videos I'll suggest that getting flywheels in place so that the engine is able to coast would be a critical upgrade. If the intention is to get folks to pick up a locomotive at a very reasonable price for their kids to run, that screeching halt with younger children will lead to unhappiness (read derailments). As anecdotal evidence, I collect AMT/KMT F units from the 50s that stop dead in their tracks when power is cut - they can pull stumps due to their weight/traction tires, but there's zero coasting ability which frustrated my young son when he tried running them. We had a number of modern diesels with flywheels which enabled coasts to the stopping point when power was cut which he'd run successfully (and greatly reduced the number of derailed cars that inevitably piled up when running the non-coasting power). I'd also add that being able to run the engines conventionally would be a worthwhile addition - as it stands, it appears the engine won't move if the remote isn't used - broken remotes will lead to unhappy engineers if they can't run their engines at all.
Nice track. I always loved Lionel's or Menard's good old fashion tubular track. I found it to be very dependable. It worked for me for years.
@MTN posted:I'd also add that being able to run the engines conventionally would be a worthwhile addition - as it stands, it appears the engine won't move if the remote isn't used - broken remotes will lead to unhappy engineers if they can't run their engines at all.
True, adding a simple switch could bypass the electronics. However it would lock the engine in forward mode (or with more switch complexity, forward/reverse). If you want the "automatic" F,N,R,N then $$$ come in and we are moving into the low end Lionel et-al RTR sets, so that low price point begins to go away.
Nearly all who have expressed the desire for it to run conventional have the ability to modify this once purchased. Keeping the price low and the livery varied is definitely a win/win.
I am hoping that several run their locomotive hard and find out if the gears and motors hold up to prolonged and steady use. Whether a 7 year old or a 70 year old kid wants it to run, and run and run..........
@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:rrman - good question. I went down to my layout to give it a try. The engine will stay running with no commands given to it as long as the remote is turned on. I set my transformer to only a couple of volts and turned the remote off. The engine went about a quarter of the way around my layout and stopped dead. With the couple of volts on the track, the engine remained in neutral with lights and idle sounds. Tried this a few times with the same results. The engine has two large capacitors and I think that one of them retains the remote commands until it is depleted and shuts the engine down. Just a guess on my part.
Ron
Thanks Ron for the answer (now I can sleep tonight with this burning question answered! 
) So speculating the remote periodically pings the loco with the speed command. If no ping after X seconds then loco stops.
The brass worm gear has a coat of grease, the plastic gears do not. The gears appear to me to be made of delrin.
I picked up my copy of the Menards Engine yesterday and was NOT disappointed.
The trucks are just fine the way they are as it adds a bit of class to a stagnate old model everyone is accustomed to. Keep in mind this a toy and not a precision model. It is also geared to the general public. Also the level of detail in the trucks is very well done from my perspective.
The horn could be better and a slight packaging adjustment of the plastic form in which the model rests would eliminate the rub mark on top of the engine.
Personally I'm not a fan of any crew talk no matter who the manufacturer is. I find it annoying actually. It would be different if the operator of the engine had to communicate with the dispatcher directly. Then there would be some actual interaction in running the model.
Running the model is similar to what others have noted, but using the trick of moving the command dial to forward and then throttling up allowed for a much smoother start.
Pulling power excellent.
Paint application and color is excellent as it is typically with all of Menards models nice and crisp.
I give them an A++ for effort and an A for the model - keeping in mind this is their first powered model ever and that it was a beta version.
Not even your big manufactures who have been solely in the model train business for decades can consistently deliver models that meet or exceed expectations be it graphics, scale, power, pricing, features, etc.
Menards is essentially a lumber / hardware company that is only dabbling in the model train market. My hat goes off to them for a job well done given they do not have a model Train R&D department working full time to deliver model train related products that they do.
- Speed control needs improvement.
- Horn needs improvement--if one push of button triggers, can it at least trigger a 4 second blast?
- Gears really should be metal.
Bravo, Menards! You can make these upgrades, add to the retail cost and this would still be a bargain.
After some experience with running this engine, I am curious as to why some are putting 16+ volts to the track. This engine is not TMCC or DCS, but more like conventional Williams, Weaver, Custom Trains, and many Lionel engines. These conventional engines begin operation at about 3 volts. For the Menatds engine, I turn on the remote in neutral and turn the transformer on that the lights on my switch controls just light up. This gives the engine its lights and start up sounds and any preliminary crew talk that you may desire. Put the remote at the F in Forward for a relatively smooth start. I then move the transformer up to 5 volts to increase speed and leave it there. Then turning the remote about half way gives you about 30 scale miles per hour. Turning the remote all the way up gives you about 90 scale miles per hour, much more than one needs. Plus you can still go up to 18 volts on the transformer. I can only imagine what would happen then! The motors in this engine are truly very responsive. To stop the engine, I simply make sure the remote is at the F position and turn down the transformer until the engine stops, again relatively smoothly. Lots of extra motions, which I'm sure Menards will correct with our input, but that's half the fun in running this engine knowing it will mean more good things to come as Menards moves into engine production.
Ron
@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:After some experience with running this engine, I am curious as to why some are putting 16+ volts to the track. This engine is not TMCC or DCS, but more like conventional Williams, Weaver, Custom Trains, and many Lionel engines. These conventional engines begin operation at about 3 volts. For the Menatds engine, I turn on the remote in neutral and turn the transformer on that the lights on my switch controls just light up. This gives the engine its lights and start up sounds and any preliminary crew talk that you may desire. Put the remote at the F in Forward for a relatively smooth start. I then move the transformer up to 5 volts to increase speed and leave it there. Then turning the remote about half way gives you about 30 scale miles per hour. Turning the remote all the way up gives you about 90 scale miles per hour, much more than one needs. Plus you can still go up to 18 volts on the transformer. I can only imagine what would happen then! The motors in this engine are truly very responsive. To stop the engine, I simply make sure the remote is at the F position and turn down the transformer until the engine stops, again relatively smoothly. Lots of extra motions, which I'm sure Menards will correct with our input, but that's half the fun in running this engine knowing it will mean more good things to come as Menards moves into engine production.
Ron
Good point Ron. I was wondering why 18V. Lucky the designers took the 18+V into account, otherwise there would/could have been a fire in the loco engine room!. Obviously, Menards could have included a paper saying for best performance set transformer to X volts. I am sure Menards Mark has read this forum threads to realize most of us operate TMCC and/or DCS with 18V tracks. But I presume much.
Why a nominal 18 VAC? Because that is the de facto standard we expect from all non-conventional three rail O gauge items. Why would it be anything else but that, especially since there's no manual or documentation that states otherwise?
I firmly believe Menards should follow the conventions that are pre-existing wherever possible and where there is no substantial benefit to deviate.
@rrman posted:Obviously, Menards could have included a paper saying for best performance set transformer to X volts. I am sure Menards Mark has read this forum threads to realize most of us operate TMCC and/or DCS with 18V tracks. But I presume much.
That was one of my suggestions to Menards, as well. I think we all defaulted to 18 volts based on our experiences with TMCC, LionChief and DCS.
By trial and error, some forum members figured out that you could turn the transformer throttle down to as little as 3 volts. A recommended voltage setting would be welcomed, as well any cautions about what the maximums and minimums should be.
@RON ARNDT 091718 posted:After some experience with running this engine, I am curious as to why some are putting 16+ volts to the track. This engine is not TMCC or DCS, but more like conventional Williams, Weaver, Custom Trains, and many Lionel engines. These conventional engines begin operation at about 3 volts. For the Menatds engine, I turn on the remote in neutral and turn the transformer on that the lights on my switch controls just light up. This gives the engine its lights and start up sounds and any preliminary crew talk that you may desire. Put the remote at the F in Forward for a relatively smooth start. I then move the transformer up to 5 volts to increase speed and leave it there. Then turning the remote about half way gives you about 30 scale miles per hour. Turning the remote all the way up gives you about 90 scale miles per hour, much more than one needs. Plus you can still go up to 18 volts on the transformer. I can only imagine what would happen then! The motors in this engine are truly very responsive. To stop the engine, I simply make sure the remote is at the F position and turn down the transformer until the engine stops, again relatively smoothly. Lots of extra motions, which I'm sure Menards will correct with our input, but that's half the fun in running this engine knowing it will mean more good things to come as Menards moves into engine production.
Ron
And how about those command layouts that operate solely through a brick that can only output 18v. There are quite a number of us who don't use traditional transformers that allow you to vary the voltage.
I guess 18 volt would be needed if you run the engine on the same track with legacy or DCS engines. If on a separate loop then by all means do as you’ve stated. Good info.
Good point for those not using variable output transformers. I use two GW-180's, and a Z-1000 to run my trains, plus other transformers for accessories. The best of both worlds under the circumstances. Boy, that must really be an abrupt start and stop when only using bricks. I still occasionally have derailments when I goof up using my conservative procedures.
Ron
@Craftech posted:1. Turned up the track voltage on my tubular track layout (measured with an AC voltmeter) with KW throttle till it read 18v center to outside rail.
2. Placed engine on track and plugged in KW. Engine started.
3. Turned on remote. Light came on, sound level adjusted with remote volume control.
4. Moved forward no problem, ran a few feet, and then it tripped the circuit breaker I have in line with rails. The breaker is rated at 7.5A (Sensata breaker).
5. Disconnected everything except power to a single lockon. Same thing after a few feet.
6. Turned voltage down to around 16v. Tripped the breaker after short run again.
7. Connected different accessory terminals to track, but I could not get a reading on my voltmeter at the track so I was afraid to try the engine that way. I have never connected the accessory terminals to the track before anyway.
8. Next step is to make a circle with some Menards tubular track, connect power to it, and try it again. If that doesn't work I will get an 18v DC power supply and try that on my tubular track. Positive to center rail, negative to one of the outside rails.\
John
@rrman replied:
"I suspect a momentary short that happens when engine moves. Check wires to the trucks for abrasions or missing heat shrink tubing. Or a pickup rollers are unevenly round or holder warpped and touching the truck frame."
I didn't listen to him so I set up a Menards circle with O Gauge track instead of using my 027 layout and it ran flawlessly. Thinking there must be a short in my 027 layout I tore the entire thing apart and tested each section of tubular track and the Marx switches. Couldn't find the short.
So I set up lengths of 027 track and tested it a little at a time as I added track and it shorted after I set up around 3 feet of track.
So I put a 30" section of 027 against the bottom of the Menards engine and flipped the sandwich upside down and lo and behold one of the spring loaded coupler screws (phillips) was touching the center rail. It came from the factory not screwed in all the way. Screwed it in and it ran flawlessly. Apparently regular O Gauge track elevated the truck enough that the screw didn't touch the center rail. Dropped down on 027 it touched.
Oh well, I wanted to tear my layout apart anyway so this was a good excuse.
Sorry @rrman - you were right.
John
EDIT: I have been following the other posts and am not using 18v. Much lower.
@Craftech posted:@rrman replied:
"I suspect a momentary short that happens when engine moves. Check wires to the trucks for abrasions or missing heat shrink tubing. Or a pickup rollers are unevenly round or holder warpped and touching the truck frame."
I didn't listen to him so I set up a Menards circle with O Gauge track instead of using my 027 layout and it ran flawlessly. Thinking there must be a short in my 027 layout I tore the entire thing apart and tested each section of tubular track and the Marx switches. Couldn't find the short.
So I set up lengths of 027 track and tested it a little at a time as I added track and it shorted after I set up around 3 feet of track.
So I put a 30" section of 027 against the bottom of the Menards engine and flipped the sandwich upside down and lo and behold one of the spring loaded coupler screws (phillips) was touching the center rail. It came from the factory not screwed in all the way. Screwed it in and it ran flawlessly. Apparently regular O Gauge track elevated the truck enough that the screw didn't touch the center rail. Dropped down on 027 it touched.
Oh well, I wanted to tear my layout apart anyway so this was a good excuse.
Sorry @rrman - you were right.
John
Thanks John. Nice to know my brain's candle flame still flickers once in awhile!!
@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:Steve "Papa" Eastman: I've been reluctant to post anything here since this thread was set up for the lucky model railroaders who obtained one of the 200 initial Menards Santa Fe "FP7" Diesel locomotives so the model can be fully tested and send Menards the feedback they want in order to work out any issues and move forward with this new Nice Price product before beginning mass production.
I am impressed with your video presentation and the running quality of your F unit with the set of passenger cars. I'm not into keeping track of the manufacturers passenger cars that are being made but the Menards F unit in Santa Fe classic Warbonnet and the passenger car consist sure reminds me of Athearn HO ca. 1959. Old heads will remember Athearn and their affordable line of nicely detailed generic products in the Yellow Box which included a Santa Fe Warbonnet F7 (albeit powered by their Hi-F (rubber band) drive and streamlined passenger cars that look a lot like the ones you are running with your Menards F unit. For me, a blast from the past, even though the train is O gauge instead of HO.
Regardless, your video took me on a trip back down my right-of-way of memories as a teenage train nut who passed milepost thirteen on July 4, 1959. No birthday cake, candles, not even a el cheapo Athearn box car kit b-day gift. My step-dad had just relocated the family from Texas to Florida and he was unemployed at the time. Frank Sanatra sang it best: "That's Life!"
That said, thank you for sharing your video with all members who are lucky to be part of the O Gauge Railroading gang!
Joe
Thanks Joe. This has been a fun project.
Steve
Just a quick note on my experience so far. I got my loco delivered to my home this past Thursday. I opened it up immediately. Putting it on the powered track and lights and sound work. So I opened up the remote to put the 3 AAA batteries in and found no evidence of the negative battery clips ever being installed. Remote is useless without negative battery terminals. So I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address in the original post in this topic that we were asked to send feedback to. I also sent a similar private forum message to Mark. I included my personal e-mail address and phone number. No response so I followed the returns link in the e-mail receipt from Menard’s. It took me to a web page where I had to fill out a contact form. I filled out the form and got a confirmation from the web site that my request was received. No response from that either. Can you only do a return to Menard’s at a store? Not going to drive 1000 miles to return this. It would be nice if I could get a replacement remote but if not possible at least a return RMA.No such luck. I’ll give it a week and if nothing I’ll call my credit card company. So unfortunately my experience so far hasn’t been as positive as others.
@ChooChoo1972 posted:Just a quick note on my experience so far. I got my loco delivered to my home this past Thursday. I opened it up immediately. Putting it on the powered track and lights and sound work. So I opened up the remote to put the 3 AAA batteries in and found no evidence of the negative battery clips ever being installed. Remote is useless without negative battery terminals. So I sent an e-mail to the e-mail address in the original post in this topic that we were asked to send feedback to. I also sent a similar private forum message to Mark. I included my personal e-mail address and phone number. No response so I followed the returns link in the e-mail receipt from Menard’s. It took me to a web page where I had to fill out a contact form. I filled out the form and got a confirmation from the web site that my request was received. No response from that either. Can you only do a return to Menard’s at a store? Not going to drive 1000 miles to return this. It would be nice if I could get a replacement remote but if not possible at least a return RMA.No such luck. I’ll give it a week and if nothing I’ll call my credit card company. So unfortunately my experience so far hasn’t been as positive as others.
If they can't replace the remote and you still want to keep it here is another alternative:
https://www.amazon.com/Youlian...626784844&sr=8-6
John
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That's at least two remotes without terminals. No quick fix for this. Imagine the reaction of child opening a Christmas present to find this beautiful engine only to find it non operational due to a faulty controller. That's the best reason for a conventional-remote switch.
Also I find the scuff marks on the roof odd. Could they be the result off a chemical reaction between the paint and the Styrofoam packaging, or could the paint not be fully cured when packaged?
@coach joe posted:That's at least two remotes without terminals. No quick fix for this. Imagine the reaction of child opening a Christmas present to find this beautiful engine only to find it non operational due to a faulty controller. That's the best reason for a conventional-remote switch.
Also I find the scuff marks on the roof odd. Could they be the result off a chemical reaction between the paint and the Styrofoam packaging, or could the paint not be fully cured when packaged?
Assuming they already have something in conventional.
The scuffing is from friction. Even in the molded blister packaging, the model can shift a bit in transit. Plus the layer of paint isn't all that thick.
That's why some companies wrap the model in a thin barrier material to mitigate the issue and make it easier to remove from the packaging.
Rusty
@coach joe posted:Also I find the scuff marks on the roof odd. Could they be the result off a chemical reaction between the paint and the Styrofoam packaging, or could the paint not be fully cured when packaged?
That's what I think since everyone has the scuff marks. I put it in and out of the packaging every day and it doesn't scuff. Probably a production deadline they had to meet at the plant.
John
@coach joe posted:That's at least two remotes without terminals. No quick fix for this. Imagine the reaction of child opening a Christmas present to find this beautiful engine only to find it non operational due to a faulty controller. That's the best reason for a conventional-remote switch.
Also I find the scuff marks on the roof odd. Could they be the result off a chemical reaction between the paint and the Styrofoam packaging, or could the paint not be fully cured when packaged?
Joe, I was thinking the same thing about the kid on Christmas morning. In the other case of the person who didn't have the negative terminals installed do you know if Menards ever got back to them? So far I have received nothing but radio silence.
