NEW DCS Remote

Just an item number change, nothing to get excited about. Same remote, same function, different ID number when ordering. http://www.rayman4449.com/MTH/...stem-Parts-Power.htm

Different parts inside.

David Minarik posted:

Different parts inside.

Is it more advanced in any way? Just went with what parts they could get?

An email rec'd from Steve Nelson, this AM, states, "The next release of the remote... will have some significant changes to the internal components."  However, no details are provided.

Enquiring minds want to know!

thought they were doing away with the physical remotes when parts were no longer available? this is good to hear as I like the remotes. 

Interesting, I wonder what was changed.

I don't have any idea what was changed - expecting we will find out at York.......

So if the remotes will soon not be available new from MTH assume that means to use DCS will have to do so with a phone or tablet?

I want a DCS remote that has a touch pad and whistle slider like the legacy remote has. And get rid of that thumb wheel, change it to a dial. 

Trainlover9943 posted:

I want a DCS remote that has a touch pad and whistle slider like the legacy remote has. And get rid of that thumb wheel, change it to a dial. 

The "dial" is the way to go, it's more intuitive for old operating people... like me.

Could this mean the possibility of a new TIU as well in the near future?  With remotes going obsolete, will MTH integrate the wifi module in the TIU or perhaps develop a new piece of hardware that does something different?  

Can you imagine a new person going to the hobby shop to buy DCS for a few hundred, only to find out they have to spend another $150 on a wifi module as well because DCS does not come with a remote?

Ron

Hard to believe them dropping the remote only to add another development project to the hopper.

My belief is that having only WiFi access will impact the market for MTH.  My sense is there's enough people that have no interest or desire to run their trains with their phone, and will want a dedicated remote. 

Note that Lionel, even with the BlueTooth equipped product, still has a dedicated remote for all their products.  In the case of the LC and the older LC+ products, they came with their own remote.  You can also run with the Universal Remote and newer ones with BlueTooth.  In the case of the LC+ 2.0, they're now compatible with TMCC, so anyone with TMCC or Legacy has a working remote.  In addition, you can also run new Legacy and LC+ 2.0 with BlueTooth, the Universal Remote, or the TMCC/Legacy command system.  In my view, Lionel is filling all the holes as far as the command operation, dropping the only physical remote leaves MTH at a disadvantage.

Ron045 posted:

Could this mean the possibility of a new TIU as well in the near future?  With remotes going obsolete, will MTH integrate the wifi module in the TIU or perhaps develop a new piece of hardware that does something different?  

Can you imagine a new person going to the hobby shop to buy DCS for a few hundred, only to find out they have to spend another $150 on a wifi module as well because DCS does not come with a remote?

Ron

The 'new' DCS package comes with a TIU and a WIU. 

It is the same price as the 'old' DCS package that came with a TIU and remote.

Ron045 posted:

Can you imagine a new person going to the hobby shop to buy DCS for a few hundred, only to find out they have to spend another $150 on a wifi module as well because DCS does not come with a remote?

 

No, I think you missed the catalogs on how they are selling these. The old way was they bundled a remote and  a TIU as a package. (TIU roughly $220, Remote for $150, total roughly $350 with bundle savings) Now, they bundle a TIU and Wireless module- same price. You aren't wrong in that this is a difference as the old way, you got a complete set and could run trains, now, they assume you have a smartphone or tablet you are willing to use to run trains. Again, since I joined this hobby roughly 2 years ago, a DCS setup (TIU+Remote) sold for about $315-$399 depending on who the dealer was and how cut throat they wanted to be on pricing. Now, the TIU+Wireless bundle is about the same exact pricing. Example is Mario's has the bundle for $324. Make no mistake, it's a change, but it's not "buy DCS for a few hundred, only to find out they have to spend another $150 on a wifi module".

DCS is still tiered:

You have the IR commander set- roughly $60- only runs 1 train and ID must be set to 1- aka factory defaults.

The wireless explorer- $135- runs up to 3 DCS trains but only 1 track output, but does have limitations compared to full blown DCS wifi equipped TIU. In other words, this is better than the IR commander, but way, way less than a full featured DCS. Just enough to annoy you once you figure that out. Also- requires a smartphone or tablet. Not the craziest assumption to expect in todays society but definitely geared for the smartphone carrying generation.

Full blown DCS (TIU with either remote or Wifi) - $350 median price for the "bundle" At least until they run out again- you have a choice, buy a TIU with a remote, or buy it with Wifi, or, get both for an additional $150

The pricing hasn't really changed IMO. What changed was beginning to bundle TIU+Wifi, and the cause or push was the lack of remotes for a while, and then I believe (caution, opinion) the desire to open the market to the smart phone/tablet generation. 

They just have to figure out how to cable it up and get the WiFi running.   Judging from many of the posts here, that's going to be a challenge for a computer novice.

I have issues with the app as it is currently. thier are things that it does well and things that still need work. like cloning the tablets just as you would the old remotes. I cant seem to get that feature to work. the app brought me back to mth locomotives again and then one day I feel in love with there remote all over again. fits is one hand nicley when operating and frees up my other hand to use my uncoupling tool.  I at first did not like the thumb wheel,but now I love it. It works well as far as feel when running trains at slow speed. for example with dcs speed control one wheel click is 1smph, five wheel clicks is 5 smph.  I have both lionel legacy and dcs. I recenty started playng more with my legacy remote to try out the brake slider for locomotive rpm notiching. I agree dcs could use a slide button to quill the whistle although I do not think the design would allow it though. I needed a few more mth remotes for operating sessions I plan to have some day with others on my future layout. so I for one am glad they are still able to find parts to produce them.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

My belief is that having only WiFi access will impact the market for MTH.  My sense is there's enough people that have no interest or desire to run their trains with their phone, and will want a dedicated remote. 

Exactly!  I couldn't agree more with this statement! (Count me in the 'likes the remote much better than the app' camp!)

Guess I better get to ordering one (or two) of the new remotes while they can be had. 

From the e mail I received from my dealer once these are gone there will be no more remotes made. A huge step back words in my opinion. Those tablets and phones aren't cheap even if you buy them used. As for me I do not own either.

feet posted:

Those tablets and phones aren't cheap even if you buy them used. As for me I do not own either.

I'm not a proponent of running trains with a phone.  But YES, phones ARE cheap.  You can buy a brand new one for $25.  You do not have to activate it as a phone and do not need to pay for monthly service either.  Just turn it on and find your MTH Wifi network.

https://shop.tracfone.com/shop...lcatel-tcl-a1-a501dl

Having Fun... With a remote.

Ron

Ron045 posted:

feet posted:

Those tablets and phones aren't cheap even if you buy them used. As for me I do not own either.

I'm not a proponent of running trains with a phone.  But YES, phones ARE cheap.  You can buy a brand new one for $25.  You do not have to activate it as a phone and do not need to pay for monthly service either.  Just turn it on and find your MTH Wifi network.

https://shop.tracfone.com/shop...lcatel-tcl-a1-a501dl

Having Fun... With a remote.

Ron

Yes there are cheap phones but the screens on those are to small for my liking. I might take another look as this may have changed.

Don't forget small tablets such as an Amazon Fire or iPad mini and a bunch of other cheap Android tablets. if you would like a bit larger screen

I model in O Gauge because it replicates the real thing in so many ways.  You can ridicule the 3rd rail but, in my 'umble opinion, nothing else in modelling comes as close.

With the cars properly weighted, the layout and the floor shakes, when a train passes; with the volume set at an authentic level, it sounds like a train; and the equipment is generally much more durable than any of the smaller gauges.  When I hired out on the CNW, in the summer of '69, I was told, "Kid, there's nothing your can break here on the railroad."  And, I found that to be true, save in the event of a major derailment or wreck.  If the hitch doesn't make, hit it again - HARDER.  In O Gauge, there's none of the flimsiness of HO or N, where a sneeze will put the featherweight cars in the ditch.  Hit 'em harder, the pin will drop or you'll shop the car - everything's fixable with real tools and you can see to do it without an electron microscope.

I've run many trains, in my time, and none of them were controlled with some geeky "smartphone" or "tablet".  Power was controlled with a throttle and air brakes with handles, both independent and automatic.  If you wanted more of anything, you pulled the handle toward you; if you wanted less, you pushed the handle away from you.  You used your entire hand, not your pinkie.  MTH may have relied on the thumbwheel in order to avoid patent infringement but Lionel's dial is a much better and more realistic control.  If Lionel could arrange to control MTH equipment through the DCS system, as MTH is able to control TMCC/Legacy equipment, they'd get my money.

Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

I model in O Gauge because it replicates the real thing in so many ways.  You can ridicule the 3rd rail but, in my 'umble opinion, nothing else in modelling comes as close.

With the cars properly weighted, the layout and the floor shakes, when a train passes; with the volume set at an authentic level, it sounds like a train; and the equipment is generally much more durable than any of the smaller gauges.  When I hired out on the CNW, in the summer of '69, I was told, "Kid, there's nothing your can break here on the railroad."  And, I found that to be true, save in the event of a major derailment or wreck.  If the hitch doesn't make, hit it again - HARDER.  In O Gauge, there's none of the flimsiness of HO or N, where a sneeze will put the featherweight cars in the ditch.  Hit 'em harder, the pin will drop or you'll shop the car - everything's fixable with real tools and you can see to do it without an electron microscope.

I've run many trains, in my time, and none of them were controlled with some geeky "smartphone" or "tablet".  Power was controlled with a throttle and air brakes with handles, both independent and automatic.  If you wanted more of anything, you pulled the handle toward you; if you wanted less, you pushed the handle away from you.  You used your entire hand, not your pinkie.  MTH may have relied on the thumbwheel in order to avoid patent infringement but Lionel's dial is a much better and more realistic control.  If Lionel could arrange to control MTH equipment through the DCS system, as MTH is able to control TMCC/Legacy equipment, they'd get my money.

Well that's something I haven't heard in many a year!  "controlled with some geeky "smartphone" or "tablet"."   Emphasis mine.    MTH may be shooting themselves in the foot  with a small and diminishing segment of their customers but all things come to an end.

Jetguy posted:

 

The pricing hasn't really changed IMO. What changed was beginning to bundle TIU+Wifi, and the cause or push was the lack of remotes for a while, and then I believe (caution, opinion) the desire to open the market to the smart phone/tablet generation. 

We regularly run on DCS layouts having two or three TIU's. If MTH goes all in Wi-Fi he requires purchasing a Wi-Fi unit for each individual TIU which defeats the simplicity of Super mode. And that doesn't even begin talking about the issue being able to run trains in the dark with the remote simply by feel rather than the app where you constantly have to look at it to see what you are touching. All they needed to do was have a separate select button rather than using the Thumb wheel for two functions on the remote. 

Guess I better order a remote.  Kinda stinks they are going away - it's a bit of a pain to have to look at my tablet for the controls - much more convenient to do it by feel and watch the trains.

- Greg

One thing missing from the MTH Wi-Fi is the ability to update TIU and remote software.  It would be great to not have to hold down the button on the remote for 10 minutes only to have the update fail so you get to start over, again.

I’m glad they will have another remote but for older people honestly once hooked up the WiFi unit with a tablet is best in my opinion. The Bluetooth for Lionel is horrible and so is their WiFi app. I like the blue legacy remote  cab2 better than the main legacy remote. On the dcs WiFi tablet it’s so much easier to navigate to options and lash ups instead of that tiny screen on dcs remote.

BobbyD posted:

Jetguy posted:

 

The pricing hasn't really changed IMO. What changed was beginning to bundle TIU+Wifi, and the cause or push was the lack of remotes for a while, and then I believe (caution, opinion) the desire to open the market to the smart phone/tablet generation. 

We regularly run on DCS layouts having two or three TIU's. If MTH goes all in Wi-Fi he requires purchasing a Wi-Fi unit for each individual TIU which defeats the simplicity of Super mode. And that doesn't even begin talking about the issue being able to run trains in the dark with the remote simply by feel rather than the app where you constantly have to look at it to see what you are touching. All they needed to do was have a separate select button rather than using the Thumb wheel for two functions on the remote. 

I don't understand why you say it "defeats the simplicity of Super mode"   At the NJ Hi-Railers we now have 7 TIU/WIUs.  Super mode is set and the TIU's are connected to the house WiFi system.  You don't have to worry about which TIU/WIU you use.  The app finds them all.

And "issue being able to run trains in the dark"   The phone/tablets have a lighted screen!!!   You can see them in the dark.

I have got pretty use to the App at this point. Unless MTH did a whole redesign of the remote without the thumb wheel and a bigger display screen I probably wouldn't have much interest in it.  

The whole MTH ditching the remote for app is why I just went to DCC when I was thinking about the future of my layout for upgradability of the locomotives.  TMCC upgrades may not be around for much longer, so that left PS3 or DCC.  Since I won't use a phone or tablet to control my trains that turned me to DCC over PS3 for upgrades because DCS will no longer have a remote, but all the major DCC command systems have remotes.  That and I've been having some major issues with smart phones and tablets as of late that's making what to throw them all out the window for what little I do use them for and just back to a flip phone.

"TMCC upgrades may not be around for much longer, so that left PS3 or DCC."

"...may not be around..."  I'm not familiar with that.  Could you please cite a reputable source?

I believe your information is wrong and so is your conclusion.

Flip phones are coming back, so you're in luck!

What do you all do with vision line parts as a lot of parts are no longer made for big boys etc. or a lot of engines they made. Do you just put a generic tmcc board in them? At least mth is available to upgrade all their engines.

Jason gartner posted:

What do you all do with vision line parts as a lot of parts are no longer made for big boys etc. or a lot of engines they made. Do you just put a generic tmcc board in them? At least mth is available to upgrade all their engines.

And that is what upsets me about Lionel. You pay  top dollar for these engines and after a few short years no parts for them. Now we have $2000.00 shelf queens. Looks like MTH will get my business until this changes.

rthomps posted:

"TMCC upgrades may not be around for much longer, so that left PS3 or DCC."

"...may not be around..."  I'm not familiar with that.  Could you please cite a reputable source?

I believe your information is wrong and so is your conclusion.

Considering Lionel stopped selling ERR upgrades due to lack of components for a while, which we got a reprieve from thanks to the hard work of 3rd Rail.  And then Scott has said this will only continue as long as they can find replacement parts, which has been an ongoing issue for TMCC (And even Legacy boards.  Lionel has had to redesign the boards in the locomotives for this very reason.)  Even on their website he says:

"Future Availability: You never know when an important component is discontinued by the component manufacturer. If this happens it can delay or cause the product line to be discontinued."

Don't know how more reputable a source can be then from the horse's mouth.  So my conclusion is based on the long game as I still hopefully have many more decades of operating my trains.

P.S.  I did say "may be" not "will be."  There is a difference.  I do very much hope TMCC upgrades will be around a long time.

Lionel didn't stop selling ERR upgrades due to a lack of components, they stated it was because they weren't making sufficient profit margin.  Coupled with the fact that both Jon Z. and Ken at ERR were leaving, there was nobody to mind the store.

AFAIK, there aren't any changes to the boards that 3rd Rail is selling and the old ERR product.  I've put the Cruise Commander boards side by side, and I sure don't see any differences.  All the active parts appear to be the same and still available through normal distribution channels. 

The sound boards are a derivative of the RailSounds Lite board used in all Legacy products, so if parts on that board go obsolete, you can be sure that Lionel will be pretty quick to redesign it to continue production of their own product line!

Let's take this statement you reference...

"Future Availability: You never know when an important component is discontinued by the component manufacturer. If this happens it can delay or cause the product line to be discontinued."

This is no surprise, if a major part used in any of the older stuff truly caused it to be no longer buildable, I suspect it's likely they might discontinue the product.

With all that said, I keep a few spare Cruise Commander and Cruise Commander M kits around, just in case. 

sinclair posted:

The whole MTH ditching the remote for app is why I just went to DCC when I was thinking about the future of my layout for upgradability of the locomotives.  TMCC upgrades may not be around for much longer, so that left PS3 or DCC.  Since I won't use a phone or tablet to control my trains that turned me to DCC over PS3 for upgrades because DCS will no longer have a remote, but all the major DCC command systems have remotes.  That and I've been having some major issues with smart phones and tablets as of late that's making what to throw them all out the window for what little I do use them for and just back to a flip phone.

You know that PS3 engines can be run on DCC without any modification.

I like the thumbwheel and have no desire to run my train with my phone.

Dennis

H1000 posted:

You know that PS3 engines can be run on DCC without any modification.

That is how I run my PS3 locomotives.  But a DCC upgrade kit is almost half the price of a PS3 upgrade kit.