Looking for Drive Gear Shaft for TMCC Sharks

So this is from a 4 wheel truck. Are these different trucks from various engines using different gear sets? I am constantly amazed at how each product has uniquely different parts...no or little sharing of parts.

These are 4-wheel trucks.  I've seen at least half a dozen different truck designs for Lionel diesels, I'm not sure how many models used this gear set.  This is, of course, one of the truck designs that requires you to disassemble the entire truck to remove it.  I have a whole bag of screws.  The bummer is, I assembled it all after using the retaining compound and I thought I was done.  I was looking for the binding in the other gears cleaning everything.  I finally realized that something was amiss with the drive gear and with close examination I found the crack in the brass gear.

@cjack welcome to the era of Chinese low bidder limited runs.  The fun is just beginning.  By the time it's over, we'll all be cannibals!!  

This particular truck design must not have been a winner, Lionel's parts department lists the RF16 power trucks as being "UNAVAILABLE".  I become a bigger fan of MTH with every passing day.

Rapid Transit Holmes posted:

This particular truck design must not have been a winner, Lionel's parts department lists the RF16 power trucks as being "UNAVAILABLE".  I become a bigger fan of MTH with every passing day.

Where does MTH have their stuff manufacturered?

Did Lionel change the truck shaft design when they rereleased these locomotives in LEGACY back in 2014?

cjack posted:

Where does MTH have their stuff manufacturered?

China.  But supposedly they have their own factory (can you "own" anything in China?), and they are very conservative when it comes to design changes.  They also use one basic truck block design.  I remember MTH took some criticism about 15 yrs ago when they switched their "scale" F3 to a RailKing truck block with a slightly shorter wheelbase.

The Baldwin B-B is a long-wheelbase truck.  I'm sure if Lionel used their EMD truck block on the Sharks they would have been criticized roundly.  That being said, why they wouldn't use the same intermediate shaft on all of these is a question that only Lionel can answer.

I happen to like back-drivable gears.  Depending on how much John's customer is willing to spend, if the pre-Legacy part is not available it might be possible to use LionDrive motors and truck blocks from the newer model.

Ted S posted:

cjack posted:

Where does MTH have their stuff manufacturered?

China.  But supposedly they have their own factory (can you "own" anything in China?), and they are very conservative when it comes to design changes.  They also use one basic truck block design.  I remember MTH took some criticism about 15 yrs ago when they switched their "scale" F3 to a RailKing truck block with a slightly shorter wheelbase.

The Baldwin B-B is a long-wheelbase truck.  I'm sure if Lionel used their EMD truck block on the Sharks they would have been criticized roundly.  That being said, why they wouldn't use the same intermediate shaft on all of these is a question that only Lionel can answer.

I happen to like back-drivable gears.  Depending on how much John's customer is willing to spend, if the pre-Legacy part is not available it might be possible to use LionDrive motors and truck blocks from the newer model.

Most of their stuff yes. MTH Premier steam locomotives are currently and have always been made in South Korea.

Ted S posted:

I happen to like back-drivable gears.  Depending on how much John's customer is willing to spend, if the pre-Legacy part is not available it might be possible to use LionDrive motors and truck blocks from the newer model.

This happens to be mine, and I'm not ready to spend a ton of money!  In addition, the Legacy trucks are a totally different design and wouldn't work in the chassis in any case.

Will a whole new truck assembly fit the budget?  It's $38 but maybe you can wait for the sale...

That's probably where I'm going.   I was hoping to find the bad gear, but for the dealer price, I think the truck is the way to go.

Well John, if you enjoy disassembling the truck and want to be cheap about it you could probably just go order this for $8. 

$4 if you wait a couple of weeks or so.

Steims, you sure know your way around the LIONEL parts website.

And what was the search tip you shared when more than 500 hits occur during a search?

Nice, how did you find that one? 

You don't realize, in order to mount the motor on that complete truck, you have to completely disassemble it anyway!  So, I think I'll go for the gear.

Where did you get that picture?

GRJ, I think Steims is a savant when it comes to navigating LIONEL's parts website--he's helped me in the past when I'd thrown in the towel.

He must be, I found the power truck, but I have no idea how he unearthed that drive gearshaft!

I forgot to mention, I don't enjoy disassembling the truck, but in order to remove the motor, you have to blow it up.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice, how did you find that one? 

You don't realize, in order to mount the motor on that complete truck, you have to completely disassemble it anyway!  So, I think I'll go for the gear.

Where did you get that picture?

Looks like those product supplement pictures. 

cjack posted:

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Nice, how did you find that one? 

You don't realize, in order to mount the motor on that complete truck, you have to completely disassemble it anyway!  So, I think I'll go for the gear.

Where did you get that picture?

Looks like those product supplement pictures. 

First off GRJ you did not do us any favors by not listing a Lionel product number (you of all people).     I Googled Lionel Sharknose TMCC and got into some 6-1453# series.  I did a Lionel Product search and no hits. I looked up that number series in my 2013 Greenberg Guide and those don't exist.  I did a Lionel parts search with 14533 and that is where I found the truck assembly.  I could tell you were not thrilled with paying $38 for the truck so I kept digging.  I did look for manuals for the 14533 and found one for this AA set.  It had the year printed in the manual so I knew it was 2003 vintage.  I then went to the supplements looking for a truck breakdown.  The exploded view is from Supplement 47 which is 2004.  I found the picture and it listed the part number. 

I'm just glad I could assist GRJ for all the times he has dug me out of holes that I get in.  If anyone is keeping score.... GRJ 117, Steims 1.

I spent quite a bit of time in one of those 6 wheel trucks for a Chessie U30C.  Without the exploded view I was stumped for a long time on how to get inside the truck.  I do recall that particular shaft and challenges with reassembly.  My issue was the thrust washer on that the worm gear (on motor) rides in.  The truck is a robust design but it is a challenge to work on. 

I don't know about robust, otherwise I wouldn't be dealing with a split gear!

It's not so much that I really mind paying for the whole truck, it just bothers me that I have to replace the whole truck for one little gear.

The problem with putting these back together is you have to get all the sleeve bearings aligned and then stuff the motor down on them without moving them.  I remember years ago when I first encountered one of these truck designs.  I couldn't believe you had to disassemble the truck to get it off the locomotive after working with the MTH and Williams trucks where one screw did the job! 

Sorry about the item number, that isn't like me to omit that.  It's 6-14533 BTW.

Steims, incredible tale of determination on your part and it is very fitting that the beneficiary of your efforts is GRJ--well done, indeed.

It's fantastic the help you can get sometimes on these forums!  How many has GRJ helped over the years? - Countless including myself.  Glad Steims was able to help him.

I think I have one of these gears some where in the parts stash.  I recall it wasn't fun changing out the couple I've done for folks.

Jim

What's even more sad is after years of replacing split engineering plastic gears, we now also have to worry about metal gears doing the same thing.........

I was a bit surprised that the brass gear was split, I've seen that a couple of times, but not that often.

After you get the new gear and shaft assembly can you pull the split gear off and compare it to some of the postwar gears. Is there a chance that an older one might match? It would be too good if one did.

Since it appears that I can get the gear shaft for peanuts, that seems to be the way to go. 

Looking at these two gears they do not look the same.  Maybe it is the angle

The Lionel picture seems distorted.  There has to be a gear on the right end of that shaft.

The only difference I noticed is the bearings. Johns appears to have cutouts.

Doug

Hard to tell from the picture, if the gears were right, the brass gear is easily pulled and use the old bearings.  Those may just be oriented so you can't see the cutouts.

Looks like the part in the Lionel picture needs to be rotated to do a proper comparison.

Jan

The majority of bearings don't have the cutouts, just a flat. While they can be swappd out it would easier to just get the correct gearset.

Pete

Pete, that's only if the correct gear shaft is still available.   There is no pictorial for the Sharks, so it's not clear if that individual part is available.

@gunrunnerjohn how did you get the truck assembly apart?

Oh geeze Louise there is a screw under the plastic insulator!

@rplst8 posted:

@gunrunnerjohn how did you get the truck assembly apart?

Not easily, this is the Lionel "puzzle" truck.   I see you found one of the puzzles.