Menards needs to either plate the body or paint the side frames, pilot skirt and the fuel tank/frame. Plated trucks/pilot/fuel tank with a painted silver body just does not look right. I vote for plate the silver areas of the shell. That would really make it SPARKLE when running under a lighted Christmas tree. AD
Lionel notched the pilot on later F3's to resolve the shorting issue when entering a grade.
@artfull dodger posted:Menards needs to either plate the body or paint the side frames, pilot skirt and the fuel tank/frame. Plated trucks/pilot/fuel tank with a painted silver body just does not look right. I vote for plate the silver areas of the shell. That would really make it SPARKLE when running under a lighted Christmas tree. AD
I have a 1.0 and I sprayed the frames with dullkote. I may do the rest of the shiny chrome one day.
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I didn't get mine yet, but it sounds like there is little or no difference between version 2 and version 3.
I'll see when I get it.
I paired version 1 with an MTH B unit.
John
That helps it blend in better. I would just respray the side frames, front skirt and the fuel tank with Testors silver in a rattle can. Just like refinishing a set off a 2343 F3. It will be interesting to see what the final full production version will be, if they ever go to full production past these teaser runs. My guess we will see full production, maybe even a boxed starter set, for Christmas 2022 selling season. Time will tell. AD
I picked up mine yesterday at the local Menards store…along with the free lighted panel truck…and along with a Menardsville Depot! Well they were having a 15% off sale on anything you could get in a brown shopping bag…what’s a guy supposed to do? 🤪🙀
Anyway…did a cursory inspection after unboxing and other than a very minor smudge…everything appeared to be OK. Placed it in the track, powered it up and it ran fine both forward and back. Checked the sounds…they all worked…although the horn sounds are a bit poor. I did find one issue…when the engine was moving away from me, I noticed the left rear wheel was wobbly and upon further inspection, it appeared as though that axle was bent. Actually, probably wouldn’t have noticed it if there had been cars behind the engine. Tried to make a correction, think it helped a little…but decided not to put a lot of pressure on it and keep from snapping something off. Checked the couplers manually and they operated fine. Today I did paint the side frames and couplers with a silver spray paint…IMHO, I think it improves the look instead having them with a chrome appearance?
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FedEx was supposed to deliver mine yesterday, January 4th.
But... As of January 6th, it is stuck somewhere in Minnesota with NO estimated arrival date. 
As of January 7th, it's somewhere in Nebraska with still no estimated arrival date.
Received my Beta 3 engine from Menards today. Out of the packaging overall appearance is good, no paint blems. In testing the engine runs in reverse, forward on the control, engine travels backwards, reverse on the control, engine travels forward. Headlight and tail light also reversed.
Horn control from the handheld, has been corrected. Horn operates as long as the button is depressed. A Beta 1 engine when operated with the Beta 3 handheld blows the horn as long as the horn button is held down. The horn operation change was made in the handheld control. No wobble in operation, all wheels run true.
The testing continues.
@choochoopaul posted:Received my Beta 3 engine from Menards today. Out of the packaging overall appearance is good, no paint blems. In testing the engine runs in reverse, forward on the control, engine travels backwards, reverse on the control, engine travels forward. Headlight and tail light also reversed.
Horn control from the handheld, has been corrected. Horn operates as long as the button is depressed. A Beta 1 engine when operated with the Beta 3 handheld blows the horn as long as the horn button is held down. The horn operation change was made in the handheld control. No wobble in operation, all wheels run true.
The testing continues.
Thanks Paul, what about coupler height?
Steve
Steve,
Yes the couplers sag both in front and rear. About .100 each.
@PRRick posted:Seems like Menards should be talking to you if they're really interested in improving!
Hi Rick,
The instructions in the ad to purchase Beta 3.0 are to send all feedback to
guest@menard-inc.com
I sent them mine both good and bad.
@choochoopaul posted:"Horn control from the handheld, has been corrected. Horn operates as long as the button is depressed." "The horn operation change was made in the handheld control."
How does the "3" horn sound?
@choochoopaul posted:Received my Beta 3 engine from Menards today. Out of the packaging overall appearance is good, no paint blems. In testing the engine runs in reverse, forward on the control, engine travels backwards, reverse on the control, engine travels forward. Headlight and tail light also reversed.
Horn control from the handheld, has been corrected. Horn operates as long as the button is depressed. A Beta 1 engine when operated with the Beta 3 handheld blows the horn as long as the horn button is held down. The horn operation change was made in the handheld control. No wobble in operation, all wheels run true.
The testing continues.
That's interesting. I wonder if v1.0 handheld can be modified?
Paul, I really like your layout! The background, details, even the lighting in the room. Do you have more pictures?
@Sam Jumper posted:
Paul, I really like your layout! The background, details, even the lighting in the room. Do you have more pictures?
Hi Sam…thanks for the compliment…very much appreciated. I do have one other photo of the Menards Santa Fe version 3.0 in a different location on my layout and co-mingling with a couple of steamers…also shows some of the downtown area in the background.
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I got mine today. I have all three.
I actually hadn't tested version 2 yet. So I tested both.
Version 2: Horn sounds anemic, but at least it blows steadily unlike version 1
Version 3: Horn is identical to version 2
Version 2: Jack rabbit starts and stops on version 1 were eliminated. Nice and smooth now.
Version 3: Momentum is same as version 2
Versions 1 & 2: Couplers work fairly well
Version 3: Couplers are an abomination and need to be forced open and forced closed to the point where they will probably break trying to do so.
Quality Control on versions 1 & 2 on mine were good.
Quality Control on version 3 on mine were not so good. Loco doesn't always synch with remote. Something is rattling and falling about inside the chassis (Haven't opened it to see what it is yet)
Does anyone have any idea why they even bothered with a version 3 ?? There is no difference between it and version 2 except they ruined the couplers. I think I am done with beta testing these.
John
@Craftech posted:Does anyone have any idea why they even bothered with a version 3 ?? There is no difference between it and version 2 except they ruined the couplers. I think I am done with beta testing these.
John
Probably for the builder to clear the benches before Chinese New Year.
Rusty
@Craftech posted:Does anyone have any idea why they even bothered with a version 3 ?? There is no difference between it and version 2 except they ruined the couplers. I think I am done with beta testing these.
John
My version 3 is fine. It seems like the quality control is suspect. Time to ride the quality control of the finished product. It’s not Beta manufacturing if people are buying them. It’s full on production.
@ChiTown Steve posted:My version 3 is fine. It seems like the quality control is suspect. Time to ride the quality control of the finished product. It’s not Beta manufacturing if people are buying them. It’s full on production.
Do you have version 2? I can't see any difference (except version 3 has really bad couplers)
That's a downgrade.
John
@Jim R. posted:Agreed. Cow catcher has never been used for diesels. The term was a 19th century phrase that referred to heavy-sloped pilots that indeed had livestock and wildlife in mind. Diesel pilots without the plows? Nope. In fact, this is the first time I have heard any hobbyist on this forum refer to a typical diesel pilot as a cow catcher.
You never know. You might wake up one morning and find a cow on your pilot.
Alan
@Craftech posted:Do you have version 2? I can't see any difference (except version 3 has really bad couplers)
That's a downgrade.
John
I didn’t buy version 2, only 3. My couplers are fine. My engine period is fine as far as build quality.
Someone else had the same issue with the couplers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQoVll2pevA
Around 8:40
John
@ajzend posted:You never know. You might wake up one morning and find a cow on your pilot.
Alan
More likely hamburger...
Rusty
@Craftech posted:Someone else had the same issue with the couplers:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQoVll2pevA
Around 8:40
John
Can confirm, he's a pretty cool guy 
and also the couplers are a bit better free some more operations, but still to stiff to do any switching on the layout.
Some examples of v.1 and v.2 had battery boxes that didn't make good contact with the batteries in the remote. Any experience whether they've improved the reliability of that aspect of the product?
@Landsteiner posted:Some examples of v.1 and v.2 had battery boxes that didn't make good contact with the batteries in the remote. Any experience whether they've improved the reliability of that aspect of the product?
Those work fine on versions 2 & 3.
John
@RSJB18 posted:That's interesting. I wonder if v1.0 handheld can be modified?
Bob,
I took the remote from version 3 apart and compared it to version 1. I don't see a difference, but there is an IC with no markings on it on both of them. Maybe I can take a closer look at the two printed circuits.
I did try the version 3 remote on the version 1 loco. The horn blew steadily so something is different in the remote.
Maybe the push button micro switch is different?
John
They will definitely have to improve on the horn sound before I would pull the trigger on a full production model based on the videos I’ve seen.
@Craftech posted:Bob,
I took the remote from version 3 apart and compared it to version 1. I don't see a difference, but there is an IC with no markings on it on both of them. Maybe I can take a closer look at the two printed circuits.
I did try the version 3 remote on the version 1 loco. The horn blew steadily so something is different in the remote.
Maybe the push button micro switch is different?
John
Most likely they changed the firmware in the remote. That IC is most likely a PIC containing the firmware.
That is also the least expensive thing to change, so it makes the most sense from an engineering/manufacturing standpoint.
I have not been able to get any of the 3 versions since they sold out so fast. I admire Menard's for doing this type of research before locking in on a full production run. I don't remember any other model railroad manufacturer doing this. I would like to see the front side screens painted red filling in that noticeable gap. Are these engines similar to Lionel Lionchief engines with the chassis mounted switch allowing the user to opt for conventional operation or using the remote? I would venture a guess that we might see a production run for Christmas 2022.
@Allegheny48 posted:. I admire Menard's for doing this type of research before locking in on a full production run. I don't remember any other model railroad manufacturer doing this.
Actually, Lionel did this with the RS11/C420 chassis (Maddox send Cab 1’s and TMCC gear with), and Weaver did it with at least the U25B. In these two cases that I know of for sure, it was all given for free in exchange for the user feedback. It’s rather uncommon for a manufacturer to actually sell preproduction units AND expect the buyers to deliver feedback.
@Sam Jumper posted:In these two cases that I know of for sure, it was all given for free in exchange for the user feedback. It’s rather uncommon for a manufacturer to actually sell preproduction units AND expect the buyers to deliver feedback.
How many units were distributed and how did they select the the people who received the free units. I get free demos of equipment all the time but I never get to keep them for free, sometimes I get the option to purchase the demo equipment instead of it being returned.
@Allegheny48 posted:I have not been able to get any of the 3 versions since they sold out so fast. I admire Menard's for doing this type of research before locking in on a full production run. I don't remember any other model railroad manufacturer doing this. I would like to see the front side screens painted red filling in that noticeable gap. Are these engines similar to Lionel Lionchief engines with the chassis mounted switch allowing the user to opt for conventional operation or using the remote? I would venture a guess that we might see a production run for Christmas 2022.
No conventional operation unfortunately. Many have commented that they would buy one if it did.
@Craftech @RoyBoy- I would agree that the firmware may be where they made the change.
"How many units were distributed and how did they select the the people who received the free units. "
It was only a handful of units, I suspect, and they were distributed to folks on the AOL Forum and other personal contacts who seemed interested and knowledgeable. This went on for a few years and many of those involved met with Lionel staff during the centennial celebration in Detroit in 2000 (LCCA/LOTS).
@Landsteiner posted:"How many units were distributed and how did they select the the people who received the free units. "
It was only a handful of units, I suspect, and they were distributed to folks on the AOL Forum and other personal contacts who seemed interested and knowledgeable. This went on for a few years and many of those involved met with Lionel staff during the centennial celebration in Detroit in 2000 (LCCA/LOTS).
They were all sold through Menards website. First come first serve......no freebies from what I have read.
@Sam Jumper posted:Actually, Lionel did this with the RS11/C420 chassis (Maddox send Cab 1’s and TMCC gear with), and Weaver did it with at least the U25B. In these two cases that I know of for sure, it was all given for free in exchange for the user feedback. It’s rather uncommon for a manufacturer to actually sell preproduction units AND expect the buyers to deliver feedback.
I'm a beta tester for a major electronics manufacturer. They send me everything for free in exchange for my time. Granted, the electronics testing does tend to become very tedious and time-consuming as various firmware updates are released and software bugs resolved. Then again, I'm retired. All dressed up with nowhere to go as it were.
I was happy to participate and pay for it until this last one (version 3).
$200 later I have no idea what was changed (improved) from version 2. No one else who has both seems to know either. That the couplers are worse on some models is not something they intended so what did they improve and why is it up to us to guess?
John
@Sam Jumper posted:Actually, Lionel did this with the RS11/C420 chassis (Maddox send Cab 1’s and TMCC gear with), and Weaver did it with at least the U25B. In these two cases that I know of for sure, it was all given for free in exchange for the user feedback. It’s rather uncommon for a manufacturer to actually sell preproduction units AND expect the buyers to deliver feedback.
Sam,
It’s rather uncommon for a manufacturer to actually sell preproduction units period.
Mike
@Craftech posted:I was happy to participate and pay for it until this last one (version 3).
$200 later I have no idea what was changed (improved) from version 2. No one else who has both seems to know either. That the couplers are worse on some models is not something they intended so what did they improve and why is it up to us to guess?
John
I hear your frustration, but there's a method to the madness.
It's clear from your comments, and those of many others, that Version 3 is quite successful.
There are two objectives, both of them are intended to make the product more profitable, hence better:
- Add Value -- Determine what folks like, and don't like, and dial in the design appropriately using their feedback.
- Reduce Cost without Reducing Value -- Introduce improvements to make the product more manufacturable and less costly to build.
I suggest that No. 2 above was a complete success with Version 3. I'm sure that changes of this type were made because Menards wouldn't go through the process of running a third beta unless there were indeed changes made.
Since you (and apparently the rest of well) didn't find them Menard's should be quite happy with the outcome.
Now, as for them telling you what they were, it's not gonna happen. If they let you know beforehand what to look for you'd be inclined to complain about them. In reality you first need to find them, then complain about them. If you didn't find anything there's nothing to complain about, and nothing for them to change. Success.
Finally, read the fine print on the transaction. They don't owe you these details of what they changed.
I suggest you send your Version 3 back for a refund, while you can, and don't buy a Version 4 beta if one comes out.
Mike
@Mellow Hudson Mike posted:Now, as for them telling you what they were, it's not gonna happen. If they let you know beforehand what to look for you'd be inclined to complain about them. In reality you first need to find them, then complain about them. If you didn't find anything there's nothing to complain about, and nothing for them to change. Success.
Mike
I didn't say "beforehand".
But 200 were sold out in two hours. So the orders were done. If we are beta testing why is knowing what was improved a bad thing? Not everyone has all three to compare like I do. If there is no difference between version 2 and version 3 then wouldn't Menards be more forthcoming saying "We are selling a second run of version 2 for a larger feedback"? New version means some changes were made. I don't see any so this is version 2 reissued. What am I missing ?
I also like these things. Even bought an MTH B unit to go with one of them. But as I stated above I won't be buying another Beta unless I know I will be testing something new.
John
