Can you use this and is the best solution for wiring a layout?
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I don't know about the best solution, but I am using that on my layout and it seems to work just fine. I think as long as it can carries the current for the trains it should work fine. Perhaps other will speak up.
"The best solution" needs to be expanded upon. Is it the best for track power? Probably for a small layout, yes. 14 or 12 gauge is probably better for longer runs and heavy equipment. 16 gauge is fine for accessories.
Do the math: figure out your amperage requirement and then compare it to the ampacity of 16 gauge wire.
TrainHead posted:Can you use this and is the best solution for wiring a layout?
You need to provide more information.. Size of the layout, what you are using the wire for- run trains, accessories, both??
I will be building a 12 x 22 layout. It will be around the room agianst the walls with not more than a 36" reach.
On our large layout we run 14ga feeders with 16ga drops from the rails, soldered to the underside so they are "hidden".
On the modular layout, 48' x 54' we are using 16 gauge wire with a feeder every 4 feet. The layout was built in 2003 using Lionel TMCC, now Legacy without any problem.
16 ga Speaker Wire
TrainHead posted:Can you use this and is the best solution for wiring a layout?
Yes, you can use it.
Is it best?
That depends on many variables. How many amps? How long is each wire run? Do you run with smoke on? Do you have pass cars with regular light bulbs?
If you look at a wire chart, it will show you amp capacity vs length. The longer the wire run, the less capacity.
So if you stay less than say 25 feet, and/ or run less than 3 engines and no regular light pass cars, you are fine.
There is basically an amps per foot formula to be figured out. So....
#1 biggest train you will ever run, what will the amp draw be? (Lights in passenger cars+engine+track powered turnout switches and accesories)
#2 present power supply,(max amps to be availible)
#3 the distance.
Or skip.right to the fat stuff for a bus, then do drops off it with lighter wire.
I'll look for an AWG* wire chart later if I get a chance, but a search will find one too. It's very common info. I bet wikapedia has one.(*American Wire Gauge)
Looks like I forgot to refresh this tab first 
suggestion,whatever gage you use the wire with the most strands will have the best SIGNAL CARRYING Characteristics, more flexible than solid,and more surface area for soldering. Hope this helps. Charlie
Adriatic posted:There is basically an amps per foot formula to be figured out. So....
#1 biggest train you will ever run, what will the amp draw be? (Lights in passenger cars+engine+track powered turnout switches and accesories)
#2 present power supply,(max amps to be availible)
#3 the distance.
Or skip.right to the fat stuff for a bus, then do drops off it with lighter wire.
I'll look for an AWG* wire chart later if I get a chance, but a search will find one too. It's very common info. I bet wikapedia has one.(*American Wire Gauge)
Seems like 14ga lines with 16ga feeders to the track about every 5 sections of Gargraves will handle the most amp load one is going to see with these trains.
I use 14 gauge, from panel right to rail, on all 70 of my blocks. Don't skimp if you're planning to use DCS or run more than one train.
Kerrigan posted:Adriatic posted:There is basically an amps per foot formula to be figured out. So....
#1 biggest train you will ever run, what will the amp draw be? (Lights in passenger cars+engine+track powered turnout switches and accesories)
#2 present power supply,(max amps to be availible)
#3 the distance.
Or skip.right to the fat stuff for a bus, then do drops off it with lighter wire.
I'll look for an AWG* wire chart later if I get a chance, but a search will find one too. It's very common info. I bet wikapedia has one.(*American Wire Gauge)
Seems like 14ga lines with 16ga feeders to the track about every 5 sections of Gargraves will handle the most amp load one is going to see with these trains.
For modern trains, could be. But my PW Hudson and a string of passenger cars would get it warm at least. Alone it peaks at 5.5a no load (Peak, not continuous. I think it draws 3.5 cont. (been a few years) It will make an 80w modern transformer blink out on heavy thottle with freight). Now think PW ABA with 3-6 motors. Plus he didn't say what he ran.
Really, ideally, most safely, you should wire(anything) to match the max output of the power supply. Otherwise a direct short (derail) could cook your feeds before a breaker might trip.
If you use lighter wire than the max. transformer output, ideally a fuse or breaker rated at less than the wire's capacity should be added anywhere before that wire.
once again, people are viewing this completely wrong...
16 gauge wire can handle over 20 amps in open air wiring which is more than twice what any sane modeler could possibly require. the AWG tables are typically based on transmission line wiring where a 3% voltage drop is their standard for specifying size.
the problem you need to look at when you up the amperage, is dealing with a voltage drop. 16g copper wire has a resistance of about 0.4 ohms /100 ft. most of my trains draw well under 2amps. given a maximum run of ~20', this is a voltage drop of less than 1 volt. what i tend to do with wiring from the transformer to the track is to make all the run lengths about equal length. sure i get a small voltage drop, but this is consistent throughout the layout powered from a transformer which i never crank up to 100% anyway.
now lets address the mechanics. every try to solder 12 or 14 gauge wire to the track or any connectors that aren't the size of your fist? voltage drops also occur at every connection you make. 16 gauge wire is the idea size for most small connectors and switches.
just my opinion based on a few decades of practical experience.
cheers...gary
Gary, like everyone else, you are entitled to your opinion, and on your layout, do whatever you wish.
My opinion is based on 70+ years of running model trains. Using heavy trains with lighting, and even with short blocks, I find that anything less than 14-gauge produces unacceptable voltage drop. A drop of 2 volts in a house is meaningless. On a layout, it is unacceptable.
overlandflyer posted:once again, people are viewing this completely wrong...
16 gauge wire can handle over 20 amps in open air wiring which is more than twice what any sane modeler could possibly require. the AWG tables are typically based on transmission line wiring where a 3% voltage drop is their standard for specifying size.
the problem you need to look at when you up the amperage, is dealing with a voltage drop. 16g copper wire has a resistance of about 0.4 ohms /100 ft. most of my trains draw well under 2amps. given a maximum run of ~20', this is a voltage drop of less than 1 volt. what i tend to do with wiring from the transformer to the track is to make all the run lengths about equal length. sure i get a small voltage drop, but this is consistent throughout the layout powered from a transformer which i never crank up to 100% anyway.
now lets address the mechanics. every try to solder 12 or 14 gauge wire to the track or any connectors that aren't the size of your fist? voltage drops also occur at every connection you make. 16 gauge wire is the idea size for most small connectors and switches.
just my opinion based on a few decades of practical experience.
cheers...gary
sane modeler where,? WHO
overlandflyer posted:.... what i tend to do with wiring from the transformer to the track is to make all the run lengths about equal length. sure i get a small voltage drop, but this is consistent throughout the layout powered from a transformer which i never crank up to 100% anyway. ...
RJR posted:.... A drop of 2 volts in a house is meaningless. On a layout, it is unacceptable.
how would you notice a 2 volt drop between your transformer and every point on the layout? of course on a 18-20 vac transformer you'd have to reduce your top speed from 120 to ~90 mph, but other than that if it really bothers you, scratch off the 20v marking and pencil in 18v, ... etc.
model railroading is fun!
cheers...gary
Short answer is that I run trains realistically, at slower speeds. Rarely over 20 smph. At those speeds, when renning conventional, one must keep adjusting the throttle. I use command control, and I have found that voltage drop also affects the command signal.
fastman posted:overlandflyer posted:...16 gauge wire can handle over 20 amps in open air wiring which is more than twice what any sane modeler could possibly require. ...sane modeler where,? WHO
i use 8a breakers on my transformer outputs.
frankly i even consider an 8a draw outside my comfort zone.
also consider that LEDs are the future (and even retrofitting) of interior lighting.
overlandflyer posted:overlandflyer posted:.... what i tend to do with wiring from the transformer to the track is to make all the run lengths about equal length. sure i get a small voltage drop, but this is consistent throughout the layout powered from a transformer which i never crank up to 100% anyway. ...RJR posted:.... A drop of 2 volts in a house is meaningless. On a layout, it is unacceptable.how would you notice a 2 volt drop between your transformer and every point on the layout? of course on a 18-20 vac transformer you'd have to reduce your top speed from 120 to ~90 mph, but other than that if it really bothers you, scratch off the 20v marking and pencil in 18v, ... etc.
model railroading is fun!
cheers...gary
running equal length feeds doesn't make sense; on a moving loco,the distance to any feed wire, changes constantly as the loco moves around the layout. Every feed wire is contributing some current all the time you should not experience any voltage drops with enough feeds. hope this helps
Fastman, for maximum control when operating conventional, it is a good idea to have many short-length toggle-switch-controlled blocks. This permits operating several trains on a single transformer handle and stretch of track. If one train overtakes another, you can stop it alone, or uses various means to slow it. Also, you can keep one train stopped while using others. However, you will normally only have one feed per block.
right on thanks
Adriatic posted:Kerrigan posted:Adriatic posted:There is basically an amps per foot formula to be figured out. So....
#1 biggest train you will ever run, what will the amp draw be? (Lights in passenger cars+engine+track powered turnout switches and accesories)
#2 present power supply,(max amps to be availible)
#3 the distance.
Or skip.right to the fat stuff for a bus, then do drops off it with lighter wire.
I'll look for an AWG* wire chart later if I get a chance, but a search will find one too. It's very common info. I bet wikapedia has one.(*American Wire Gauge)
Seems like 14ga lines with 16ga feeders to the track about every 5 sections of Gargraves will handle the most amp load one is going to see with these trains.
For modern trains, could be. But my PW Hudson and a string of passenger cars would get it warm at least. Alone it peaks at 5.5a no load (Peak, not continuous. I think it draws 3.5 cont. (been a few years) It will make an 80w modern transformer blink out on heavy thottle with freight). Now think PW ABA with 3-6 motors. Plus he didn't say what he ran.
Really, ideally, most safely, you should wire(anything) to match the max output of the power supply. Otherwise a direct short (derail) could cook your feeds before a breaker might trip.
If you use lighter wire than the max. transformer output, ideally a fuse or breaker rated at less than the wire's capacity should be added anywhere before that wire.
We've run a really REALLY long passenger train from the 1960's with multi-powered units on the front and the circuit breaker finally tripped at 10 amps going up a long hill but the wire never got warm.
overlandflyer posted:once again, people are viewing this completely wrong...
16 gauge wire can handle over 20 amps in open air wiring which is more than twice what any sane modeler could possibly require. the AWG tables are typically based on transmission line wiring where a 3% voltage drop is their standard for specifying size.
the problem you need to look at when you up the amperage, is dealing with a voltage drop. 16g copper wire has a resistance of about 0.4 ohms /100 ft. most of my trains draw well under 2amps. given a maximum run of ~20', this is a voltage drop of less than 1 volt. what i tend to do with wiring from the transformer to the track is to make all the run lengths about equal length. sure i get a small voltage drop, but this is consistent throughout the layout powered from a transformer which i never crank up to 100% anyway.
now lets address the mechanics. every try to solder 12 or 14 gauge wire to the track or any connectors that aren't the size of your fist? voltage drops also occur at every connection you make. 16 gauge wire is the idea size for most small connectors and switches.
just my opinion based on a few decades of practical experience.
cheers...gary
Solder the 16ga to the underside of the rail with a solder slug which melts down into the rail and holds the wire. Won't pull out if done well. And you don't see the wire on the top of the table next to the track ...
overlandflyer posted:fastman posted:overlandflyer posted:...16 gauge wire can handle over 20 amps in open air wiring which is more than twice what any sane modeler could possibly require. ...sane modeler where,? WHO
i use 8a breakers on my transformer outputs.
frankly i even consider an 8a draw outside my comfort zone.also consider that LEDs are the future (and even retrofitting) of interior lighting.
I'm considering opening up my PowerMaster from ROW and replacing the 8amp breakers with 10 or 12 amp. The designer of it said it would handle it no problem.
Speaker wire I'd stay away from as most these days are CCA construction..that is Copper Clad Aluminum...ugh!
I wouldn't even use "speaker wire" for speakers.
