1957 Catalog Layout Underway

Looking forward to watching your progress!

Peter

you're building this layout? 

that is awesome!!

Watch out for that trestle bent!

Andre

This just made my day! Miketg

Ground cover varies; you might want realistic thick and thin areas, abrupt ends and tapering, etc..  If you spread evenly and mask closely it becomes more abstract and toy like imo. Texture also makes standing figures hard

In general, I pile it on here and there, heavier in corners, etc,; less where people might be, and blow it "clean" once it's sticking well or dry.

Penn-Pacific posted:

you're building this layout? 

that is awesome!!

Yes! It is going to be close to this. I had to make a few adjustments from the original track plan but it is going to be very close. I also plan on moving the ZW and controllers off the top of the layout. Just cannot decide how I want to build the control panel.

And you are using Super O track! Cool!

Looking forward to watching this develop.

The layout shown by Penn Pacific is the 1957 catalog layout (look in the lower corner of the photo).  

Yup, the '57 catalog. I just took these pics of my copy.

Front cover:

Back cover:

Page 51:

Just updated thread title to reflect the correct year.

My goal was to try and keep the look of what a Lionel dealer display would have looked like from that era.

What it also needs are the asbestos floortiles and "modern" blue chairs. As a kid we had similiar red and white floor tiles in our basement where my layout was. Miketg

I saw one that was built for the 1994 40th anniversary TCA convention at York, using regular 0 gauge track. I think this was probably the ultimate dream layout for a lot of us kids back then. Good luck, and take lots of pictures for us!

Hi Mike,

I knew you had started on this. Looks great!

On my Lionel Dealer Display I sprinkled Lionel 990 "grass" on the green paint while it was wet. I used one of those shaker bottles from Woodland. Do a small area at a time.  I found that I put it on too "light" so went back to fill in.

Also... suggest doing this method on some scrap pieces of wood first for practice! It will help refine the technique. Good luck!

Can anyone with a 1957 Lionel catalog provide a full list of the Lionel products used, part of which is shown in the picture above.  Color photo doesn't make it real clear which products are used.

Thanks

Chuck

Here ya' go:

If anyone needs higher resolution pics let me know and I'll eMail them.

John,

Can you provide any details on how you built and painted your mountain? It looks great. 

Thanks,

Mike

Mike, super layout you are building!  I recall using paint and brown and green colored sawdust for my ground cover on my teenaged layout (roughly 1968-74).

Lew, you are the man with the plan!!  I never saw any of the old Lionel catalogs.  I lived a long way from a hobby shop and had inexpensive HO trains.

Mike M posted:

John,

Can you provide any details on how you built and painted your mountain? It looks great. 

Thanks,

Mike

Thanks, Mike.

First, have to admit that I did NOT use any of the old Lionel Display techniques for mountains. This was one area where I decided to go with an easier method and not use some of the materials that are faithful to Lionel. Basically, I used the tried and true cardboard latticework covered by plaster sheets approach. Strips of cardboard held together with hot glue to make the "frame" and then application of plaster sheets layered over.

To me, the big thing was trying to get the look of a Lionel Display with the colors. I used a variety of browns, greens, yellows and even some reds. Overlay the colors until I got the look I wanted. Very trial and error. I think it turned out well.

Edit...here are a couple shots of the finished layout. Btw, this is the Lionel D-105, 5x9 Dealer Display.

PRR1950 posted:

Can anyone with a 1957 Lionel catalog provide a full list of the Lionel products used, part of which is shown in the picture above.  Color photo doesn't make it real clear which products are used.

Thanks

Chuck

I can also tell you that not all the accessories will not fit where they are shown in the catalog photos. There was a great article written in the TCA e-Magazine on this very layout that covers a lot of the issues of bringing this layout to life. 

Mark Boyce posted:

Mike, super layout you are building!  I recall using paint and brown and green colored sawdust for my ground cover on my teenaged layout (roughly 1968-74).

Lew, you are the man with the plan!!  I never saw any of the old Lionel catalogs.  I lived a long way from a hobby shop and had inexpensive HO trains.

Mark, I'm not much of a collector but I wanted this catalog (because Super O)  so watched for one at a good price on eBay. One of these days if/when I can get a few low-priority bucks ahead I want to buy a few pieces of Super O track, just because it has always looked good to me.

This may help as it contains a wiring diagram. 

Mike,

This is a real treat to watch. This layout captured my childhood dreams as I spent countless hours imagining this layout in Super O and in my basement.

The only aspect I would change is the back-to-back switches that the elevated and lower levels share making it impossible to have two completely independent loops. It’s not true to the original plan, but might be something to consider. The loops could still be connected elsewhere, just not at a shared “merge”, especially if relying upon 60+ year old 112 Super O switches to keep a potential Gomez Addams disaster from happening.

looking forward to following your progress!

Mack

Mike Espy and CSXJOE,

Thanks for the detailed additional info about this layout.

Chuck

PRR1950

When I built my D-190 recreation I used green grass paper cut to fit.

Used Rustoleum flat green spray paint for the table as it was a close match.

Here's a wip pic.

Layout was finished in Jersey now it in storage at our new house in NC waiting for a space. Everything else is boxed.

Great topic and layout.
I found this art work does anyone know where this layout design came from? i couldn't find any explanation. Is it Lionel or HO? Sorry I'm not trying to hijack this thread. Thanks

Unless that chair is huge, I think that set is HO.

At most, it’s HO, but seems too small for HO. Compare the steam loco on the cocktail table to the screwdriver, glass, etc. it’s really small.

totrainyard posted:

Unless that chair is huge, I think that set is HO.

If were were to assume it's two 4x8's put together, I would put it more likely as N scale.

Rusty

I remember that Linoel 1957 layout well.    I drooled and dreamed about it too.     In Todays world it does not seem so big and unattainable.     At that time as a 12  year where I lived, I could not imagine what kind of super rich person could have a layout like that.    

Seacoast George, that looks like a nice ad for "Paul Jones" whiskey and how to enjoy it. A shot or two, a little ginger ale, some ice, and just take a ride on the Club Car. Rusty Traque, I don't think N gauge was around quite yet, the artist might have been sampling the product while drawing it.

The ad does look about the same era as the Lionel artwork.

Started putting down the grass today. Hope I have enough!!

Nice work Mike!

Art I agree the Paul Jones layout looks similar to the 1957 catalog track plan.

Looking great!  It looks like you’re using the Scotts 4-step program and have a nice thick lawn

One trick I’ve read here on the forum is to use a small clean shop vac to collect the grass that doesn’t stick to the paint so you can reuse it in another application. 

JD2035RR posted:

Looking great!  It looks like you’re using the Scotts 4-step program and have a nice thick lawn

One trick I’ve read here on the forum is to use a small clean shop vac to collect the grass that doesn’t stick to the paint so you can reuse it in another application. 

Thanks for the tip!

If anyone has the correct formula to make the glue spray to spray the grass down with after i have vacuumed up the excess i would appreciate it!

I always use 50/50 glue-water.

Mike,

Hoping all is well with you . Have you made any progress with your 1957 catalog layout? I confess I am anxiously following your project and looking forward to photos.

Keep well and safe,

Mack

I've always been fond of toy train layouts as they were large displays of the PW equipment of the day. While my layout is a more realistic view of railroading of the 40's and 50's, its extremely hard to place more accessories on it and they just sit on the shelves.

So i have made some progress on the layout. I am in the process of getting all of the wire ran to each accessory. Next step will be the control panel. And I will have to admit I am not 100% sure how I want to build it so feel free to offer up any suggestions. I would like to keep it somewhat period correct to what they would have done back in 1958  

Mike-

The layout is brilliant! Your attention to detail is impeccable. The crisp demarcation between the painted sections and the grass are critical to capture the period feel of a dealer display/ catalog layout. It’s impressive how precise you were.

i love layouts like these that provide breathing room for the track itself as well as accessories and landscaping to share the limelight. As a Super O addict, I want the track to be the focus of attention and not be hidden by too many buildings or accessories. 

I’m sure others will have some good suggestions for the control panel.

Thanks  for sharing the photos; this is a real gem.

Mack

Mike:

I'm with you on getting the controls off the layout surface. I used a simple pine shelf to hold my controls along with a hinged control panel supported by two pieces of pine, all painted a neutral color (left over from another home project).

Running TMCC, I elected to use switch controllers only for frequently used switches and run the rest through TMCC.

Your efforts are inspiring and I covet that beautiful Super "0" track. Keep up the good work!

Train Nut posted:

I always use 50/50 glue-water.

I agree, however, I add a drop or two of dish soap to make it wetter.  That spreads it through the grass more thoroughly and evenly.

Alan

That looks really great. Post more pictures.

Mike,

Any progress to report/share on the layout? It’s really looking great.

Mack

Tunnel now done. Next step is finishing the mountain!!

Hey Mike,

any updates to share?

@Mike Espy posted:

I can also tell you that not all the accessories will not fit where they are shown in the catalog photos. There was a great article written in the TCA e-Magazine on this very layout that covers a lot of the issues of bringing this layout to life. 

I don't know if that original Lionel layout in the 1957 catalog was ever built. I think it was maybe just an artist's conception, which would explain scale issues. For example, it is the upper level track that goes through the mountain, but we don't really see the mountain going down to the table level. An optical illusion. And why would an elevated line on trestles go through a mountain? Sort of nonsensical when you think of it.

But it is a wonderful illustration, the whole scene, and I drooled over it as a kid too. I actually have the remains of a dealer display from 1961 packed away. The table, mountain ( which is cloth), and a lot of the track and bits of the accessories. A family friend bought it from the dealer after Christmas that year, and gave it to my Dad in the 1980s. But it had been pretty beat up by his boys, and my Dad took all the track off and decided to put another layout there. He didn't know they were collectible, I think.

Sorry for not posting more progress photos. It is springtime and farming seems to take up more of my hobby time!

Finished up some small details on the mountain and ready to add color to it. Wish me luck!!

Also got started on the control panel. Decided to put if in the inside corner of the layout.

Will post more photos soon!

 Thanks to everyone that is following this build and providing such great encouragement!!👍

Very cool!  What is the grade% that you are planning?

Here is a link to a design thread where I redesigned the layout for FasTrack with a bit of Atlas-O.  I ended up with a grade of 3.5% maximum.

Hi Mike,

You don’t need good luck wishes for the mountain, but I’ll wish you luck, anyway. You’ve got this.

Your wiring is the neatest and most meticulous I have ever seen. Everything you are doing is absolutely top notch. Thanks for keeping us updated. 

Mack

I’m late to the party here, but super glad I found this gem in the making!! Amazing craftsmanship! 

We will need a video once it’s done showing us trains and accessories in action!!

Mike,

Any progress to share? Looking forward to see how the mountain is coming along.

Mack

Thanks for following up with my progress Mack. I am at a standstill due to several issues with accessories that will not work. Got started wiring everything up and have ran into all kinds problems. Did finish up the mountain so i will get you some photos of it this weekend. Have been a little frustrated with the layout for the past week so just walked away for a bit.  

Hey Mike,

I look at this hobby as a source of escape and relaxation, so whenever something like you are experiencing happens, I do the same thing- step away. 
If the track work is complete, maybe just run some trains, watch plastic fish swim around inside an aquarium car, watch a giraffe bob up and down as it rides down the Super O rails, and inhale the delicious smell of Lionel Smoke Pellets.

It’s an impeccable job you have done and is no less so because some operating accessories have decided to be cranky. 

FWIW, you have inspired me to refresh my own Super O layout. It has re-ignited my enthusiasm and for that I am very grateful to you.

All the best,

Mack

Maybe a roll-around control panel that has a loop of cabling between itself and the main train board. Then you could place it where you want, within a few feet, and store it under the table when not in use.

@Will posted:

And why would an elevated line on trestles go through a mountain? Sort of nonsensical when you think of it.

 

Like this?  

Brendan

Hi Mike,

Hoping your frustration with uncooperative operating accessories has subsided and that you are reinvigorated to complete the great progress you have made.

any new photos you might choose to share are greatly appreciated!

Mack

Hey Mike,

First; hoping you are well!

it has been just shy of three months since we last heard from you and I have thus far resisted the urge to pester you with requests for updates and photos.

Last we heard, you were fighting with uncooperative operating accessories and were a bit frustrated and perhaps taking a break from this layout. Understandable.

I hope you haven’t lost the enthusiasm to complete this gem as what you have accomplished so far is beautiful.

Best wishes,

Mack

I hope you have better luck with that 155 ringing bell signal than I had. I went through two signals and one replacement inside unit before I gave up on that accessory! The outside shell of the 155 now sits on my shelf queen cabinet and replaced with a 154 crossing signal with modern flasher unit controlling it instead of the primitive contact method originally used.  I suppose I could have used that modern flashing module to work with the 155, but I needed a change from that frustrating accessory.

I picked up my copy of the 1957 Lionel (Reg.U.S.Pat.Off.) catalog at the old Sanger Bros. Department Store in Dallas, Texas.  It was around the time when I had just passed Birthday Milepost 11 that long ago July 4, 1957.  My stepdad was out of work a lot, so all I could do was dream about that layout, as well as Super-O track too for that matter.  I never really liked my O27 so sold it to a guy shortly after my stepdad moved us from Texas to his native Tampa, Florida, in January 1962, for a whopping $10 bucks!  NO REGRETS! 

The trains were pretty well wore out by this time.  The 2-4-2 steam locomotive was missing a marker light on the front (real common) and I had brush painted the tuscan red Pennsylvania GP7 with Testor's red for "The Katy"!  I cut out Deramus KATY heralds from a public timetable and glued them under the cab windows.

I recall that the guy said he was going to strip the paint off the geep and make a "GP20" out of it.  Never saw the guy again (having met him one time in a North Tampa hobby shop out on Nebraska Avenue) so don't know if he ever went through with the project or not? 

The father shown w/o a head walking down the stairs with his son reminds me of my stepfater.  He was 6 ft. tall.  If I were going to recreate the scene, I'd do it just as it's shown in the drawing including the same floor pattern, etc.  I imagine most boys in 1957 who had Lionel trains dreamed about this layout when they weren't busy watching Annette Funicello (RIP) play the part of "Annette" in the Mickey Mouse Club series that aired on beautiful black and white TV in early 1958.

I'm sure this question has been asked and answered a million plus times over the years, but personally having never found it myself, I've always wondered why Lionel never reintroduced Super-O to the market?