Anyone know the correct description for the 2007 TTOS banquet car (PRR X2454 boxcar), is it PN 52451 ? Orange or black door ? Seem to recall some article or other info regarding a mixup on these cars. Appreciate any info.
Original Post

I have both cars. The boxes are someplace so I don't  know the # for them. One has a brown door the other is all orange. You could buy the one with the brown door the all orange car was the table prize. I can post pictures if you would like.


Pittsburgh Independent Hi-Railers

The brown door cars are 52451. I don't have an official orange door car but bought two brown door cars and made my own orange doors for one of them.

 Also both frames were replaced with 2454 frames with steps and flying shoe trucks.

Purists need not be concerned, they will never be mistaken for the real deals.





Think there may be some confusion regarding these items.  Back in 2007, I ordered the convention car and the item I received is the 52445 (brown door) boxcar.  My understating is that the 52451 with orange doors is the banquet car. OK so far, so good. Where it gets confusing is that there are also 52451 boxcars with brown doors,as a matter of fact one of the photos I got right from the TTOS website shows a 52451 with brown doors. So whats the story with that variation ?


Note in the attached photos, the photo named 52445_TTOS_photo is actually a 52451 with brown doors.








Photos (4)

I don't know if this helps Ed, but I ordered my cars after the fact when TTOS was closing them out. I received two 52451 with brown doors. I never paid attention to the Lionel stock numbers before this thread. They may have had excess stock of the banquet cars and replaced the doors to sell as convention cars in an effort to maintain the desirability of the Banquet car?


My car as received:





Sister car after modification. The frame has since been repainted.







Photos (2)

Norton - I think your theory makes sense.  Interesting in that looking online you can find quite a few photos of brown door 52451 cars but virtually no orange door 52451 cars.


Would be interesting if one of the TTOS officials could shed some light on this subject.

Sorry Norton no orange door cars were repainted with brown doors.


To set the record straight on the 2454 Pennsylvania boxcars, the correct number for the Orange door car is 6-52445 and the Brown door car is 6-52451. The brown door car was produced in far greater numbers than the orange door car. If you look below the X2454 number on the side you should see either 52451 on the brown door car or 52445 on the orange door car.


Now for the rest of the story: The cars were ordered so that the banquet cars would be available at the 2007 convention for pick-up by the members. When the 52445 boxes were opened all of the cars had brown doors, as did the 52451 cars. It turns out that the factory painted the entire order with brown doors. After a very interesting call to Lionel, the factory in Michigan painted several sets of orange doors and overnighted them to the convention. We put the right doors on the proper cars in the proper boxes and went on with the convention. The cars that went out at the convention had the right numbers on them in the right boxes. After the convention all of the cars went back to Michigan to have the doors replaced. Now the cluster really begins! When the cars arrived at TTOS we had the following:

Box 6-52445 with brown door car with 52445 on the side

Box 6-52451 with brown door car with 52451 on the side

Box 6-52451 with orange door car with 52451 on the side

Box 6-52445 with orange door car with 52451 on the side

Box 6-52445 with brown door car with 52451 on the side


So as far as I can tell the only orange door cars in the proper boxes with the proper number on the side are the ones that went out at the convention. As for sorting out the rest, after seven years I GIVE UP! We do make sure the members gets the correct color door when ordering cars, but other than that there is not much else that can be done.


I hope I did not add too much confusion to a already confusing subject.



Randall Giroux

President - TTOS










No "extra" cars were produced, Lionel just corrected the mistake and gave us the original amount of orange door cars we had contracted for in our car order. Yes, we do have orange door cars available for sale to our members. You can contact the office at



Randall Giroux

President TTOS

I have both cars I just went and looked both cars have 52451 on them. The orange door has TTOS 2007 on the door the brown door does not. I have a second orange door car it is the same as the other one I have. It is For Sale if someone needs one. 5241 on the car and box. Pictures on the For Sale Forum,


Pittsburgh Independent Hi-Railers

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