2017 Bachmann/Williams Catalog Released!

HO gets a Cities Sprinter Amtrak locomotive, not in O though !  :-(

The F59 is nice addition to their lineup but I want it in Caltrains Baby Bullet colors. 

 

How about some 44 ton switchers in more modern paint schemes, same with GP30.   They have the GP30 already, why not sell them in more roads like Conrail,  CSX, etc?

I wrote these comments on the "Ask the Bachmann" forum:

http://www.bachmanntrains.com/...p/topic,33279.0.html

Maybe big Williams dealers like Marios should pressure Bachmann to liven things up a bit.  

The new Williams sounds are really so much better, paint is really nice, and the quality and reliability is there.  They just need to refresh by adding new paint schemes on things like the F3, GP30, 44 Tonner.  

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

The first RS3 are being blown out for $200.00 which is a real bargain for your money!

I think I paid even LESS than that for my RS3 at York  in October. NIB from Trainworld. I don't care for supporting TW but when their price was significantly less than the competition a few aisle over, they got the sale.

I also agree on the comment about "livening things up". There is plenty of tooling for engines, cars, etc. Why not give us a little something different. I either have or don't want the engines and cars in the catalog already. Not even that, just a little different paint schemes would be nice (how 'bout a B&O GP30?). It seems the catalog just gets reprinted year after year with little to no changes. There is plenty of tooling available.......

I can't open the Bachmann web page!! Tried it with 2 different emails(bellsouth.net & gmail.com). Also tried to open it on here with the same results.

Guess I will go to www.trainworld.com to see the new Bachmann items.

SJC posted:

The 2017 Bachmann/Williams Catalog is now online at the link below. Nothing exciting for Williams but lots of neat stuff for HO and N.

http://resources.bachmanntrains.com/bachmann2017/

 

Lee Fritz

Philadelphia & Reading Railway, one of the first railroads in the USA, first to have a double track system in the USA.

EscapeRocks posted:

Lee, what browser and computer are you using.     I am able to get to it via the link in this thread on PC using IE at work, and Firefox on my Mac at home.

I am using an HP desk version(the big base comp.) and using Google Chrome as my browser. Have Comcast as the cable provider. Won't reply to either email server I am using; bellsouth.net or gmail.com  I can't go to it even from this website.

Do I need to go to the Bachmann website directly and then try to see about looking at the new Bachmann catalog?

Lee Fritz

Philadelphia & Reading Railway, one of the first railroads in the USA, first to have a double track system in the USA.

The F59PHI and the ore cars from the K-Line days are great.

The on-line stores can sell them for below the catalog price.

I wonder why the O scale SD70MAC/SD75M/SD75I from the K-Line by Lionel era is not in there. That was a great model and a limited number were produced.

The former K-Line O scale ACF Center Flow 2-bay covered hoppers and Evans Products Covered Coil Cars should be in the catalog.

Andrew

The F59s are very interesting.  I wonder what the street price will be on those?  It would be nice to have some non-command power to sub for my command engines when they have issues.  Nice to see scale GG1s back again too.

Jonathan Peiffer

 

Fred Brenek posted:

The biggest problem with WBB is their MSRP.  It's way out of line with what they should reasonably sell for.

Agreed!  No one takes that number seriously.  I question Bachmann's entire marketing strategy of Williams O Scale products.  Bachmann has improved the sound and paint jobs of the Williams products.  But they have not brought enough fresh paint schemes to the catalog.  The rediculous MSRP numbers should be closer to market pricing.  Those in the know do not pay that, and new hobbiests would just be turned away if they think thats really the price.

I think Bachmann has definitely dropped the ball on the marketing and pricing of their Williams O gauge offerings.  They really should take a page out of the Menards playbook and try to compete for the folks who don't want to pay a lot. $25-$40 rolling stock from WBB on their online store is totally doable.... and should be tried.  I'd love to see them compete with Menards.

Matt Kramer posted:

I think Bachmann has definitely dropped the ball on the marketing and pricing of their Williams O gauge offerings.  They really should take a page out of the Menards playbook and try to compete for the folks who don't want to pay a lot. $25-$40 rolling stock from WBB on their online store is totally doable.... and should be tried.  I'd love to see them compete with Menards.

I think I'd go a step further and have Menards take over Williams and let Bachmann do their beloved HO exclusively.   Then we would see more than a trickle of outdated roadnames and reduced production.  

Williams by Menards!  Hmmmm..I like that!

WftTrains posted:

But no new E-Z Street TRACK pieces, just vehicles.  I could use longer straights plus half-curve sections, just to name a few.  

Bill

That's interesting about no new track pieces in E Z Streets. To make a long straight section you will need several 10 inch straights. Don't forget the 2 & a half inch straight to curve pieces or the 2 & a half inch straight curve to curve pieces as they help with being able to go into or out of the curves.

Only wish I could open the WBB website on my comp. Somebody else on another forum site has the same issue with WBB's new webpage.

Lee Fritz

Philadelphia & Reading Railway, one of the first railroads in the USA, first to have a double track system in the USA.

They seem to be just about finished, which is too bad because I like their products.

Between 2011 and 2017:

-Average consumer prices in the US increased by +8%, but the price of a Williams F3 diesel increased by +24%

-The Williams catalog shrunk in size by -50% 

-The Williams catalog was finally relegated to an appendix at the back of the Bachmann catalog

GregR posted:

They seem to be just about finished, which is too bad because I like their products.

Between 2011 and 2017:

-Average consumer prices in the US increased by +8%, but the price of a Williams F3 diesel increased by +24%

-The Williams catalog shrunk in size by -50% 

-The Williams catalog was finally relegated to an appendix at the back of the Bachmann catalog

All true, but to me more likely is that they are right sizing the products to where demand is.  There is a glut of postwar and postwar repro and prices and margins (presumably) were low.  Bachmann seems to be trying to orient the product towards where the market is, with more scale products with better sound and in models, like the F59s, that are not available elsewhere.  In that regard it seems like they are following a similar model as Lionel and MTH.  So unless all three are clueless, they are seeing the same market shifts and rightsizing the offerings accordingly.  Finally, my hunch is that WBB will be in a much stronger position in a few years when Bluetooth supplants proprietary control systems.  We are seeing Lionel go that route now and MTH at some point will be forced to follow.  WBB already has Bluetooth in house they just need to put it in O gauge products.  If or when that occurs, product choice will be much less "funneled" based on the buyer's choice of Legacy v. DCS v. conventional.  A Bluetooth locomotive could do all three seamlessly.  

At the past couple York/TCA Museum presentations, Jack Lynch has talked excitedly about the Bluetooth technology and how eventually they would bring it to O gauge after doing HO. But while Bachmann was waiting and planning to bring it to their O gauge line, Lionel is already doing it. So that takes the wind out of the sails, so-to-speak, as far as an advancement for Williams, as Jack has certainly made mention of.

Aside from that, and what others like GregR and Ray said, there is a great deal we DON'T know and can only speculate on.

There are also some NEW figure sets in the new catalog in addition to the before mentioned new products. Their figure sets are nice and I would imagine, sell pretty well. But as far as locomotives and rolling stock, much of what is shown in O gauge, has been available for at least a couple years... some products even longer.

So if there have not been multiple production runs of those products, and the products shown in the catalog are still unsold inventory from the initial production run, well... right there's your answer. Any company needs a healthy cash flow, meaning product made has to move out the door and be purchased.

The fact that the catalog has a lot of HO product says, that part of their market is strong. Product is selling and therefore more product can be justified. At the last YORK/TCA Museum presentation, Jack spent most of the time talking about product in other scales. Maybe the market for WBB is truly soft and does not justify new product? They did do the new 44 ton switcher, but maybe sales on that have been disappointing? With a single production run, they certainly have not recovered their investment costs on that loco yet.

For years, we the market have said we wanted a scale 44 ton switcher. WBB spent the money and made one. If the sales have been sluggish (?) that would seem to send a message to pack in your losses and not make anything else. Scott Mann has made mention of what is probably common knowledge to all the various train makers: What people "say" they want, and what they are willing to spend their money on, are many times two different scenarios.

The general rule of thumb in business is that if sales are good, you continue to invest, make even more product and capitalize on that. If sales are NOT good, then you pull pack, don't make as much and consider your future options. I don't know for certain, but it appears from an outsider looking in, that is what WBB is doing right now.

 

brianel027

 

20160808_124433-1~01Bachmann is missing out on sales of existing products like the 44 Tonner by only focusing on fallen flags and limited varieties of those as well.  

In recent years they offered the NS F3 locomotives which sold well and they made more and even offered another B unit.  They limit their own sales by offering three or four road names of fallen flags from the distant past.  

The 44 Tonner if done in Amtrak, Republic Steel, or Cargill, would be on my layout already.  

If WBB released a pair of F3's in some fresh schemes not done before they would sell these.  Southern Pacific bloody nose for example.  

GP30..Southern..CSX..Conrail..B&O to name a few ideas.

They may have weakened sales.  But part of this blame is on poor and limited road name offerings.  Many of us out here still want conventional economical locomotives.  This is why the bulk of my power is Williams.  The stamped handrails limits my interest to certain models they  have with realistic rails.  But they offer limited road named on these.  The F3 should be rerun in many of their F7 paint schemes.  People do not care for their F7 shell.  Theres more missed market sales by offering some of these great schemes on the F3.  

I just hate to see these reliable and affordable locomotives dwindle due to possible mismanagement and marketing.  There is a market for what Jerry Williams created, simply reliable affordable trains that look good and run through the decades.  I much prefer buying two or three Williams engines for the price of one of the other manufacturers locomotives.  I also know that they will run every time without fail.   All of my Williams from the 1990s runs like new.  Not many survivors of the Proto-1 left on my roster!  

 

 

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Not sure what Bachmann is going to do with the Williams line up but I suspect either declaring bankruptcy or selling the Williams line of trains off. They have not come out with much new stuff in over 3 years and Bachmann/Williams keeps saying they are going to come out with some new items. There might have been some re-issues but not much new stuff.

Also for what it's worth Bachmann Williams can't get a correct diesel engine made for the correct railroad; example is the Norfolk Southern series heritage diesels, WBB made an SD-90 and not the correct model that Norfolk Southern used an SD-70ACe. FYI: I am not trying to be a rivet counter but just trying to state the facts that "WBB has failed to produce accurate modern engines" in my opinion.

I still can't open the new catalog from Williams by Bachmann, even on the WBB website, all I get is the photo to come up, I have tried clicking on the photo but NO success. Even sent WBB an email telling them I can't open the website, so far no response from WBB.

Lee Fritz

Philadelphia & Reading Railway, one of the first railroads in the USA, first to have a double track system in the USA.

FWIW, I'm using the latest versions of Firefox and Adobe Flash Player and don't seem to have a problem opening the catalog.  It pretty much looks like the page turning/zoom format that Lionel uses on their catalogs.  Seems their catalog was published using 3DIssue Version 6.2.7.

Fred

VistaDomeScott posted:

Two of my favorite locomotives from Williams in the Bachmann era are the Erie and B&M F3 locomotives.  WBB started out in a hopefull way with these and, NS F3's, and Penn Central F3's.

They need to keep these beauties coming.  At least one new one a year!20141226_131116-120141222_011348-1

Could not agree more.  The Boston & Maine F3s are my absolute favorite locomotives and I didn't even grow up in the East.  Think about all the paint schemes that could be done.  NYC Cigar Band, Chicago & Eastern Illinois, Northern Pacific (with the correct color shade), the SP Black Widow, Spokane Portland & Seattle, a CNW freight scheme, CB&Q in white, Frisco, Kansas City Southern, GN Sky Blue.  I'd spend the money on several of those.  But no, we get the grand announcement of the 2017 catalog which is a combo of existing products/road names and new items we'd already heard about.  Something is wrong.

Keep in mind Bachmann's BT is not there's but was developed for DCC by another company.  BlueRail Trains is the company.  Now if BlueRail would make an O Gauge compatible BT setup, that would be a game changer.  Buh bye Legacy and DCS.  BlueRail already supports battery power too.

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