2021 is S American Flyer 75th Anniversary

Probably an A. C. Gilbert Northern, SD70 or ES44...  If anything.

A really good new product to celebrate the 75th would be is the C&O Allegheny (and NOT using the K-Line body.)  Gilbert made a mock-up of one but never pursued it.

Rusty

I would like to see some of the larger sets re-issued, complete with original box artwork.

Another item would be A/F transformers to power their products.

Phil

They should do a Hudson. For certain a detailed Legacy version followed by a FlyerChief version.

I agree on remaking some more engines that Gilbert Flyer made. (Hudson, K5, 0-8-0, and Atlantic)  A engine Gilbert never made, like an Allegheny, wouldn't seem appropriate. 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

I agree on remaking some more engines that Gilbert Flyer made. (Hudson, K5, 0-8-0, and Atlantic)  A engine Gilbert never made, like an Allegheny, wouldn't seem appropriate. 

There is marketing value in "proposed at the Gilbert Hall of Science, but never made."  It could be considered as expanding on the Gilbert tradition.

I recall the Gilbert's feasibility sample still exists.  Granted, it's not much more than a wood dowel on two Hudson mechanisms, but imagine if ACG actually made it.

AmFlyer posted:

They should do a Hudson. For certain a detailed Legacy version followed by a FlyerChief version.

I think we're already experiencing the minor marketing disaster that is offering two versions of the same locomotive.

Rusty

Any body remember when Lionel/AF offered in a pre-catalogue - maybe 1988 or so the return of the NYC J3A but is was replaced in the real catalogue by PA1s. Always wondered what kind of drive mechanism it was going to have. The road name offered the first year was going to be Wabash. 

ns1001 posted:

Any body remember when Lionel/AF offered in a pre-catalogue - maybe 1988 or so the return of the NYC J3A but is was replaced in the real catalogue by PA1s. Always wondered what kind of drive mechanism it was going to have. The road name offered the first year was going to be Wabash. 

The Wabash was for the "Historic American Railroads" set and Santa Fe for separate sale.

Most likely it was going to have the traditional Gilbert drive, probably with a can motor.  Almost all of the old Gilbert tooling needed to be reworked, which was one of the reasons the project died.  The approximate $500 price tag was the other and more or less the main reason.  VG-E Flyer Hudson's could be had for about $125 back then.

Offering the Hudson in New York Central wouldn't have saved the project

Rusty

My all time favorite AF was the NYC J3A Hudson followed by the PRR K5 pacific which my father bought from a Firestone tire store in the early 50's with SIT. Bought the Lionel AF FEF-1 with smoke lifters after they had removed the choo-choo sound - great loco but sound is not loud enough. Gave up on a revival of the AF J3A so bought the Legacy O gauge J3a with the as delivered tender which goes around O-36 track fine. Why did the last version of the AF J3A have a plastic tender?

The plastic tenders for the last K5, Hudson, and Northern were made to save money.  That is why the cheaper engines had plastic tenders. 

How about some of those great accessories?

an sd40 would be nice or my favorite locomotive the MK5000C  which likely won't happen sd40 might though

Allegheny sign me up but i probably can't afford one

update- ryan mentioned the anniversary and said next catalog will make the flyer folks smile

i am primarely an o gauger but i do want to play with flyer every now and then

When the Hudson was proposed I put in my order, it was a lot of money at the time but I so much wanted to see some new steam power. I would still like to see it, Milw. Rd. labeling would now be my preference. How about in Hiawatha steam?

Ray

Personally I have zero interest in any remakes of AF products. If they bring out ANY new scale, detailed tooling I'll buy it. I would be over the moon if they brought a scale Legacy Hudson. I'd buy 4 and change road numbers if necessary.  It's a long shot, but I'm hoping the success of the Legacy Berk has them considering more Legacy scale products.

I'm all in on a Legacy Hudson...

Earlier people from Lionel said that they would put out some things to celebrate the 75 year. I have to believe it will be existing stuff with displays that note the birthday in their graphics.  My guess is no new tooling.

I tend to agree.  Probably a specially decorated boxcar and maybe a Gilbert Hall of Science aquarium car.

Rusty

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

Earlier people from Lionel said that they would put out some things to celebrate the 75 year. I have to believe it will be existing stuff with displays that note the birthday in their graphics.  My guess is no new tooling.

A bit of a non event then if this is all it could be.

Now that the MTH S product line is possibly in doubt for the future (unless anyone knows something) you might feel that Lionel are in prime position to take advantage of the situation to take some risk and produce some interesting new items to satisfy the AF/Hi-Rail and the scale people. Strike while the iron is hot!

@Big John Henry posted:

How about some of those great accessories?

Great idea.  Make them with better motors than those crummy, loud can motors that were used in earlier repro's.

@Ukaflyer posted:

A bit of a non event then if this is all it could be.   Now that the MTH S product line is possibly in doubt (unless anyone knows something) you might feel that Lionel are in prime position to take some risk and produce  interesting new items to satisfy the AF/Hi-Rail and scale people.

I would be happy if those two random items were produced for the Flyer 75th anniv.   I don't quite understand how the status of the old MTH S line would put Lionel in any "prime position" to do anything in particular.

@RadioRon posted:

I would be happy if those two random items were produced for the Flyer 75th anniv.   I don't quite understand how the status of the old MTH S line would put Lionel in any "prime position" to do anything in particular.

Depending on how you read Roundhouse Bill’s response, it appears that L are possibly going to produce a couple or ? freight cars with graphics that say 75th anniversary. If this is it then it is very little at hardly any expense to celebrate such a milestone for AF. I wonder how the three railers would respond to a similar announcement for them.

My mention of L being in a prime position refers to a possibility that the MTH S tooling etc is folded and not used again. At this point L are in prime position to start introducing new products by default that they have lost a competitor, they then acquire a larger market share.

Well, if we're talking about Classic Flyer sets, I would like to see The Circus set, and The Frontiersman set.

@Ukaflyer posted:

My mention of L being in a prime position refers to a possibility that the MTH S tooling etc is folded and not used again. At this point L are in prime position to start introducing new products by default that they have lost a competitor, they then acquire a larger market share.

And have no real reason to innovate and expand the Flyer line.

Besides, with the glacial pace that MTH released items from the Showcase Line, it was no serious competition for Lionel/Flyer.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

And have no real reason to innovate and expand the Flyer line.

Besides, with the glacial pace that MTH released items from the Showcase Line, it was no serious competition for Lionel/Flyer.

Rusty

Yes, that is a real possibility, I agree with you and if this is the outcome does this not show the true colours of L and any commitment for the future to S?  It may just reinforce some people’s view as to L’s long term investment as being minimal at best.

As an outside view it would be interesting to see if L may consider picking up the S Helper/MTH product line, then that may be a game changer.

@Ukaflyer posted:

Yes, that is a real possibility, I agree with you and if this is the outcome does this not show the true colours of L and any commitment for the future to S?  It may just reinforce some people’s view as to L’s long term investment as being minimal at best.

As an outside view it would be interesting to see if L may consider picking up the S Helper/MTH product line, then that may be a game changer.

Flyer Showcase?  I can just see Lionel plopping the SHS/MTH freight cars on standard Flyer trucks.  Well, maybe not, but I'd wager the scale wheel option would go bye-bye.

Also, I'm not sure Legacy would fit in the F-units without extensive redesign work.  Things are pretty tight in there right now:

After all MTH's reworking for DCS bore a good responsibility for the F3's taking 4 years to produce.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Flyer Showcase?  I can just see Lionel plopping the SHS/MTH freight cars on standard Flyer trucks.  Well, maybe not, but I'd wager the scale wheel option would go bye-bye.

Also, I'm not sure Legacy would fit in the F-units without extensive redesign work.  Things are pretty tight in there right now:

After all MTH's reworking for DCS bore a good responsibility for the F3's taking 4 years to produce.

Rusty

Flyer Showcase sounds novel, but it could turn out as Flyer Slowcase.  Jesting about Flyer trucks on SHS/MTH freight cars may not be as funny as you said, especially if they have zillions to use for whatever reason, keeps cost down with a cheap option.

if they can’t shoe horn in Legacy what about LionChief? When I looked inside my PE engine it all seemed small and compact. I would do a comparison with my SHS F3 but I am not that inclined to be honest, this is all a bit of fun at the moment on possible conjecture.

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Boot Lionel out the rear door of an old wooden crummy.  American Models is my bid for the continuation of the S Helper service line of S scale products.  It's a natural considering all the neat products AM already offers in their extensive S scale line.

Item: The National Association of S Gaugers (www.nasg.org) has a new improved web site.  A visit is well worth your time.

As much as I enjoy AM products, I don't think they're in a position to buy the SHS/MTH tooling. 

It's an academic at this point anyway and should be the subject of a different thread.  We'll probably know one way or the other in a few months if the MTH Showcase Line is sold to someone.  If someone does buy the Showcase Line, I hope they take the time to try to understand the S market.

As to Gilbert's 75th, we'll know in a couple of weeks.

Rusty

Ron would not buy MTH S Helper stuff.  He is in his 70s and hopes he can find a buyer for AM in the future when I talked with him last.  He said he didn't have any family members interested in his company.  Besides he has plenty of his tooling to produce what he likes.  Face it S Helper died with MTH.

Look further down on topics and you will see Lionel will issue its 2020 catalog on January 20th with the new Flyer and have an online display of the new Flyer on the 2nd of February.  In 15 days we will have our answers.

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

Ron would not buy MTH S Helper stuff.  He is in his 70s and hopes he can find a buyer for AM in the future when I talked with him last.

Oddly, AM would be a better "fit" for Lionel than MTH/SHS. (IMHO)

Rusty

@Trinity River Bottoms Boomer posted:

Roundhouse Bill, thanks for the news about AM.  It sure helps when one knows the facts.

Rusty, I'm beginning to see the light at the end of the tunnel afterall.

Thanks to both of you!

Joe

The trouble is we're still in a tunnel!

Rusty

Getting back to the subject at hand.

It ain't gonna happen but:

I still think the best way to honor Gilbert's 75th is with a locomotive ACG considered but never built: The C&O Allegheny (2-6-6-6) in Legacy with a level of detail rivaling the Y3.

Rusty

I would buy a couple of Allegheny's, plus a few Legacy Hudson's. However like the man said, "it ain't gonna happen." I would buy multiples of any new Legacy steam engine, but I am not expecting to see any.

so the flyer stuff isn't coming til febuary ? somebody help me figure this out

Catalog with AK on Jan. 20th, facebook/youtube talk on Feb 2nd.

Whoops, AF

It's interesting that Lionel's going to the "flip over" catalog concept.  Bachmann's been using that format for years now.  I guess it's to make a clear divider between O and S products so as not to confuse our O Gauge brethren.

I just hope I don't have to turn my monitor over to view the AF catalog.

Rusty

Here's another possibility for you:  The molds in China are owned by China, NOT THE MANUFACTURER (it doesn't matter who or where they were made. IHC from Philly was put out of business by this, and today I was informed that S helper and Aristo craft were both victims as well.

It is possible that since Lionel had a working relationship with MTH (from what i've heard Lionel and MTH were made at the same factory), that some S Helper may be released as Flyer for the 75th anniversary.

Food for thought?

@Francine posted:

Here's another possibility for you:  The molds in China are owned by China, NOT THE MANUFACTURER (it doesn't matter who or where they were made. IHC from Philly was put out of business by this, and today I was informed that S helper and Aristo craft were both victims as well.

It is possible that since Lionel had a working relationship with MTH (from what i've heard Lionel and MTH were made at the same factory), that some S Helper may be released as Flyer for the 75th anniversary.

Food for thought?

S Helper was put out of business by Sanda Kan essentially "firing" their customers to concentrate on making trains for large customers.

From the NASG website:

"2010: Sanda Kan (the main Chinese manufacturer) stopped making models for many companies, including S-Helper Service.
2012: nearing retirement age and not being able to retrieve their tooling from China, Don announced that MTH Electric Trains bought the company's tooling."

The 2021 Flyer catalog was likely put to bed long before Mike Wolf announced his retirement.  IF there is a buyer waiting in the wings for the Showcase Line, we probably won't know until MTH finally turns off the lights and locks the door around April-May-June.

Rusty

For Flyer's 75th anniversary I would like to see Lionel produce the Pennsylvania K-5, the 2 in 1 whistling billboard and a set of Pennsylvania Madison cars with the operating brakeman on the back of the obervation car..

@Ukaflyer posted:

As we know, Lionel have been using China as a manufacturing base for what I believe is 30 years or so. I seem to remember that at the time they said the reason for shifting production to China was to make items more affordable and cheaper.

Cheaper for them perhaps.

There are rumors floating that Scale Trains is interested in buying some portion of MTH. Could that include S scale? I doubt it, but it will be interesting to watch.

PHILA ....They would probably only sell two, but I would love to have a remake of the transformer for my 1953 set. I still have he original, but reluctant to use it. I run on a modern transformer.

@TURTLE 2 posted:

PHILA ....They would probably only sell two, but I would love to have a remake of the transformer for my 1953 set. I still have he original, but reluctant to use it. I run on a modern transformer.

i love the original American Flyer transformers and if lionel remakes them i just might have to get one to run my o gauge too they are AC right?

Remaking Flyer transformers would be a waste of time and resources better devoted to S FasTrack, rolling stock and locomotive development.  Particularly as Flyer now comes with either FlyerChief or Legacy.

Even if Lionel would remake, say, the 30B transformer, it would be like the modern ZW: A repro case with internal electronics powered by external bricks.  Probably costing around 500 bucks.

There are plenty of alternatives for transformers out there.

Rusty

The odds of any sort of new tooling for anything related to AF 75th seems like a pipe dream.  

I think you will see a return of the K Line big boy, if the tooling is still available to L.  I also think you will see a iconic set or two from the Gilbert days make a reappearance.  But that’s it.  

Ben

@NotInWI posted:

The odds of any sort of new tooling for anything related to AF 75th seems like a pipe dream.  

I think you will see a return of the K Line big boy, if the tooling is still available to L.  I also think you will see a iconic set or two from the Gilbert days make a reappearance.  But that’s it.  

Ben

I could be interested in a newly-tooled and properly scaled Big Boy, but the ex K-Line Large Lad?

No...

Regardless, we'll know in 10 days.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

I could be interested in a newly-tooled and properly scaled Big Boy, but the ex K-Line Large Lad?

No...

Regardless, we'll know in 10 days.

Rusty

Wouldn’t they just need to tool for the engine? The tender I thought was the same basically as the one used on the Challenger, which is in proportion I believe and has a lot of detail for most people.  

Also, could the chassis that they did use on the K line engine for ‘S’  be suitable for a new scale boiler shell?  So bottom line, could they just get away with a new boiler shell with some mods elsewhere. Not my area of expertise on the BB’s and Challengers, let the experts chip in here.

@Ukaflyer posted:

Wouldn’t they just need to tool for the engine? The tender I thought was the same basically as the one used on the Challenger, which is in proportion I believe and has a lot of detail for most people.  

Also, could the chassis that they did use on the K line engine for ‘S’  be suitable for a new scale boiler shell?  So bottom line, could they just get away with a new boiler shell with some mods elsewhere. Not my area of expertise on the BB’s and Challengers, let the experts chip in here.

The Boiler would definitely need a new tool.

Lionel could use the previous Challenger's tender tooling as the K-Line's is mis-prortioned.  There is no difference in the prototype world between the 3900 class Challenger and the Big Boy tenders.  Indeed, the 4014 currently is using the 3985's tender.

I'm not sure if there were any compromises for the drive, but it would need at least new cylinder tools.  The Big Boy's cylinders were larger than the Challengers and the K-Line's are also mis-proportioned.

So, there would be some cost savings with some reuse, just as there was with the Legacy Berkshire.

Rusty

The Big Boy used the O gauge driveline and Legacy boards. With a scale sized shell the electronics would need to be replaced with, most likely, updated Y-3 components. All the electrical and electronics in the old Big Boy is long out of production.

RE: Lionel-AF Big Boy

There appears to be some confusion (above) regarding this engine. The Big Boy was made using the K-Line 0-31 boiler, tender, trailing truck, and tender lead truck tooling. New non-articulated split two-motor running gear was tooled to run on S gauge track fitted with the Legacy and RS boards of the period (circa. 2009) along with an Electrocoupler(TM). S gauge wheels were fitted to the not-scale trailing truck and tender.  Although the engine and tender are shorter than they should be, the principle sin (among several) as a model is the height of the engine and tender. As built, the model will negotiate Gilbert curves, but turnouts can be a significant struggle, particularly in reverse. In order to manufacture an all new, accurate UP Big Boy, almost everything except the scale-sized Challenger tender would need to be newly tooled ($!!). If one is interested in the details, I reviewed the Big Boy for the March/April 2010 issue of S Gaugian.

I own a sample that has the great benefit of the Carl Tuveson mods whereby both operation and appearance are much improved. As modified, it is a fun engine to run with the best quality sounds of any Lionel AF steam engine to date. Unfortunately, it is still over 2 scale ft. too tall, as well as over 4 ft. too short. Oh, well.

Have fun.

Bob

The L-AF Big Boy as delivered:

My 4014 also has all the Carl Tuveson mods, it is the best running Legacy engine made in S. Here are some comparison pictures with a Challenger.

Nice to see some good Big Boy/Challenger comparison shots, Tom.

It helps in my opinion that IF Lionel would do another Flyer Big Boy, it should be true S Scale proportioned, as the price tag would probably be over $1000.00.  Again, my opinion.

But, it's probably a moot point.  I expect it'll be a couple of years before we see another Flyer Legacy steam locomotive.

Rusty

These two engines aren't Gilbert.  Any new tooling for the 75th anniversary should be on Gilbert updated engines.  In the past the Hudson was probably the favorite.

@Bob Bubeck posted:

RE: Lionel-AF Big Boy

There appears to be some confusion (above) regarding this engine. The Big Boy was made using the K-Line 0-31 boiler, tender, trailing truck, and tender lead truck tooling. New non-articulated split two-motor running gear was tooled to run on S gauge track fitted with the Legacy and RS boards of the period (circa. 2009) along with an Electrocoupler(TM). S gauge wheels were fitted to the not-scale trailing truck and tender.  Although the engine and tender are shorter than they should be, the principle sin (among several) as a model is the height of the engine and tender. As built, the model will negotiate Gilbert curves, but turnouts can be a significant struggle, particularly in reverse. In order to manufacture an all new, accurate UP Big Boy, almost everything except the scale-sized Challenger tender would need to be newly tooled ($!!). If one is interested in the details, I reviewed the Big Boy for the March/April 2010 issue of S Gaugian.

I own a sample that has the great benefit of the Carl Tuveson mods whereby both operation and appearance are much improved. As modified, it is a fun engine to run with the best quality sounds of any Lionel AF steam engine to date. Unfortunately, it is still over 2 scale ft. too tall, as well as over 4 ft. too short. Oh, well.

Have fun.

Bob

The L-AF Big Boy as delivered:

My Big Boy also has the C.T. mods, and is one of my favorites, I am Flyer friendly and love it, oversize and all.

Ray

@Roundhouse Bill posted:

These two engines aren't Gilbert.  Any new tooling for the 75th anniversary should be on Gilbert updated engines.  In the past the Hudson was probably the favorite.

That's why I think the Allegheny would be perfect.  Gilbert thought about producing one, going so far as having a mock-up made.  It would offer a good look back and good look forward.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

That's why I think the Allegheny would be perfect.  Gilbert thought about producing one, going so far as having a mock-up made.  It would offer a good look back and good look forward.

Rusty

Do any photos exist of the Gilbert mock up which can be uploaded here to see what it looks like. I have never seen one published anywhere that I know of.

@Ukaflyer posted:

Do any photos exist of the Gilbert mock up which can be uploaded here to see what it looks like. I have never seen one published anywhere that I know of.

There was a photo in one of the Thouy-McComas books.  The mock-up itself is really underwhelming.  A detail-less turned wood boiler and cab (painted black) over two partial Hudson mechanisms.  Last I heard it was in a private collection.

However, the fact that Gilbert even entertained the thought of doing such a monster in the late 1950's is significant.  Given the likes of the Challenger, Y3 and Legacy Berk, it's well within the abilities of Lionel to build such a model.

I suspect one of the reasons it went no further was the mechanics of the time.  Probably only the rear engine would have been powered.  Small motors and the two-point articulation commonly used today weren't available back then.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

There was a photo in one of the Thouy (Touhy)-McComas books.  The mock-up itself is really underwhelming.  A detail-less turned wood boiler and cab (painted black) over two partial Hudson mechanisms.  Last I heard it was in a private collection.

<snip>

Rusty

Oh, you must mean this:

From my archives - a Gilbert concept model which was in the Dan Olsen collection at the time the picture was taken by TM about 30 years ago. The attached card is a validation of authenticity from Maury Romer.

Enjoy.

Bob

That'd be the one.  A far cry from the way they do things today.

Rusty

It’s been almost a year now since I started this topic.  I had hope that Lionel would say something about some new tooling for the 75th anniversary.  There have been some great ideas that have been suggested and I really hope at least one of them happens.  My fear is what we are going to get is no new tooling but a reissue of a Gilbert piece or pieces that they have not remade since Lionel took it over.  

My first choice would be something new.  My second would be something they showed in previous catalogs but never made (SD40, Mechanical Refer, Fastrack RR crossing etc).  My Third choice would be a remake of an older Gilbert item or set (Circus set, Milk Car or Cattle Loader with Sound) with updated electronics.

I guess we will know in about 1 week.

—Rocco—

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Oh, you must mean this:

From my archives - a Gilbert concept model which was in the Dan Olsen collection at the time the picture was taken by TM about 30 years ago. The attached card is a validation of authenticity from Maury Romer.

Enjoy.

Bob

The drivers look like they are from an 0-8-0/0-6-0. They must have either shortened the 0-8-0 chassis down or possibly used an 0-6-0 B6 chassis, the spacing looks like it is a B6 chassis, difficult to tell. Does the label tell us what year it was done?

It is always fun to wish. But for the Lionel 100th anniversary there was a gold painted or plated engine in a case. For the 120th, another Santa Fe diesel set. Maybe a gold painted Alco PA?

Just like they used to say at work "We must manage our client's expectations".

Back in October of last year, Ryan Kunkle from Lionel indicated that orders for the the latest EP-5 low and it was on the bubble.  He hinted at (expensive) improvements were being made to the locomotive.

I wonder if the EP-5's will be recataloged with mention to the improvements in an effort to increase orders...

We'll know soon, I guess.

Rusty

@Rusty Traque posted:

Back in October of last year, Ryan Kunkle from Lionel indicated that orders for the the latest EP-5 low and it was on the bubble.  He hinted at (expensive) improvements were being made to the locomotive.

I wonder if the EP-5's will be recataloged with mention to the improvements in an effort to increase orders...

We'll know soon, I guess.

Rusty

I could never understand this secretive bit about what is being built and not telling the full story about all the features it will have. If you want to sell something then let everyone know what you will be getting for the money.

I have all the EP-5’s so far and in reality do I really need another one, probably not.

I could never understand this secretive bit about what is being built and not telling the full story about all the features it will have. If you want to sell something then let everyone know what you will be getting for the money.

Isn't that what the catalog is for?

@richabr posted:

I could never understand this secretive bit about what is being built and not telling the full story about all the features it will have. If you want to sell something then let everyone know what you will be getting for the money.

Isn't that what the catalog is for?

You are right but we have seen in the past when bits have not been delivered as shown in the catalog or bits added. If bits have been removed and you have a deposit down then it can be a bit late to change your mind.

@Ukaflyer posted:

The drivers look like they are from an 0-8-0/0-6-0. They must have either shortened the 0-8-0 chassis down or possibly used an 0-6-0 B6 chassis, the spacing looks like it is a B6 chassis, difficult to tell. Does the label tell us what year it was done?

I did not take the photo, so I am speculating, too. The appearance suggests the use of 0-8-0 wheels in standard 6-wheel drive chassis (or black-painted wood blocks). The two chassis are not the stock B6b chassis because the wheel spacing is even. I suggest not overworking the concept. The Gilbert product folks were just trying an idea on for size, not "considering production". The cost to tool a finished piece such as this along with the practicalities of the cab overhang probably quickly led to putting the idea aside. I would place the piece as circa. mid-50's.

To celebrate 75 years of Gilbert S gauge, I would opt for an all-new detailed Legacy K5 or J3a with heavies to match. This would offer a truly classic Gilbert set (harking back to even the late 1930's in the 3/16" scale O gauge trains) updated to present practice and customer expectations. And, I feel this would sell well. But, that's just I.

Bob

I don't think I'm overworking the concept.  Just fascinated that it was even thought of back in the 50's and that it is something that could be made today.

Rusty

@Bob Bubeck posted:

To celebrate 75 years of Gilbert S gauge, I would opt for an all-new detailed Legacy K5 or J3a with heavies to match. This would offer a truly classic Gilbert set (harking back to even the late 1930's in the 3/16" scale O gauge trains) updated to present practice and customer expectations. And, I feel this would sell well. But, that's just I.

Bob

If I had to pick one it would have to be the K5, only because I have more Hudson’s than K5’s.  Hudson’s seemed to be more popular over here for some reason. I know Lionel have the tooling for the Hudson but did any bits survive into the Lionel era for the K5?  

Lionel have already done the heavies for the PRR, so they are already part way to doing that combination already.

@Ukaflyer posted:

If I had to pick one it would have to be the K5, only because I have more Hudson’s than K5’s.  Hudson’s seemed to be more popular over here for some reason. I know Lionel have the tooling for the Hudson but did any bits survive into the Lionel era for the K5?  

The tooling for the K5 and the 0-8-0 was showing signs of decline with the 21115's and 21145's from 1958. When Lionel opted to reintroduce the Northern, they quickly found that the old tools would not make a satisfactory product and had to retool almost the whole model (the only carried over piece was the pilot casting). I doubt that the old Hudson tool is much better. Please recall that much of the Gilbert die cast boiler tooling (except for the New Haven Pacific) dates from the late 1930's. All-new tooling would likely be required for a desirable result.

Bob

"Boy O Boy O Boy",

I remember when trains used to be fun and I had friends who played with them.

Ray

Congrats...we had about a half dozen alerts to the bickering about prices, etc. that took this thread off the original intent.  AND, we spent about a half hour of our time to editing out all or most of those responses.  Don't have time to do it again so the topic is closed.