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@traindavid posted:

all very true! However it IS a significant anniversary date and so far all "we" have is a very expensive passenger train fantasy set (with a very odd paint scheme) and a nice commemorative boxcar. Is anyone at "Big L" listening??? We aren't O guagers and we do have different tastes & desires than they do.

That's not all we have from the Jan. catalogue.  The release of a new Legacy locomotive, the USRA Pacific, is only the 2nd new S scale Legacy engine to come out in the last 9 years.  Eventhough it is using the tooling from the previous TMCC version as a starting point, this is a major statement by Lionel that they are still willing to serve this small market.  My expectation was that we would never see a new Legacy loco, but they proved me wrong in a big way.  And gave me hope that they might do a Legacy Mikado in the future, again using the old TMCC version as a basis.

I ordered a NYC and the GN. I have one of all the TMCC Mikado's but will order some with Legacy depending on road names offered.

Both the Pacific and Mikado TMCC engines are excellent looking and with fan driven smoke units and CC added they are excellent runners. Since Gilbert never made any freight engines with two wheel pilot trucks the Mikado and the the Berkshire were welcome releases.

Right, the original Seuthe smoke units barely functioned with the Seuthe smoke fluid and not at all with any other brand. All my Mikado's and light Pacific's have undergone a Seuthectomy. They now have MTH fan driven smoke units. No issues at all now, they smoke as well as any Lionel Legacy steam engine. A Cruise Commander board was also installed so they run far better than original.

For details of all the work involved look at the tuveson.com website. All mine are the updated conversion shown on the site. With just minor feature variations these engines are now as good as the Y3.

@AmFlyer posted:

The only other steamer Lionel has modern tooling for and has not been released with Legacy is the Northern.

My kids have the Flyerchief Northern and it would require a decent investment to get it up to Legacy standards, similar to what they did with the Berkshire. But that would be pretty cool. I am happy with my AM Northern, but I will buy any new Legacy loco that comes out as long as it is in a prototypical road name or can easily be converted from fantasy livery to real livery as I'll be doing with the forthcoming Pacific.

Chuck, Carl did a one -off conversion of my FlyerChief Northern to TMCC/Railsounds. I do not think it is documented on his website. I feel it was worth the cost to get much better operation on my layout using the Legacy control system. If you look on his website at the conversion he did with the FlyerChief Berkshire the result is the same but there were some challenges unique to the Northern in completing the conversion.

@AmFlyer posted:

Chuck, Carl did a one -off conversion of my FlyerChief Northern to TMCC/Railsounds. I do not think it is documented on his website. I feel it was worth the cost to get much better operation on my layout using the Legacy control system. If you look on his website at the conversion he did with the FlyerChief Berkshire the result is the same but there were some challenges unique to the Northern in completing the conversion.

The Legacy electronics would fit with no problem.  I see the needed investment more in the aesthetics. Similar to the Berks, a Legacy version would need much more detail and separately applied components.

@AmFlyer posted:

Right, the original Seuthe smoke units barely functioned with the Seuthe smoke fluid and not at all with any other brand. All my Mikado's and light Pacific's have undergone a Seuthectomy. They now have MTH fan driven smoke units. No issues at all now, they smoke as well as any Lionel Legacy steam engine. A Cruise Commander board was also installed so they run far better than original.

For details of all the work involved look at the tuveson.com website. All mine are the updated conversion shown on the site. With just minor feature variations these engines are now as good as the Y3.

I converted my Mike to DCC with the intent that I would add a fan driven smoke unit. However, I could not find a unit small enough to fit in that tiny space between the motor and the front of the boiler. They probably exist for the HO market, but I came up empty. I'd love to know what Carl used. His website shows an upgrade to the seuthe unit but not the upgrade to fan driven.  I ended up just putting in a much better seuthe unit, but it is still a far cry from a smoke driven unit.

@Chuck K posted:

I converted my Mike to DCC with the intent that I would add a fan driven smoke unit. However, I could not find a unit small enough to fit in that tiny space between the motor and the front of the boiler. They probably exist for the HO market, but I came up empty. I'd love to know what Carl used. His website shows an upgrade to the seuthe unit but not the upgrade to fan driven.  I ended up just putting in a much better seuthe unit, but it is still a far cry from a smoke driven unit.

The Mike conversion that uses the MTH smoke unit needs to have the motor changed.  Details at:

http://www.tuveson.com/nyc-mikado/nyc-mikado.html

It had been a while since I watched that video and now I am again reminded of how good the AM NYC heavyweights look. Maybe I need some after all.

I had forgotten about the single start worm modification. On speed step one these engines just creep along. I have seven of these conversions (Mikados and Pacifics) and can attest they are worth every penny of the cost to have Carl do these mods.

Tom - so who did the Sleuthectomy (nice play with words... good 'un)?  DIY or Carl or ?  Do the MTH units 'go right in' or is some further disassembly required?  Hmm - are the MTH units still available?  I really do like both the mikado and the pacific from the mid-aughts, but the smoke units really do suck.  I haven't fired up the smoke unit on my new Berk (Flyerchief) yet - hopefully it will be ok with the Anormal smoke fluid, of which I have a lifetime supply (works great on my old Gilbert steamers).

-Rich

The Mike conversion that uses the MTH smoke unit needs to have the motor changed.  Details at:

http://www.tuveson.com/nyc-mikado/nyc-mikado.html

Thanks Carl.  If I can find that motor, I will revisit my Mike and try this conversion. I have a few of those MTH smoke units and have used them in other customizations including installing one in an AM Pacific.  I tried some motors from NWSL, but the worms that fit them wouldn't work with the worm gear in the Mike. It is good to know that the AM worms will work and that they fit the shaft of this motor. I have a couple of those on hand.

@richs09 posted:

Tom - so who did the Sleuthectomy (nice play with words... good 'un)?  DIY or Carl or ?  Do the MTH units 'go right in' or is some further disassembly required?  Hmm - are the MTH units still available?  I really do like both the mikado and the pacific from the mid-aughts, but the smoke units really do suck.  I haven't fired up the smoke unit on my new Berk (Flyerchief) yet - hopefully it will be ok with the Anormal smoke fluid, of which I have a lifetime supply (works great on my old Gilbert steamers).

-Rich

Check the link that Carl posted above and you will see what is involved. The MTH units may still be a available. I bought a few when the closure announcement came out. The part number is on Carl's page.

Anormal works fine with Lionel's smoke units in my experience.

@AmFlyer posted:

Chuck, Carl did a one -off conversion of my FlyerChief Northern to TMCC/Railsounds. I do not think it is documented on his website. I feel it was worth the cost to get much better operation on my layout using the Legacy control system. If you look on his website at the conversion he did with the FlyerChief Berkshire the result is the same but there were some challenges unique to the Northern in completing the conversion.

I, myself, did a conversion of my conventional Flyonel Northern to TMCC. I was fortunate enough that I had a Cruise lite board and an ERR Sound Converter. I found enough room to do the conversion and still use the Railsounds that came in the tender. I need to look at the fan driven smoke unit.

Ray

Thanks Carl!  I'll be ordering one and trying this project. I have more than enough projects lined up, but I am happy to revisit this one and get a chuffing unit installed as I originally envisioned.  Unfortunately, it will probably take a long time to get the decoder programming set correctly. I used an ESU decoder with the power to drive a smoke unit, and they are very sensitive to the type of motor when getting the chuff timing synched with wheel rotation. It is a trial and error process with about 7 different CV's.

I am usually pretty realistic and tough on S scale product releases, but I'm actually surprised that it's in a better spot than I thought it would be at this point. I bought 2 Legacy Berks, ordered 2 Legacy Pacifics, and will order at least 2 Legacy Mikados depending on roadnames. I would certainly order more of all three of those models if multiple numbers were offered. I have a feeling Lionel will run a new set of numbers at some point. That's always been the SOP so wouldn't expect that to change. That gives the ability to build a nice little roster of Legacy steam. Add the Y3s and Challengers from years past and it only gets better. For S even I will admit that's not too shabby. When ScaleTrains re-releases the SHS 2-8-0 with ESU Loksound and smoke unit I can honestly say I could be happy with the roster that I've built for my little Freelance tourist / Shortline RR. I'll take more though, don't get me wrong! A Legacy Hudson would be the cat's pajamas! I'd take a newly tooled Legacy 0-8-0 or 0-6-0 without complaint too.

REALLY hoping Lionel surprises us with the LONG awaited Legacy SD40 in the July catalog!

@Chuck K posted:

Me too, but now I am forgetting...did we hear from the Lionel guys that producing these was their intent?

I believe the word was "possibly" on the Mikados, depending on how well the Pacifics do.

I guess the Pacifics are doing OK, the only cancellation I heard of was from the BM&R excursion train set.

Still, there's no guarantee the Mikes would show up in the upcoming catalog, or maybe in the 2022 catalog.  We shall see in about a month.

Rusty

It was heavily insinuated that if the Pacifics sold well the Mikados would follow at some point. The Mikado tooling was “found” along with the Pacifics apparently. I see that the Pacifics are sold out at many sites and Lionel has committed to production other than the set Rusty mentioned so I think it’s pretty safe to say they are doing well.

I love these two models and I’m really glad they are doing them in full Legacy trim. I’ve already written them and asked for more road numbers and road names. I could see purchasing 8-10 total if they do different numbers and roads I want.

Last edited by jonnyspeed

The only difference between the Pacifics and Mikados was the locomotive chassis, the boiler and tender are identical.

Smokebox fronts on past models had either a high or centered headlight, depending on road.  What remains to be seen is if that option continues.

Same for the Elesco feedwater heater.

That said, both are good candidates for repeated releases.  While only 5 railroads had USRA or copy Light Pacifics, they present a good stand-in for other railroads.  If I recall correctly, over 50 railroads had the the Light Mike or copies.  Fertile ground.

Rusty

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