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Looked like the going asking price was around $150-175 (less than I expected).  Saw one seller that had 4 or 5 for sale.

OTOH, I saw a couple of cab2 legacy systems for sale for much higher prices.  I find this interesting, since the Cab1 remote is still available and is being supported, while the Cab2 is not.  Since the remote is the component most likely to fail or wear out, I'm curious as to why someone would pay big bucks for one at this point. 

@Mallard4468 posted:

OTOH, I saw a couple of cab2 legacy systems for sale for much higher prices.  I find this interesting, since the Cab1 remote is still available and is being supported, while the Cab2 is not.  Since the remote is the component most likely to fail or wear out, I'm curious as to why someone would pay big bucks for one at this point.

My take ...

- The 990 Legacy package contains the base and the remote. The 990 base is critical in addition to the remote as it provides the functionality to the track. This is what the Base3 replaces.
- the Cab2 remote is much more feature reach then the Cab1 remote.

Cab1 remote needs to communicate to a base and the options would be a Cab1 base / TMCC command base or a Cab2 base. When the Base3 is released (spring 2024?) if you want a physical remote, the Cab1 remote is an option. If you want something now, you need a Base.  For anyone newer in the hobby over the last year, the 990 Cab2 package was ideal.

I also came across several CAB-1 remotes selling for $70-80.  I have a number of spares, so I didn't bite.

Someone in a member hall was selling a Command Set box.  Really?  You're going to buy a box for your Command Base and CAB-1 and lock it in a display case?  Okey-dokey.    I guess if you need to store it, that makes sense.

I had a wonderful York meet.  I picked up a couple of Woodland Scenics Structures kits, an MTH B70 baggage car, and an MTH 5-story building that can be modified and weathered to look more realistic.

Question:  Attendance at this meet was reported as 7200.  What were the last 2 Fall meet numbers like?

George

@G3750 posted:

Question:  Attendance at this meet was reported as 7200.  What were the last 2 Fall meet numbers like?

Based on Clem's Primer at https://www.tcatrains.org/wp-c...Primer-Fall-2023.pdf these are the past few attendance numbers:

Oct ‘19 Total Registrations = 9207
Apr 2020, Oct 2020, Apr 2020 Closed, Closed, Closed
October 2021 Total Registrations – 9864
April 2022 Total Registrations – 7500
October 2022 Total Registrations - 7450
April, 2023 Total Registrations ~ 7200

@eddie g posted:

Who cares what the attendance was. Does it make a difference?

Actually, it does make some difference. I don't worry about the future of the hobby overall because indications I receive (including from vendors at York) is that business in the hobby in many areas/segments is quite strong and growing. The emphasis of OGR magazine is on operations, and advertisers I have spoken with recently indicated that things are going well with the products they provide, including custom layout building, track components, special run locomotives and rolling stock, structures of all types, scenic materials, built-to-order revenues, and so forth.

The TCA Eastern Division York Meet appears to be slowly but surely evolving (probably not the best term in light of what is happening) back to its roots as a collector-oriented event. That's perfectly fine if that's what the organizers want and expect, but I don't see that approach holding much of a draw for the growing number of hobbyists who are more interested in contemporary products and control systems, layout building, and operations.

Virtually all of the major vendors I spoke with this past week would prefer a two-day York Meet (again), along some incentives to make their participation more viable, such as arrangements made for a group rate with select area hotels to help keep their costs down.

Again based on discussions I had with Orange Hall (primarily) vendors, it will be interesting to see how things shape up for the April 2024 meet.

@David_NJ posted:

My take ...

- The 990 Legacy package contains the base and the remote. The 990 base is critical in addition to the remote as it provides the functionality to the track. This is what the Base3 replaces.
- the Cab2 remote is much more feature reach then the Cab1 remote.

Cab1 remote needs to communicate to a base and the options would be a Cab1 base / TMCC command base or a Cab2 base. When the Base3 is released (spring 2024?) if you want a physical remote, the Cab1 remote is an option. If you want something now, you need a Base.  For anyone newer in the hobby over the last year, the 990 Cab2 package was ideal.

No argument that the Cab2 has more features and functionality.  As you noted, the Cab3 will replace the functionality of the Cab2 base, so the only reason IMO to buy a Cab2 set is to get the remote.  Clearly, people want to have a dedicated remote, but Lionel has decided to discontinue the Cab2, supposedly due to lack of availability of components, and it doesn't look like they will reverse that decision.  Thus, the remote has a very limited future for parts and support, so I question the wisdom of paying a premium price for something that will eventually stop working and can't be repaired or replaced.

Very frustrating situation for newcomers to the hobby.

I arrived on Thursday around 1pm. I was there Thurs until 5pm when the member halls closed and then Saturday from 9am opening until 4pm.

That comes out to about 4 hrs + 7 hrs = 11 hours total. I went through the dealer hall twice and the member halls twice.
I spent more $$ on Saturday and about 50/50 between dealer vs member sales. In total I spent about $600 at the show which is probably WAY less than many that were there.
My wife spent WAY MORE than $600 antiquing on Fri & Sat.

Did I miss out anything due to the new pre-show days - no idea.  Would I have bought more if some items were still available Thurs/Fri - maybe, but I might have spent the same total $$, not that I had any specific budget as I had no idea what I would find at my first York.

I could take off work Thurs & Fri but not everyone could swing that, and of course, thats not an issue for those that are now retired. I plan to go again and focus on just Thurs & Fri with a 1 night hotel vs 2 nights. I could see how it is much more expensive for the dealers - setup/take down time, hotels for more nights possible with multiple hotel rooms needed, cost of the tables, food, etc. To me, that is the cost of doing business. I hope the benefit, at the time of the show or in future sales, more than then covered their expenses. Just as there is a less tangible social aspect to the attendees, the same would be true for the dealers who interact with existing and new customers.

My suggestion based on 1 person and 1 trip would be to leave it the same - mid Thurs thru Saturday.  I wouldn't want it longer and if it was shorter, it might impact my ability to get through it all.

I did very well from my tables in the Blue Hall, and even had a pretty good Saturday.  I could hardly get away from my tables on Thursday and only managed to see Blue and part of Silver Halls.  Friday was almost as busy.  I still managed to find a bunch of stuff to bring home, including one of the items on my "Unicorn List" (as in it might be easier to find a unicorn...).   Our pre-meet activities included two days at the bandit meets followed by  two trips to Strasburg to visit the Toy Train Museum, Choo Choo Barn, Pennsylvania RR Museum, Strasburg Train Shop, and the Lower Susquehanna Valley Railroad Club open house (on the way back from Strasburg).  Overall, I had a fantastic time!

Andy

Last edited by Andy Hummell

This was my 4th York in 2 years, so can’t offer any comments about what it used to be.  I would say for me, I finally got enough experience to get what York is about.  1st time is an overwhelming.  Trying to figure out everything and get used to how business is done at York.  Each time you go back you get more efficient.  You get familiar as to where specific members and dealers are located and who has the best chance to have what you want at a possible price you want it for.

When I say I finally get it, after 4 trips, you get to know enough people that you spend just as much if not more time talking vs shopping.  You find people to eat with in the evenings and the entire trip becomes much more enjoyable.  I can understand why so many members go to the shows year after year.

In regards to the event itself, I am much more optimistic about its future.  While not a spring chicken, I definitely bring down the average age at York.  I knew about York many years before going.  The opinion of younger hobbyists were not positive about the event.  I had the expectation of a bunch of curmudgeons selling old trains to each other.  Many young hobbyists, including my 20 something son had no interest in York.  Now with the growth of social media and content creators, more younger people see the opportunities of the event and are voicing desires to go.  There is a bunch of positive discussion on Discord about this show that didn’t exist 2 years ago.  From what I see, they’re also willing to spend serious money.  Most of the dealers of the modern stuff I talked to were pleased with sales this show.  I like the investment the TCA is doing to welcome the content creators and YouTubers.  I’ve been everyone of their meet and greets and the crowd keeps growing, with more children each time.

I was surprised at seeing the large numbers of young guys, in their 20-30’s wandering around. More yute than I have ever seen at York. That’s encouraging, they are the future of the hobby.

I also saw more “PUBLIC” badges than I have ever seen.

Good stuff!

This train in the parking lot cracked me up…

IMG_2533

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Last edited by Craignor
@Mallard4468 posted:

No argument that the Cab2 has more features and functionality.  As you noted, the Cab3 will replace the functionality of the Cab2 base, so the only reason IMO to buy a Cab2 set is to get the remote.  Clearly, people want to have a dedicated remote, but Lionel has decided to discontinue the Cab2, supposedly due to lack of availability of components, and it doesn't look like they will reverse that decision.  Thus, the remote has a very limited future for parts and support, so I question the wisdom of paying a premium price for something that will eventually stop working and can't be repaired or replaced.

Very frustrating situation for newcomers to the hobby.

I've been in the hobby since Spring on 2023 so how long should a person wait to have command control/legacy control? Yes, if the engine is also bluetooth enabled, you can get away with the dedicated remote or universal remote and some folks that are new have just gotten bluetooth devices as it would be the only way they could run them vs other Legacy items. Same goes for other command control items and accessories.

The newer folks over the past 2 years are the ones paying crazy $$ for something to provide that functionality.

@David_NJ posted:

I've been in the hobby since Spring on 2023 so how long should a person wait to have command control/legacy control? Yes, if the engine is also bluetooth enabled, you can get away with the dedicated remote or universal remote and some folks that are new have just gotten bluetooth devices as it would be the only way they could run them vs other Legacy items. Same goes for other command control items and accessories.

The newer folks over the past 2 years are the ones paying crazy $$ for something to provide that functionality.

There are several threads on the forum about the lunacy of manufacturing and selling trains for which there are no control systems available.  It's a huge problem that is probably turning a lot of folks off.

Personally, I'm in the same boat regarding Legacy - I don't have Cab2 and was finally planning to get it - I came to that conclusion right about the time that Covid caused the supply chain issues, but I'm not going to sink crazy money into it at this point.  Fortunately, I already had Cab1 and DCS components.

@Craignor posted:

I was surprised at seeing the large numbers of young guys, in their 20-30’s wandering around. More yute than I have ever seen at York. That’s encouraging, they are the future of the hobby.

I also saw more “PUBLIC” badges than I have ever seen.

Good stuff!

This train in the parking lot cracked me up…

IMG_2533

Thanks for posting that pic - I saw it, but my hands were full at the time so I couldn't take a picture.

Does anyone remember (or have a picture of) the camping trailer which was painted in Lionel orange and blue that used to park near the end of the purple hall?  It hasn't been there for several years - I'm guessing that the owner probably "aged out" of the hobby.

York is overwhelming - 5 football fields worth of trains.  York has effectively become a week long show, including the bandit meets.

I got a good deal of trains at York at good prices.

For me, there's a lot of apres train activity at York.  This year it was the Western Maryland Scenic Railway, Strasburg Railroad, and East Broad Top.  EBT is 2 1/2 hours from York via the PA Turnpike.

Only thing I missed was meeting up with a friend; she cancelled due to illness.

One thing I'd like to see more of at York are "scrounger" trains.  These are trains that can be parted out.  I needed a K-Line tank car frame; I found a tank car at the right price that'll give me a donor frame.

Another thing I'd like to see more of are diesels that are good runners with cosmetically poor shells.  I've bought nice repro shells that need a mechanism; mechanisms are hard to find at an affordable price and condition.

@cbq9911a posted:

One thing I'd like to see more of at York are "scrounger" trains.  These are trains that can be parted out.  I needed a K-Line tank car frame; I found a tank car at the right price that'll give me a donor frame.

Another thing I'd like to see more of are diesels that are good runners with cosmetically poor shells.  I've bought nice repro shells that need a mechanism; mechanisms are hard to find at an affordable price and condition.

Neely’s in the Orange Hall had a ton of that sort of stuff, as well as one of the dealers from Florida. I can’t remember the name.  

Was there Wednesday, Thursday and half day Friday. I had a list of mostly postwar and a few modern items. Half my list was done at the parking lot Wednesday. A few items Thurs and none Friday.  
I think the show was good for the most part.  I bypassed anyone that had no prices listed.  There were a few.   The other problem was unattended booths.  I had to pass on a few purchases when the owner couldn’t be found.  A big sale was passed on after waiting 40 minutes for “he will be right back”.

I would agree with a two day show Friday and Saturday if all vendors committed to not packing up early.   And the aisles were widened.   Some buildings had a wide center aisle, that was nice.

Another York in the books for me. Been attending since joining in 1992, missing it once for illness and the 3 times closed for covid. Have seen York from the days of all the campers and folks parking in the grandstand fields as the paved lots were full.
We got there on Friday at 9am and easily parked between the red and silver on the grass by the water fountain memorial. I noticed a lot less campers, probably due to gas prices. I’m starting to join the elder crowd now that I joined the Medicare folks’ crowd this year! Lol! Still able to get around to the halls with no problems due to having a 34 year career that never sat behind a desk and walked around 50,000-100,000 sq ft stores.
Anyway, I did notice more younger folks at York which is encouraging.
This was my return to York on a Friday/Saturday routine since going on Saturday is the day to buy what’s left, plenty to buy. I found what I was looking for and bought a MTH scale green 5 stripe proto 1 GG1 for an excellent price. I’m very selective these days as I have way more trains to keep me set!
As for TMCC, I saw sets at decent prices, command bases only for $50 and saw a cab 1 remote for $60. I still think the cab 1 with their base works very well. I like my trusty ole cab 1!

By the way, the attendance was at 7,199, not 7,200 as noted because our veteran York spokesperson from Maine left early. Eddie G, I missed seeing you this time and looking forward to catching up with you next April!
Another good York to look back at!

It was a great time, and I miss being there already. I judge how much fun I'm having not by buying things, but how much I talk. I told my boss that for about every minute looking for something, I spent about 5-10 minutes talking. I told him that on Saturday I spent over 35 minutes talking when I was supposed to be leaving and be on the road. It didn't matter because I had a blast talking about Weaver's New Haven I5 before heading to the Jennings booth quickly, then over to the River City 3 Railers layout to have a quick chat there, which took even more time. Fun chats, that's what it's all about.

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