Can someone supply me with a photo of the wiring inside the car? I have a lose wire from the coil, and when I connect it to where I think it should be I get no response from the coil. Any ideas? I have invested a fair amount already to try and restore the car to operation. Thanks,
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I was surprised that Greenberg’s Repair and Operating Manual for Lionel Trains did not have a schematic for the electric wiring. Perhaps someone can provide a photograph of the interior.
Yes, that is why I was asking. The repair manuals for this are very disappointing to say the least!
There is a pic here of the inside showing wiring that may help.
@CSXJOE posted:There is a pic here of the inside showing wiring that may help.
Thanks for the picture. A little too hard to see where exactly the coil wire is heading, but I appreciate the site for all the info as well. Thanks.
Continuing my problems with the #3530, it seems that most coils have failed, and apparently there are none to be had. I noted there are re-issues from Lionel, does anyone know how these cars operate? Did Lionel use a different motor? And could that be used to fix a postwar? Thanks.
@Jeff B. Haertlein Jeff, Looking at the information CSXJOE posted, EDIT: I just re-read the description, and see there's a fan motor inside. If you were to post some pictures of yours, maybe we could figure it out. Have you checked the motor for continuity through the windings and other parts of the motor circuit, brush condition, does it turn freely by hand, etc.? Describing what you've already checked would be helpful in diagnosing the issue.
@SteveH posted:@Jeff B. Haertlein Jeff, Looking at the information CSXJOE posted, EDIT: I just re-read the description, and see there's a fan motor inside. If you were to post some pictures of yours, maybe we could figure it out. Have you checked the motor for continuity through the windings and other parts of the motor circuit, brush condition, does it turn freely by hand, etc.? Describing what you've already checked would be helpful in diagnosing the issue.
Thanks for your response. However, the postwar car does not have a motor as such with brushes etc. It is a coil and uses a drive washer, so the set up is like the searchlight car or the rotary beacon. What I am wondering is if when Lionel re-issued the car, if they are now using a tiny electric motor instead of the coil method in the postwar issue.
Yes, this coil is an electrical coil, like I mentioned, it has a drive washer, thus the coil vibrates and the drive washer causes the fan to rotate. You can see the silver cylinder shaped coil in the photos from CSXJOE post. Thanks.
Understood now, no motor. Have you check the electro-magnet's coil continuity?
@SteveH posted:Understood now, no motor. Have you check the electro-magnet's coil continuity?
To be perfectly honest I must admit that I am not sure how to do it. I do have an old multi tester which is got me miffed most of the time.
If you're interested in fixing the original mechanism, I think I can help you. If you want to replace it with a rotating armature type motor, that may be more work than fixing the original. Since I don't have access to information on how the original is made, we'd need to have pictures to work from.
I can also help you with using your multi-meter, please post a picture of that as well, if you'd like my help.
@SteveH posted:If you're interested in fixing the original mechanism, I think I can help you. If you want to replace it with a rotating armature type motor, that may be more work than fixing the original. Since I don't have access to information on how the original is made, we'd need to have pictures to work from.
I can also help you with using your multi-meter, please post a picture of that as well, if you'd like my help.
Wow that would be great. I have to get off the computer and head out to our Museum for a work day, so I won't be back on for a while.
jeff
Ok, so just a head's up. This fix would likely involve some simple soldering, are you comfortable with that?
IF the coil continuity check reveals that it's OPEN, then there would be two alternatives for fixing the original mechanism.
1) The unlikely option would be to find an exact replacement for it.
2) The other option is rewinding the coil. But first, you'd need to first take good pictures of the old one, and measure its dimensions before you begin. I can help you with this, but want to make sure that this is something you're interested in doing if the coil is bad.
Hi Guys maybe this will help I have two cars, Fans inop. but I did rewire to get the light to work when the door is open. I did try to open one fan and broke the fan off, thinking I can clean or replace finger, So take caution, I'm sure back in the day you can just replace the whole frame component from lionel I have seen on ebay that do have cars that work. Good Luck. I did write down brass wire its a hair like copper wire soldered to the coil frame.
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@Sitka thank you for the picture and diagram. Those are helpful. Another from the opposite side and one overhead would also be helpful.
Some questions below:
1) What mates with the two contacts in the blue oval?
2) What mates with the two contacts in the red circle?
3) Where the red arrow is pointing, is this soldered connection either accidentally shorting to or intentionally soldered to the frame?
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The blue that you have circled, bottom wire is from the roller. That top lug has two wires, one goes to the light, the other wire goes to circled in red on the bottom solder lug. then that second wire in the red circle comes from the fan coil, now from the coil you have a fine hair wire that is soldered to the frame for the coil (ground). what happens is the blue u have circled when the door opens the brass tabs on the door make contact. gives u pwr. back to your circled red lugs, in between the two solder lugs is a insulated parts, can u see the insulation on the blue circle top right the insulated parts is bent. when i rewired I copied the other car I had. I hope this works, Good Luck. Mark
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@Sitka posted:The blue that you have circled, bottom wire is from the roller. That top lug has two wires, one goes to the light, the other wire goes to circled in red on the bottom solder lug. then that second wire in the red circle comes from the fan coil, now from the coil you have a fine hair wire that is soldered to the frame for the coil (ground). what happens is the blue u have circled when the door opens the brass tabs on the door make contact. gives u pwr. back to your circled red lugs, in between the two solder lugs is a insulated parts, can u see the insulation on the blue circle top right the insulated parts is bent. when i rewired I copied the other car I had. I hope this works, Good Luck. Mark
Back online with the forum. I now see the grounding wire from the coil. This wire is missing from my coil, so that could be a real problem. I am not sure how I would get into the coil to see where that brass wire is and solder an extension on it to bring it out to the frame and solder it. Looks like I will have to pull off the whole assembly to get at the bottom of the coil and see what is what. From what I can see from afar, it looks like the coil is riveted to the bracket. Any comments now. Jeff
@SteveH posted:Ok, so just a head's up. This fix would likely involve some simple soldering, are you comfortable with that?
IF the coil continuity check reveals that it's OPEN, then there would be two alternatives for fixing the original mechanism.
1) The unlikely option would be to find an exact replacement for it.
2) The other option is rewinding the coil. But first, you'd need to first take good pictures of the old one, and measure its dimensions before you begin. I can help you with this, but want to make sure that this is something you're interested in doing if the coil is bad.
I have no problem with soldering most things. As far as rewinding the coil, I have never done that, sounds like a good learning project. Thanks.
@Sitka posted:The blue that you have circled, bottom wire is from the roller. That top lug has two wires, one goes to the light, the other wire goes to circled in red on the bottom solder lug. then that second wire in the red circle comes from the fan coil, now from the coil you have a fine hair wire that is soldered to the frame for the coil (ground). what happens is the blue u have circled when the door opens the brass tabs on the door make contact. gives u pwr. back to your circled red lugs, in between the two solder lugs is a insulated parts, can u see the insulation on the blue circle top right the insulated parts is bent. when i rewired I copied the other car I had. I hope this works, Good Luck. Mark
@Jeff B. Haertlein posted:Back online with the forum. I now see the grounding wire from the coil. This wire is missing from my coil, so that could be a real problem. I am not sure how I would get into the coil to see where that brass wire is and solder an extension on it to bring it out to the frame and solder it. Looks like I will have to pull off the whole assembly to get at the bottom of the coil and see what is what. From what I can see from afar, it looks like the coil is riveted to the bracket. Any comments now. Jeff
Also, my door has a pair of contact strips, not just one like in your photo.
Jeff, I can't tell the best way to get inside by the pictures, but I would guess that any way you come at the problem, the top needs to come off somehow. Looks like a caution from @Sitka about removing the Fan in his first reply. Maybe he or someone else could help with this part.
BTW, when replying with quote, please delete unnecesary pics from the quote, they'll still be in the original message. This reduces the amount of scrolling required to read multiple replies. I would also be helpful it you go to previous replies with unnecessary images and delete those too. Thx
OK, maybe this way is better. As for the fan, I had no trouble lifting mine straight up and out. So mine must be free wheeling.
Jeff, please post some pics of:
1) Inside of the body shell showing the door contacts
2) Inside of motor canister if possible with coil inside and without coil inside
3) Removed fan motor from 2-3 angles
4) Multi-meter controls and lead connections
That's good jeff and steve that your fan came out , mine broke and the coil wont come out, going to look into this other car now maybe I can get it out. will keep a eye on you guys if two gwt it working make a post how you did it. Good Luck
OK Steve. I will get some photos out to you. MAybe I should just send to your e-mail, incase this thread is getting to be too much. In any event, I probably won't be able to do anything until Sunday as I have more work going on at our Museum Saturday. www.midcontinent.org