3rd Rail drive wheel removal

rrjjf posted:

The 2-10-2 mechanism arrived at my shop Saturday morning, June 28 and was repaired by Noon.

 

None of the model's drivers were in actual quarter but were set around 85 degrees (except for the main driver that was really close to 90 degrees).  I wound up removing all of the drivers from the frame and quartering them to 90 degrees on a surface plate using my surface gauge. I can't deal with 85 or 95 degree "quartering".  The surface gauge method  I use for quartering does not lend itself to off 90 quartering.

 

The model's mechanism turns over smoothly now.  This model could never have operated in the condition it was in so there is no apparent wear on anything.  It must have been a shelf queen.

 

I will be shipping it back to the owner this week.

 

Joe Foehrkolb

Baldwin Forge & Machine

I have a 3rd rail Niagara, that appears to have never been run, which upon testing had a "tight spot".  After a very brief run on roller stands, the RH main driver loosened itself from the axle.

I would like to check them all.  Can you elaborate on your method? I'd prefer not to buy a quartering jig if there is a method using a surface gauge. 

It appears to have smooth axles; what product do you use to lock them in place once quartered? 

Thanks,

Jim

Joe can do it, but first make an attempt:

Take the side rods off the side with loose driver, then align the side rods on the opposite side at top or bottom dead center.  Lock them there somehow - you can dream up a way using small machinists clamps.

Put a drop of green shaft loctite in the offending driver bore, and install it to match the others with a good steel straightedge.  They do not have to be 90 degrees, but they all should be the same.

When the loctite sets (doesn't take long, but solid set is 24 hrs) try the side rods.  Success is simply smooth all the way around.

If this doesn' work, send to Joe.  My driver quarter methods are in back issues of OGR.

Another awesome thread on OGR.  I have a 3rdrail mohawk that binds a little every 180 degs, wondering if this is my issue also.  I'll investigate and is if it's a quartering issue with on of the drivers.

Thanks, I'll give the above method a shot; however, I'm not optimistic that the others are properly quartered or at least the same, as this "NIB" that I picked up 12+ years ago which has sat in the box since, has had a few other issues.

I am intrigued by Joe's method using tools I already have to get them all "correct", or any other methods out there. 

-Jim

I have a spare quartering tool set for sale if someone needs it....very nice tool set...very heavy tool steel construction...my e-mail is messed up, but you can text me if you need it...252 339 5014 

Jim Harrington posted:

It appears to have smooth axles; what product do you use to lock them in place once quartered? 

A good choice for securing the wheels once you get them quartered is Loctite 609 Retaining Compound.

harmonyards posted:

I have a spare quartering tool set for sale if someone needs it....very nice tool set...very heavy tool steel construction...my e-mail is messed up, but you can text me if you need it...252 339 5014 

I would imagine this is only useful on counter-bored axles? 

What's the relevance to "harmonyards"?  I was just there yesterday...

Jim Harrington posted:

harmonyards posted:

I have a spare quartering tool set for sale if someone needs it....very nice tool set...very heavy tool steel construction...my e-mail is messed up, but you can text me if you need it...252 339 5014 

I would imagine this is only useful on counter-bored axles? 

What's the relevance to "harmonyards"?  I was just there yesterday...

yes, this tool set is best for counter-bored axles. I didn't look, but now I see the 3rd rail piece has smooth ends. answer to your second question, in the documentary of the water level route, (Fred Beech) the narrator describes a scene where an 0-8-0 switcher was running through the harmonyards with its crew riding the foot boards....It always sticks in my mind..

gunrunnerjohn posted:

Jim Harrington posted:

It appears to have smooth axles; what product do you use to lock them in place once quartered? 

A good choice for securing the wheels once you get them quartered is Loctite 609 Retaining Compound.

That's too funny John, I use 609 to attach pinions to potentiometer shafts at work.  I wouldn't want to press out the shaft on a wheel after using 609.  That stuff really sticks/binds.

Gary, heat it up and it'll come off much easier.  It is for stuff that you'd want to remove.  I use the 680 to put gears on motor shafts, and I hope I never have to take those off.  The LionDrive pinion seems to be prone to coming loose and rendering the motor useless, an application of Loctite 680 and it's on there to stay.

Hello,

The quartering tool shown above was produced by Northwest Shortline.  I have one and found it to be cumbersome to use.  I quarter my drivers on a surface plate with "V Blocks" and a surface gauge as I have described many times on the 2 rail forum.

I also recommend Loctite 609 "Retaining Compound" to set wheels and gears on axles.  Directions for 609 says it fully cures in 24 hours and you will be wise to let your driver/axle fit rest for that time period before putting it to a test.  I use 609 to install insulated and non insulated tires on driver centers that originally had 3 rail tires.  After I install a rough blank tire on a driver center casting I let them sit for the recommended time period and then machine a scale tire profile onto the blank while turning the driver on center in my lathe.  Since the 609 holds up under the cutting forces created by the machining process it is doubtful that the tire will ever come loose in operation.

As you will find out, a ten coupled steam loco requires accurate quartering.

All of my steam loco axles are center drilled in the lathe with a small center drill to provide a reference point for quartering.  When pressing the axle back onto to the driver in the lathe, a 60 degree pointed tool held by a chuck in the tailstock aligns the axle to the driver center.

Joe Foehrkolb

Baldwin Forge & Machine

I recommend using acetone to clean/dry up any body oils on the axles.  That's the procedure I use at work before applying the 609.

Joe,

Thanks for the response.  I'm combing through your posts, and have not found (yet) a complete description of your method.  Could you point me in the right direction please? Photos perhaps?

Read a whole lot of other interesting information however.  Sounds like a good excuse to set up my South Bend 9" , which has been idle since we moved 6 years ago...

Thanks.

Jim,

I had a website presentation via Comcast for several years and they took the site down and I no longer have a presentation devoted to driver machining.  If your lathe is not operational there is no point in my trying to describe or show my methods to you.  You will need a good lathe equipped with collets and some special fixtures to do things the way I do them.  Fixtures are made on the lathe to hold the driver centers on center while new tires are formed.

I have also made "cups" of various dimensions.  These cups are held in the 3 jaw chuck in the lathe and the driver and tire are aligned with the cups circumference  while the axle is being pressed on with the 60 pointed tool mounted in the lathe's tailstock chuck.  This is done to prevent tire wobble caused by a misaligned axle.

If you have the machining skills associated with basic lathe work, you can do this.  I have machined thousands of drivers.

Joe

Joe,

Does you method of quartering with v-blocks an a surface gauge require counter-drilled axles?

If it doesn't, could you please expand on it?  I cant find your description of the method in your old posts, only mention of it.

Thanks,

Jim

bob2 posted:

Joe can do it, but first make an attempt:

 My driver quarter methods are in back issues of OGR.

Can you advise which issues of OGR?

Thanks,

Jim