I may be the only one who does not know- but what is the min curve for these fixed pilot SD40-2's?
Thank you.
Paul
@Railrunnin posted:I may be the only one who does not know- but what is the min curve for these fixed pilot SD40-2's?
Thank you.
Paul
Paul, these are going to be 072 minimum recommended curves for 3 rail and 54" radius for 2 rail versions. That is typical for all the 6 axle 3rd rail locomotives of this length due to the drive system.
@DaveJfr0 posted:Glad to see this is back from the brink.
There are some interesting variations not shown. If you google around enough, you can find several other high-nose variations of of the SD40-2, including 2 N&W paint schemes, 2 CPRail schemes. As for other paint schemes, I'm surprised not to see the EMD Demo unit and the Rock Island. The RI scheme is a very eye catching red and Demo units always seem to sell well for Scott in the 1st Generation units.
I'm willing to help proof the CAD and the SOU artwork if/when it all comes to fruition. Scott - you know how to reach me.
Dave,
As always when it comes to Southern, we will talk! 
Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed. I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix. If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile. It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be. I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.
While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate. Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.
Excited this is moving forward!
Great to hear Jonathan!
looking forward to seeing the final product.
It’s would be great to see the correct classification lights, ditch lights, bell configuration, headlight, trucks, and fuel tank.
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@GG1 4877 posted:Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed. I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix. If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile. It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be. I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.
While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate. Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.
Excited this is moving forward!
Johnathan,
A daunting task, I'll bet. In addition to road name variations, there are probably variations for each road name as equipment and appliances were added or removed over the locomotive's service life. So those choices will have to be made. I'll likely email you some thoughts and suggestions on the Santa Fe versions. Thanks in advance for all your efforts on this project. It is indeed exciting to see it move forward.
RM
Rich,
I'd enjoy seeing your input on this project. Era is always an issue. We have been moving towards as-built on recent projects as of late, but it really is about what era will generate the most interest. I have lots of ATSF books now so if you want to point out pages from certain books I should be looking at or past issues of the Warbonnet, that would be really helpful. I am a member of the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society so I have about 18 months of back issues.
Wisconsin & Southern and the SOO LINE 1974-1988 scheme were added since I last checked.
I was hoping to get one of the SOO LINE SD40-2 as built and painted in 1972-1973.
Andrew
The illustration of the CNW SD40-2 make it look like the color scheme will be the 1980 to 1990 "Safety Yellow" or ZITO yellow scheme.
How likely is that going to the the color scheme?
Would Original Yellow from the 1970's be the actual color scheme?
Andrew
Andrew,
You are not the first person to ask this. At this time, the plan is to have the original CNW yellow on the locomotives. More people seem interested in that version. It helps that Scott already has the formula for the original paint color based on past CNW projects.
Hope that helps clarify!
@GG1 4877 posted:Paul, these are going to be 072 minimum recommended curves for 3 rail and 54" radius for 2 rail versions. That is typical for all the 6 axle 3rd rail locomotives of this length due to the drive system.
Ok... I'm gonna ask it. Whats the difference in the drive system between a 2 and 3 rail one, besides the wheels, that makes the 2R one need another 36" to turn around? I'm really asking because I'd probably buy one of these, but owing to the fact that my 2R layout was a re-lay of a 3R one, the min radius of it is 36" (O72). Its what? 17" long?
Its a bit apples to oranges because of the drive setup, but several MTH and Atlas 6 axle diesels will do 36"R without any issue (even ones that say bigger on the box). If this drive can do O72 for 3 rail, what is different with 2? Does the 3R one omit details and hanging bits that get in the way?
The only difference is the scale coupler, electronics, and the wheels being all flanged. The Kadee couplers have slightly closer coupling. You probably could get a two rail version to go around a shorter radius with a long shank Kadee coupler. However, having all three axles flanged is the real issue I believe. When I modified an MTH GE 6 axle so that all the axles had flanges it no longer would go around an 072 curve. Having said all that, I understand that 3rd Rail 2 rail locomotives run on a 48" radius if the track is laid well.
Hi Folks,
I confirmed today that we will be making tooling for both the SD40-2 and SD40T-2. So SP, D&RGW, UP will be Tunnel Motors with longer Chassis, Tank and Rear with accurate details.
Please reserve your "TUNNEL MOTORS" at the link below.
hi Scott
how many road nr will be possible for each road ?
maybe i would go for 4 tunnels from the Rio Grande, if that's an option.
thanks for making them
Cor
@sdmann posted:Hi Folks,
I confirmed today that we will be making tooling for both the SD40-2 and SD40T-2. So SP, D&RGW, UP will be Tunnel Motors with longer Chassis, Tank and Rear with accurate details.
Please reserve your "TUNNEL MOTORS" at the link below.
Well this is a pleasant update. I suggested adding SP and DRG last December and got criticized as they were different - Tunnel motors. Maybe I wasn’t the only one to suggest but sometimes it helps to stir the pot publicly. Perhaps more people then emailed Scott wanting them and he acted on the demand. It’s a good move for Scott as the three roads (also UP) added are popular and the additions should add some decent numbers to the total run !!!! (But my MKT was canceled 😖 Oh well - it’s not like there’s nothing else that I want - sarcasm).
Nice line-up revision.
Thanks Scott
As with all previous models there will be 4 numbers if there were 4 or more numbers of the prototype. Scott and I talked about it a couple of days ago and he said he would discuss with the builder. They bought it. How awesome is that! As usual there will be a minimum to make it doable so reserve away.
Also, I guess it has to be said again. I know these have been resold to additional railroads who have redecorated them so if you want to reserve them in those other roads, LET SCOTT KNOW! Phone, email, snail mail, whatever.
Also, the short short hood will be standard unless people prefer to order then with the extended short hoods. Only one short hood length will be made for both the standard and tunnel motors as the short hood is part of the shell mold so make your preferences known!
Oh, this means the SP and DRGW standard SD40-2s will be replaced with the tunnel motors so no standard SD40-2s for SP or DRGW. UP will be both.
I think those that reserved the UP prior to this assumed we were making them SD40T-2. We can do them both ways, but I would think that was their preference. I'll cross that bridge when I hear from those customers.
The Tunnel Motors would have to be made in multiple road numbers.
Here is a Bob Rivard video showing a 4 of the Rio Grande Tunnel Motors pulling a train and more pushing the train.
Andrew
How about the party porch version?
Background on this... its a tunnel motor frame (was wrecked) that's had a Southern SD40 long hood fit on it (note the bell bracket). Just missing a grill and a hot tub...
(I'm only half kidding)
You've got to do the SD40T-2s in Susquehanna. You will also probably get more orders for a Susquehanna SD40-2. It won't be a lone wolf anymore.
- Crank
The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request. Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.
So we will hold these ideas for a second run.
I just ordered a SP Tunnel Motor and the Santa Fe. I am excited about this purchase. I own 3rd Rail steam but these will be my first diesels. I am slowly moving away from the hit or miss feature of Lionel and going to give Scott a chance.
Donald
Is it too late to change my mind on the paint scheme I ordered? I ordered W&LE, but might change to Conrail or Conrail Quality.
If so, what do people think - I can't decide. I grew up on the former PRR mainline near Cresson mountain and the Gallitzin Tunnels, so Conrail was a regular sight for me. However, I'm really picky about the shade of blue... too many other models over they years out way too bright/light.
OTOH, I was always a fan of the DRGW speed lettering and orange/black paint... W&LE is a way to get that in an eastern railroad.
Decisions!
@sdmann posted:The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request. Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.
So we will hold these ideas for a second run.
Thanks for this significant update Scott. It gives us some insight into the complexity of your business. Many think that more numbers all at once is all that counts. The roads limited to 20 is a reasonable way to control the complexities involved in getting too large. I Will Welcome second runs as my “wants” in one large run usually exceeds my budget - and I end up having to pass on purchasing some roads. Hopefully the two runs can be in back to back years. Managing which roads in each run become a tough issue. Loading run one with big popular roads Will end up making run two difficult to pull off with only smaller or less popular roads. A mix will be needed.
And perhaps by not getting large, it will allow us to see more different models go to production in a more timely fashion.
Cheers !!!
TrainBub
Hi,
Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?
From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.
I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.
These are just my opinion,
Naveen Rajan
@naveenrajan posted:Hi,
Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?
From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.
I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.
These are just my opinion,
Naveen Rajan
Many of these engines changed hands thru the years. Wiki only lists original buyers. As hard as it’s been to get this run moving towards production, it Sounds like potential for another run could be there with subsequent engine buyers. Let Scott be aware of what you want !!! Email him. And Start a campaign with like minded friends.
I reserved 1 this morning but had doubts post preordering and decided to write my earlier post.
Even though BNSF was an option, I was unsure if they would be the paint scheme from the 90’s or the H3, Orange and Black, that I frequently see around where I live, a scheme that I like. I prefer modern locomotives.
I could visualize As-Delivered scheme for obsolete railroads like BN or ATSF but decided to get clarification regarding paint schemes for contemporary railroads that might not have had any As-Delivered version, as Scott is also proposing those contemporary railroads for this initial run.
These are just my opinion,
Naveen Rajan
I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.
Obviously, the W&LE was not the original purchaser. These were acquired from previous owners, mostly Milwaukee Road, MoPac & UP. The W&LE SD40-2's remain relatively unchanged other than having ditch lights and Nathan K5LA's. Other details like dynamic brakes and rooftop fan housings are unchanged from the originals.
I emailed Jonathan about the variations. I prefer the models with 4000 gallon fuel tanks so that rules out any Milwaukee Road units. I'm OK with either 81" noses or 88" noses but would probably like 2 of each, however if all 4 were of one type or the other that would be just fine, whichever is easier to produce.
For the BN model, will it have a beacon on the top front of the cab? If someone with more knowledge regarding the BN use of these lights would comment, that would be welcomed. As an example, in this photo for BN 8052 taken in 1979, clearly shows the beacon, yet in this photo of the same engine taken in 1990, the beacon has been removed. If you look closely, you can also see a difference in the state of the marker lights.
So, if you are taking suggestions, my preference would be to add all the lights.
Thanks for listening.
Good post by Ironhorseman, I agree that I would prefer my BN SD40-2’s with the “1970’s” lighting including the classification lights. NO ditch lights!
About the BN Models, for me it would make more sence, when the models would be produced with ditch-lights, because Sunset produces also the BNSF version.
Or much nicer would be the white face. See pic below. My alltime favorit.
or this the standart one with ditch lights:
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Same question with Tunnel Motors.
As built with the full light pack?
As time went on there were tweaks to the lights.... beacons got added, the high headlights and gyralights came off, ditch lights went on.
Speed Letters or Roman?
The tunnel motors have enough evolutionary changes to be their own project.
If UP is an option, then I assume its the final form with the high headlight plated and the gyralight removed, but you need to study the pictures as its a 'no 2 alike' scenario.
I'd love the snoot noses, but I understand the need for standardized cabs and noses. If the lighting causes more nose tooling to be necessary... maybe Late model 123" Snoot nose with just a headlight and the notch from the gyralite + ditch lights (8300 numbers), and as built with 88" nose and the full lights pack?
Has somebody any idea will be the Rio Grande tunnel motor produced with the large Rio Grande sign or with the small one?
And the Southern Pacific Tunnel Motor with speed lettering or the older version?
And is there somebody that would like to see an Montana Rail Link SD40-2?
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@catnap posted:I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.
...
OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me. If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done. But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will. One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works. The 20 variations cutoff? From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations. The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.
Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.
Richard, don't think about it too much. 20 variations / road names is the limiting factor now, not models / road. It doesn't make good business sense, I know, but that is what they want. All in all, the orders will be good in 1 or 2 runs, I can feel it.
Scott
I believe for the number of models in this run for Scott 20 variants is the limit they will build. JMO
Excellent news Scott!
@sdmann posted:... 20 variations / road names is the limiting factor now, not models / road.
Scott
Just a curiosity question, does making a particular road name in both 2 and 3 rail count as 2 variations or just one?
@rdunniii posted:OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me. If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done. But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will. One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works. The 20 variations cutoff? From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations. The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.
Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.
You must have have a hard time understanding simple concepts. Perhaps I need to draw you a picture.
If their are 18 reservations for a road, then obviously 2 more will meet the minimum. So, if W&LE needs 2 more reservations to get done, I will add 2 more.
Do you need a calculator to understand simple math?
Variations, numbers, how many and which roads, run one, run two ........
Lets Chill.
The factory has made some “ground rules” but it Sounds like Scott’s got it under control. He’s pretty upbeat and we will get some nice models.
CHEERS !!! 😜
