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@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

I confirmed today that we will be making tooling for both the SD40-2 and SD40T-2. So SP, D&RGW, UP will be Tunnel Motors with longer Chassis, Tank and Rear with accurate details.

Please reserve your "TUNNEL MOTORS" at the link below.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm

Well this is a pleasant update. I suggested adding SP and DRG last December and got criticized as they were different - Tunnel motors.  Maybe I wasn’t the only one to suggest but sometimes it helps to stir the pot publicly. Perhaps more people then emailed Scott wanting them and he acted on the demand. It’s a good move for Scott as the three roads (also UP) added are popular and the additions should add some decent numbers to the total run !!!!  (But my MKT was canceled 😖 Oh well - it’s not like there’s nothing else that  I want - sarcasm).  
Nice line-up revision.
Thanks Scott

Last edited by TrainBub

As with all previous models there will be 4 numbers if there were 4 or more numbers of the prototype.  Scott and I talked about it a couple of days ago and he said he would discuss with the builder.  They bought it.  How awesome is that!  As usual there will be a minimum to make it doable so reserve away.

Also, I guess it has to be said again.  I know these have been resold to additional railroads who have redecorated them so if you want to reserve them in those other roads, LET SCOTT KNOW!  Phone, email, snail mail, whatever.

Also,  the short short hood will be standard unless people prefer to order then with the extended short hoods.  Only one short hood length will be made for both the standard and tunnel motors as the short hood is part of the shell mold so make your preferences known!

Oh, this means the SP and DRGW standard SD40-2s will be replaced with the tunnel motors so no standard SD40-2s for SP or DRGW.  UP will be both.

Last edited by rdunniii

The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request.  Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.

So we will hold these ideas for a second run.

Is it too late to change my mind on the paint scheme I ordered?  I ordered W&LE, but might change to Conrail or Conrail Quality.

If so, what do people think - I can't decide.  I grew up on the former PRR mainline near Cresson mountain and the Gallitzin Tunnels, so Conrail was a regular sight for me.  However, I'm really picky about the shade of blue... too many other models over they years out way too bright/light.

OTOH, I was always a fan of the DRGW speed lettering and orange/black paint... W&LE is a way to get that in an eastern railroad.

Decisions!

@sdmann posted:

The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request.  Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.

So we will hold these ideas for a second run.

Thanks for this significant update Scott. It gives us some insight into the complexity of your business. Many think that more numbers all at once is all that counts. The roads limited to 20 is a reasonable way to control the complexities involved in getting too large. I Will Welcome second runs as my “wants” in one large run usually exceeds my budget - and I end up having to pass on purchasing some roads. Hopefully the two runs can be in back to back years. Managing which roads in each run become a tough issue. Loading run one with big popular roads Will end up making run two difficult to pull off with only smaller or less popular roads. A mix will be needed.
And perhaps by not getting large, it will allow us to see more different models go to production in a more timely fashion.
Cheers !!!

TrainBub

Hi,

Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?

From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.

I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan posted:

Hi,

Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?

From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.

I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

Many of these engines changed hands thru the years.  Wiki only lists original buyers. As hard as it’s been to get this run moving towards production, it Sounds like potential for another run could be there with subsequent engine buyers. Let Scott be aware of what you want !!!  Email him. And Start a campaign with like minded friends.

I reserved 1 this morning but had doubts post preordering and decided to write my earlier post.

Even though BNSF was an option, I was unsure if they would be the paint scheme from the 90’s or the H3, Orange and Black, that I frequently see around where I live, a scheme that I like. I prefer modern locomotives.

I could visualize As-Delivered scheme for obsolete railroads like BN or ATSF but decided to get clarification regarding paint schemes for contemporary railroads that might not have had any As-Delivered version, as Scott is also proposing those contemporary railroads for this initial run.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.

Obviously, the W&LE was not the original purchaser. These were acquired from previous owners, mostly Milwaukee Road, MoPac & UP. The W&LE SD40-2's remain relatively unchanged other than having ditch lights and Nathan K5LA's. Other details like dynamic brakes and rooftop fan housings are unchanged from the originals.

I emailed Jonathan about the variations. I prefer the models with 4000 gallon fuel tanks so that rules out any Milwaukee Road units. I'm OK with either 81" noses or 88" noses but would probably like 2 of each, however if all 4 were of one type or the other that would be just fine, whichever is easier to produce.

For the BN model, will it have a beacon on the top front of the cab?  If someone with more knowledge regarding the BN use of these lights would comment, that would be welcomed.  As an example, in this photo for BN 8052 taken in 1979, clearly shows the beacon, yet in this photo of the same engine taken in 1990, the beacon has been removed.  If you look closely, you can also see a difference in the state of the marker lights. 

So, if you are taking suggestions, my preference would be to add all the lights.

Thanks for listening.

Same question with Tunnel Motors.

As built with the full light pack?

As time went on there were tweaks to the lights.... beacons got added, the high headlights and gyralights came off, ditch lights went on.

Speed Letters or Roman?

The tunnel motors have enough evolutionary changes  to be their own project.

If UP is an option, then I assume its the final form with the high headlight plated and the gyralight removed, but you need to study the pictures as its a 'no 2 alike' scenario.

I'd love the snoot noses, but I understand the need for standardized cabs and noses. If the lighting causes more nose tooling to be necessary... maybe Late model 123" Snoot nose with just a headlight and the notch from the gyralite + ditch lights (8300 numbers), and as built with 88" nose and the full lights pack?

Last edited by Boilermaker1
@catnap posted:

I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.

...



OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me.  If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done.  But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will.  One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works.  The 20 variations cutoff?  From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations.  The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.

Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.

@rdunniii posted:

OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me.  If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done.  But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will.  One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works.  The 20 variations cutoff?  From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations.  The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.

Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.

You must have have a hard time understanding simple concepts. Perhaps I need to draw you a picture.

If their are 18 reservations for a road, then obviously 2 more will meet the minimum. So, if W&LE needs 2 more reservations to get done, I will add 2 more.

Do you need a calculator to understand simple math?

@catnap posted:

You must have have a hard time understanding simple concepts. Perhaps I need to draw you a picture.

If their are 18 reservations for a road, then obviously 2 more will meet the minimum. So, if W&LE needs 2 more reservations to get done, I will add 2 more.

Do you need a calculator to understand simple math?

Because you're never going to know how many reservations there are for each.  That's why.  Even when I reserved the number required to make the F7 demonstrators  I never knew the total number done, only the number I needed to purchase at the end.  He and the builder will make the decision on which variants are a go and you're only going to know if it's a no go when reservations close and all the numbers are set for the builder. You're done.  He never publishes the numbers for each variation.  

It's nice to see that this project has moved beyond "go" to now include the tunnel motor variant. I've always thought those, well... cool, but I'll resist the temptation for now. Have to take care of the home road first. But if indeed there's a second run on this project, be it straight SD40-2, or tunnel motors, I'll be in for that too.

RM

So what are the 20 roads you are going to do Scott?

Not known yet.  The ones that have been cancelled usually had less than 5 reservations.  There are also potentially versions that will be done that are not even advertised.  If a hobby shop or a person wants a version done just for them and reserves the minimum required that version will be done and counts towards the 20.  Even versions of versions are not known and depends on versions people have reserved.  If there are 10 reservations for MP without dynamic brakes in X paint and every other version has less guess which one will be produced.  If only one version is advertised then it is reasonable that only one version will be built.  Usually people who have made specific preferences known will have the opportunity to back out, otherwise you get what is built.

You can still email Scott to reserve one that has been cancelled. There's an old saying "If it weren't for the last moment nothing would ever get done".  They sit for months with no additional reservations and when he announces reservations closing reservations magically show up.  And that certainly has been true here.  Cancelled ones have been revived and ones on the bubble cancelled in the past.  He tried with the GP7/9s to do everything and that did not turn out well, so the builder limited it at 20 versions per run from now on.  

Last edited by rdunniii
@rdunniii posted:

Not known yet.  The ones that have been cancelled usually had less than 5 reservations.  There are also potentially versions that will be done that are not even advertised.  If a hobby shop or a person wants a version done just for them and reserves the minimum required that version will be done and counts towards the 20.  Even versions of versions are not known and depends on versions people have reserved.  If there are 10 reservations for MP without dynamic brakes in X paint and every other version has less guess which one will be produced.  If only one version is advertised then it is reasonable that only one version will be built.  Usually people who have made specific preferences known will have the opportunity to back out, otherwise you get what is built.

You can still email Scott to reserve one that has been cancelled. There's an old saying "If it weren't for the last moment nothing would ever get done".  They sit for months with no additional reservations and when he announces reservations closing reservations magically show up.  And that certainly has been true here.  Cancelled ones have been revived and ones on the bubble cancelled in the past.  He tried with the GP7/9s to do everything and that did not turn out well, so the builder limited it at 20 versions per run from now on.  

As usual - good info on the behind scenes goings on. Thanks !!!

In my mind - it’s all about the numbers. Those with the most reservations will be produced. 5 of the 25 shown (and I guess the undecorated gets done no matter what) won’t get done (not counting canceled MKT). Late reservations Can restack the final 20. Time for the “fence sitters” to commit.
Perhaps we are close to a final roads to be produced “shuffle” prior to reservations closing.

@TrainBub posted:

As usual - good info on the behind scenes goings on. Thanks !!!

In my mind - it’s all about the numbers. Those with the most reservations will be produced. 5 of the 25 shown (and I guess the undecorated gets done no matter what) won’t get done (not counting canceled MKT). Late reservations Can restack the final 20. Time for the “fence sitters” to commit.
Perhaps we are close to a final roads to be produced “shuffle” prior to reservations closing.

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

@GregM posted:


As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

I also share this opinion. I have no intention to commit to a model that I am not fully interested in. As I don't have much influence on what specific road names or eras would eventually be imported,  I might remain on this fence indefinitely.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan posted:

I also share this opinion. I have no intention to commit to a model that I am not fully interested in. As I don't have much influence on what specific road names or eras would eventually be imported,  I might remain on this fence indefinitely.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

No one asks you to commit to something you’re not interested in.
Anyone wanting to continue to “sit on the fence” is welcome to do so. Your choice.

@GregM posted:

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

Lots of trade offs on how to manage - will it be this model or another different one we reserve - or none. We all have our own way of doing things.

@GregM posted:

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

There is no commitment of funds to make a reservation.  Not sure where that information came from.  The commitment is to pay for the model after it is produced and then it will be delivered to you with a very flexible refund policy if you are not satisfied.  If indeed the road name you placed a pre-order on gets cancelled you are only out the disappointment that the road you were looking for didn't get enough orders.

Road names are cancelled prior to start of production so Scott reaches out to customers directly and asks if they would like to order another road name or cancel their pre-order.  You will not miss out on your second choice because your first choice got canceled.

This is how it works for Sunset.  That is why Sunset is like no other manufacturer in this scale or pretty much any other scale.  Name another manufacturer who does this much output where you deal with the owner directly? 

The reality is one engine can and has made a difference between a road name going forward or not going forward.  Lessons learned from past projects will make this even more likely in the future.

As for 2nd runs?  The E7 had 3.5 runs if you include the version made for the "Train of Tomorrow".  F7s had two runs.  There is a second run of F3s being offered with limited road names.  On the other hand, the FL9, FT, FP7, and SD7/9 have never been offered for second runs as much as some of us would like that.  PAs, E5s, 6s, 8s, and 9s have yet to be re-run.  In short, 2nd runs are a big if.  The same is true for a lot of the GGD passenger train sets.  I'd like to see some re-runs that I missed out on.  Not counting on it.

For all of us who support Sunset in our various roles it is our hope is that good quality models get produced for people who truly enjoy quality product that performs well.  It has never been anything less than that. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

There is no commitment of funds to make a reservation.  Not sure where that information came from.  The commitment is to pay for the model after it is produced and then it will be delivered to you with a very flexible refund policy if you are not satisfied.  If indeed the road name you placed a pre-order on gets cancelled you are only out the disappointment that the road you were looking for didn't get enough orders.

Road names are cancelled prior to start of production so Scott reaches out to customers directly and asks if they would like to order another road name or cancel their pre-order.  You will not miss out on your second choice because your first choice got canceled.

This is how it works for Sunset.  That is why Sunset is like no other manufacturer in this scale or pretty much any other scale.  Name another manufacturer who does this much output where you deal with the owner directly?

The reality is one engine can and has made a difference between a road name going forward or not going forward.  Lessons learned from past projects will make this even more likely in the future.

As for 2nd runs?  The E7 had 3.5 runs if you include the version made for the "Train of Tomorrow".  F7s had two runs.  There is a second run of F3s being offered with limited road names.  On the other hand, the FL9, FT, FP7, and SD7/9 have never been offered for second runs as much as some of us would like that.  PAs, E5s, 6s, 8s, and 9s have yet to be re-run.  In short, 2nd runs are a big if.  The same is true for a lot of the GGD passenger train sets.  I'd like to see some re-runs that I missed out on.  Not counting on it.

For all of us who support Sunset in our various roles it is our hope is that good quality models get produced for people who truly enjoy quality product that performs well.  It has never been anything less than that.

Thank you so much Jonathan !!!

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