Thanks for the update Scott! Happy 4th of July to you as well.
Dave
Suuuuhweet!
Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.
How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!
@vash44 posted:Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.
How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!
Well it’s good that Scott didn’t keep people with Frisco, IC, and Soo reservations dangling till the absolute end before closing reservations. It actually allows us to see if we can reallocate our reservation “$” to something else.
@vash44 posted:Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.
How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!
While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested. Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names.
IC is a tough one. They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total. I personally found that surprising during research of this unit. The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version? That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders.
While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog. I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road. Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.
Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced. Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.
I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex. Go figure.
@GG1 4877 posted:While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog. I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road. Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.
Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks. The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.
If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection. Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.
@GG1 4877 posted:While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested. Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names.
IC is a tough one. They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total. I personally found that surprising during research of this unit. The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version? That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders.
While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog. I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road. Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.
Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced. Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.
I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex. Go figure.
You Always provide great info. Thanks !!! Ferromex ? A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?
Cheers 🙂
@GG1 4877 posted:While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested. Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names.
IC is a tough one. They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total. I personally found that surprising during research of this unit. The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version? That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders.
While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog. I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road. Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.
Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced. Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.
I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex. Go figure.
I appreciate the information Jonathan! I don't expect a 2nd run, but if it would pop up at a future date I'd be very interested in campaigning for the "Deathstar" or purchasing a higher quantity. I know the IC would be a longshot but growing up around them and seeing them run up and down Route 45 always held my attention captive. Something to be said about a string of all black with white "Operation Lifesaver" on the site of them to be attention-grabbing. Most sources I could find showcased 80+ on the IC roster. The ICG (Orange/White) was a rare purchaser at 4.
https://www.angelfire.com/ut2/longhornson/ic.html
https://www.deviantart.com/mil...-Lifesaver-647005080
http://illinois-central.net/rosters/roster6000.html
Chris
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@vash44 posted:I appreciate the information Jonathan! I don't expect a 2nd run, but if it would pop up at a future date I'd be very interested in campaigning for the "Deathstar" or purchasing a higher quantity. I know the IC would be a longshot but growing up around them and seeing them run up and down Route 45 always held my attention captive. Something to be said about a string of all black with white "Operation Lifesaver" on the site of them to be attention-grabbing. Most sources I could find showcased 80+ on the IC roster. The ICG (Orange/White) was a rare purchaser at 4.
http://illinois-central.net/rosters/roster6000.html
Chris
I would have thought that these would be a slam dunk 😳. Illinois (plus all that territory on way to GOM) has a large population base for train buyers. You never know. My Frisco reservation was always tenuous and naturally it didn’t make the cut. Oh well. My MP made the cut. Maybe I’ll redirect the Frisco $ to DRG or SP. I’ve time to think on that. For me, the DRG would be an interesting lash up with the MP for a Colorado coal drag. 😬
@sdmann posted:Hi Folks,
Happy 4th of July.
Wanted to let you know Jonathan and I are now working on the design matrix which leads to design and tooling for our SD40-2 , SD40T-2 project.
I have removed several road names from the list due to lack of orders. We are already beyond our 20 road name production so we can't add any further roads at this time. The roads that didn't make it are IC (Death Star), Frisco and SOO.
We changed the engine we are making for N&W to the short / high hood, black scheme. I hope all that reserved the Red N&W will approve of the change.
I think we will see these early to mid 2022. Reservations will close in late 2021.
Keep well and happy Model Railroading.
It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ??? Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”. It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.
@TrainBub posted:It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ??? Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”. It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.
You have no idea. I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive. He understands stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive. He already knows I need some leftover F3s. In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff. Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.
And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something. The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics. And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.
There were 4 different major SOO LINE schemes for the SD40-2.
He only had the 1975 to 1982 scheme as a choice.
Andrew
@rdunniii posted:You have no idea. I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive. He understands stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive. He already knows I need some leftover F3s. In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff. Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.
And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something. The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics. And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.
Wow you do some ambitious, serious vacuuming after “delivery”. I did 3 GPs and before all is said and done I’ll probably do 3 SD40-2s.
I'm stunned with people doing something - like swapping electronics !!!!! Holy cow - how sleazy - pathetic !!!!!
@rplst8 posted:Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks. The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.
If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection. Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.
Another reason for the frame length was to standardize the frame. The SD38-2, SD40-2, and SD45-2 share the same frame. Conrail elected to go with the older Flexcoil trucks due to their experience of Amtrak's SDP40Fs HT-C trucks on Conrail track which was substandard at the time.
W&LE units are still being researched. Most of the others have assigned phases and number ranges right now pending approval of the boss man Scott. 
@TrainBub posted:You Always provide great info. Thanks !!! Ferromex ? A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?
Cheers 🙂
I model western roads in 3 rail as my club is 3 rail and western based. CNJ is for the serious modeler in me and is always in 2 rail. Makes complete sense to me!!
@TrainBub posted:It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ??? Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”. It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.
Talk is cheap. How many threads do we read that someone says, "I'll buy X number of units in Y road name if Z manufacturer makes it." Uh-huh. The answer to your question is less than 5 of each of these road names.
There are several on this forum who enjoy opining on everything but when it comes down to a placing a reservation find the smallest reasons not to reserve as in they never intended reserving one in the first place.
Then again there are others who are willing to place a personal guarantee on the run to get their road name made.
Like life, we have all kinds on this forum. Nothing wrong with any of it.
GG-1, In my world, train related internet sales completion actually have a higher closing ratio than in my professional world. Maybe even double that of my day to day business. Except at train shows, there sales may be 1 out of 6 conversations become sales.
There is a sort of love affair RR guys have for trains and sometimes it seems they just like to imagine ordering or talking about one. Like dancing with debt.
For the life of me I can not imagine how Scott can make these high dollar multi unit overseas commitments based on the general RR public.
I have learned that running a model train business is not for the faint of heart. My wife is in sales, but sells products that are actually needed as opposed to just wanted. The stuff Scott shares with me would make most business minded people run for the hills, yet he still enjoys this work. I have to give him all the credit in the world for 1) putting up with a global economy in a niche market, 2) fickle buyers who expect perfection, 3) consultants (such as myself) who sometimes make mistakes that exacerbates number 2, and 4) taking so much risk with no guarantee of reward. I do hope Scott writes a book someday about his adventures in model railroading from a manufacturer's perspective. There are certainly some wonderful and also scary tales to tell about the nature of this business!
@GG1 4877 posted:I have learned that running a model train business is not for the faint of heart. My wife is in sales, but sells products that are actually needed as opposed to just wanted. The stuff Scott shares with me would make most business minded people run for the hills, yet he still enjoys this work. I have to give him all the credit in the world for 1) putting up with a global economy in a niche market, 2) fickle buyers who expect perfection, 3) consultants (such as myself) who sometimes make mistakes that exacerbates number 2, and 4) taking so much risk with no guarantee of reward. I do hope Scott writes a book someday about his adventures in model railroading from a manufacturer's perspective. There are certainly some wonderful and also scary tales to tell about the nature of this business!
I’d be a buyer of such a book. I think it would be fascinating. Even tidbits you share are interesting as you also give insight into the business. Perhaps you should contribute to it too. 😬
@GG1 4877 posted:W&LE units are still being researched.
Just please, no “gap-toothed” short fuel tank models…
http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster/WE7019fs3.jpg
Blechh.. 
Actually, I like it, but it would be better if an equal "gap" were on the aft end also. That would make it a lot easier to model one of those that emigrated to South America (Brazil; Estrada de Ferro Vitória a Minas; EFVM) and converted to B-B + B-B meter gauge units.
@rplst8 posted:Just please, no “gap-toothed” short fuel tank models…
lechh..
@Tim Mc posted:I'm looking forward to seeing the phases and numbers for the Mopac SD40-2s!
Good to see you are still in the MP hunt Tim. I don’t expect the phases will be announced - but you might eventually find out via a note to Scott or Jonathan. I’ll be very happy with my two - with whatever phase shows up. Scott will typically will due as many as four numbers if there is an order for four units. Beyond that I don’t know. I’ll probably add a DRG for a coal drag too.
W&LE units will be former MOPAC units with the 4000 gallon fuel tank. Since they came to the W&LE via a circuitous route, the details are very different from when they were originally delivered.
Interestingly enough, the W&LE images showed up fine one my phone, but don't when I'm browsing from a PC this morning.
I can see the image as well on my iPhone, but not on my desktop (Google Chrome).
Cool, I have 4 W&LE on order thru Caboose Stop Hobbies. I don't know why I didn't just order them directly from Scott.
Jonathan, if you need more information on these units I would be glad to help. I floated you an email yesterday about the lineage of the 6 81" nose SD40-2's 3rd Rail will be considering for the W&LE.
Rob
Units #6353 and #6354 are interesting. Former Kansas City Southern units that were used in the movie Unstoppable. They also seem to have some sort of upgrade done to the cab windows to widen them to four panes. Looks nice.
http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster/WE6354.html
http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster/WE6353.html
All of the former MoPac units are great too. From what I can tell they have eight of those currently numbered: 7002, 7010, 7011, 7013, 7016, 7020, 7021, and 7022.
Project update. Research is going really well on this project and I want to thank all those who have taken the time to send me information to help move this project forward.
This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past. We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers. That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully.
Here is just a teaser:
MOPAC: Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme
W&LE: Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016
Southern: 4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.
Conrail: Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.
Milwaukee Road: Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.
This list will grow as the picture becomes clearer, but at least a start.
Enjoy your weekend and play with your trains!
Jonathan: do you plan to produce the CN unit?
@GG1 4877 posted:Project update. Research is going really well on this project and I want to thank all those who have taken the time to send me information to help move this project forward.
This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past. We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers. That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully.
Here is just a teaser:
MOPAC: Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme
W&LE: Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016
Southern: 4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.
Conrail: Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.
Milwaukee Road: Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.
This list will grow as the picture becomes clearer, but at least a start.
Enjoy your weekend and play with your trains!
Oh I DO LOVE THE FIRST TEASER !!! 😜😜 MOPAC to be done - is looking “official” !!!
EEE- HAAA !!!! Made my day !!!!
🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂
@HiramO posted:Jonathan: do you plan to produce the CN unit?
Yes. The CN unit will have the Canadian wide cab.
Hi Jonathan,
Many thanks for the update
Any idea of the Conrail / Conrail Quality road #s
If it is too early, don't worry about it
Thanks again to you and Scott
@GG1 4877 posted:This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past. We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers. That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully.
I think this is an excellent idea. Kudos to Scott and you for making this move.
@EMD posted:Hi Jonathan,
Many thanks for the update
Any idea of the Conrail / Conrail Quality road #s
If it is too early, don't worry about it
Thanks again to you and Scott
Right now I just have them in the 6441-6482 which was the 2nd order Conrail made for SD40-2s. Just need to nail down the exact numbers.
The photo shown for the past 6 months of the CN SD40-2 was pf a standard cab model built for the CN then sold to the KCS then sold to the GTW and repainted in the 1990's CN scheme.
What road numbers and schemes will be on the CN SD40-2W?
Andrew
I just added one of each Conrail and Conrail Quality liveries in 3-rail to my order of two WLE units.
These will likely be the most accurate models of an SD40-2 ever made in 3-rail, and maybe even all of O-scale. Having representations of them with both Flexcoil and HT-C trucks will be cool. Part of me wants to also get a tunnel motor and snoot nose version, but I think that’s to much for my wallet in one order and I’m not even sure a snoot is in the works.
In the GP7/9 thread the question of wheel size in the HT-C trucks came up.
Two seemingly reliable sources say they have 42 inch diameter wheels, and then @catnap found another source that said they were 40 inch. FWIW the Wikipedia page says that they are 40 inch as well, but there doesn’t seem to be a citation for that.
Sources that say 42 inch:
https://utahrails.net/loconote...-RT-3_March-1972.pdf
https://heritagerailalliance.w...S-AXLES-1987-OCT.PDF
Source that says 40 inch:
http://tcrc320.org/MEMBERS/SD40-2_Operator_Manual.pdf
I’m curious what others think on this question. Although I am NOT going to quibble over two scale inches in a 1:48 model that rides on 1:43.5 tracks.
@TrainBub posted:Oh I DO LOVE THE FIRST TEASER !!! 😜😜 MOPAC to be done - is looking “official” !!!
EEE- HAAA !!!! Made my day !!!!
🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂
Oh yeah TrainBub! I'm very excited for these. For anyone curious about Mopac's fleet, MP had (306) SD40-2s in total! (74) SD40-2s made in 1973-74 were in the early sawblade scheme. (232) Mopac SD40-2s made between 1975 and 1980 were delivered in the late scheme.
While I would have been OK with either the early non-DB, or late DB models (74), the non-DB SD40-2s being produced in the as-delivered late scheme are the most typical of Mopac's fleet (158 of 306, or slightly more than half of all MP SD40-2s).
The road numbers are survivors that lasted into the UP merger period in Jenks Blue and were found all over the system. According to Kevin EuDaly's book Missouri Pacific Diesel Power, these four were not repainted into the UP "canary" or "mop-up" scheme.
Pics of 3217 (Feb 85) and 3264 (Dec 85) can be found at the Screaming Eagle site:
http://trainweb.org/screaminge...oco_2gen_sd40-2.html
Pics of 3229 (May 89), 3255 (Jul 85) can be found here:
http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-300.html
Time to get the layout planned. The office loop won't do these justice.
Thanks Jonathan and Scott!
~Tim
The second order of Conrail units 6441-6524 had no plows. Since you have decided to do Conrail Quality, you have to be careful picking the correct road numbers as these had many slight variations. 3 different size Conrail Quality logos were used. Some got the Conrail Quality on the front nose but not the rear. Some got it on the rear and not on the nose. Early units and the Q towards the front. Since these will be later Conrail Quality Units can ERR enable working ditch lights? If you are not doing ditch lights then I suggest doing regular Conrail Paint.
The most attractive units were the ones with Conrail Quality on the nose, no rear painted Quality, Side panel Q towards the rear under the back fans rails going forward, white number boards, white front rear and side sills, top of the nose painted black (this was a mix of black and anti-skid sand but black will do).
- Crank
I was curious what road numbers from the range provided might be prototypical for the Conrail Quality SD40-2 engines. A little research located these pictures of potential numbers on the Conrail Photo Archive.
Conrail 6442 10/15/98 Hagerstown, MD
Conrail 6449 02/18/96 Altoona, PA (On flatcar after wreck)
Conrail 6451 4-21-94 Altoona, PA (Nose only)
Conrail 6451 02/14/98 Bear, DE
Conrail 6457 06/15/96 Gallitzin, PA (Rear "Conrail Quality")
Conrail 6457 02/14/98 Wilmington DE (Nose "Conrail Quality")
Conrail 6476 12/31/95 Edgemoor, DE (Only CONRAIL on nose)
There are probably other numbers that can be used, only included two even and three odd numbered engines.
If you want to know where the cutoff line between go and no go that I had to reserve for Ferromex is it is Conrail. So there is a REAL good chance,especially with the addition of the flexicoil trucks, that here will be only one physical version. Now Jonathan has to find 4 numbers where they all matched. If you want more detail differences there needs to be more reservations for Conrail, like double digit more.
