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I would be willing to get a different road name if it would help push one over the limit.

I ordered the Wheeling and Lake Erie in 3-rail, but I’d also be interested in  Conrail, CSX, and BN in that order, with a strong preference for Conrail.

It really surprises me these aren’t more popular since to my knowledge an accurate -2 has never been done in O scale.

@SPSF posted:

Do you want W&LE or Conrail?  Both are in that list.

I want W&LE.  However, someone mentioned that not enough reservations were received for some roads to trigger Scott to actually do the run of -2s.

I was offering to change my reservation if say W&LE already had more than enough orders, and say Conrail, CSX, and/or GN did not.  I'm not sure where that person got the info about which roads do not have enough orders, but if it was made known to everyone, maybe we could get them made by adjusting the orders with peoples 2nd or 3rd choices.

Last edited by rplst8

This has been on offer for quite some time and Is obviously stalled. I’m guessing there’s a Total Number Needed but Also a total number of each road needed.
Help us Scott !!! What are the laggards that can be dropped ???? The laggards get counted to the total but if we can switch to a “passing” road then the  number can stay level. It a number juggle thing. Others can double their single res.
I’ve MP and Frisco reserved. If Frisco is a laggard, let me know and I’ll switch that reservation to a second MP.

I wouldn't be as concerned with number of reservations per road quite yet.  Reserve the road you want.  The ultimate question is the total number of units.  Scott makes a call on how low he is willing to go on a specific road name to make the total project go.

It took 5 years to get the Amfleet project to go forward, so don't give up hope.  If you are on the fence to order a unit go ahead and place your pre-order.  Once the reservations start to show a sign of life, the project can then go into formal design.  

@catnap posted:

I have 2 reserved. If the price was $900 (same as the Dash 9) I would still be in for 2. If the price increased, would that mean fewer reservations would be required? Of course, some may back out of their original reservation(s)if the price increased $150 per model. I think it’s currently at $750.

It’s currently at 730. I bet when priced, it was a bit higher than other models as it was anticipated to not draw that many reservations. A modest bump to 750 might help, prob won’t loose many subscribers, but won’t help those already watching their budgets. And Price increases don’t attract new buyers.

The problem is, with fewer models at a higher price, as demonstrated above, is that there are too many variations with insufficient reservations for each.  If there were 75+ reservations each for ATSF, UP, and BN then it would be very doable for ~$800 each.  But there are no more than about 10 reservations for any variation, most are about 5.  At 5-10 models per variation you probably looking at $1200-$1500 per model.

@rdunniii posted:

The problem is, with fewer models at a higher price, as demonstrated above, is that there are too many variations with insufficient reservations for each.  If there were 75+ reservations each for ATSF, UP, and BN then it would be very doable for ~$800 each.  But there are no more than about 10 reservations for any variation, most are about 5.  At 5-10 models per variation you probably looking at $1200-$1500 per model.

Well this is looking more and more like “Mission Impossible” with an unhappy ending. Perhaps there is just to many of these models out there for buyers to belly up with some serious bucks. Even for what for sure would be a superbly crafted model- it’s stalled and not even close to being launched. I’m not even sure it could launch after a 5 year waiting time frame.  
I’d love to see it but I don’t think it’s going to fly.  ☹️

@rdunniii posted:

The problem is, with fewer models at a higher price, as demonstrated above, is that there are too many variations with insufficient reservations for each.  If there were 75+ reservations each for ATSF, UP, and BN then it would be very doable for ~$800 each.  But there are no more than about 10 reservations for any variation, most are about 5.  At 5-10 models per variation you probably looking at $1200-$1500 per model.

I'd drop $2,500 for a pair of Wheeling & Lake Erie SD40-2's (2-rail DCC with ESU LokSound). Of course, I don't think anybody else would. 🤣

@rdunniii posted:

The problem is, with fewer models at a higher price, as demonstrated above, is that there are too many variations with insufficient reservations for each.  If there were 75+ reservations each for ATSF, UP, and BN then it would be very doable for ~$800 each.  But there are no more than about 10 reservations for any variation, most are about 5.  At 5-10 models per variation you probably looking at $1200-$1500 per model.

Really? C'mon Chessie peeps where you at? Don't make me go this alone I have 2 on order and that's about all I can do for a model that won't run on my curves and will sit on a shelf. Something smaller like the SW1 will see me order more.

Maybe if Scott didn't advertise every RR under the sun and did them in multiple runs with different road names each time he would get more orders for fewer road names. Just a thought...

Sounds like we need 250-300 reservations to make this fly at 750-800. There are 17 models offered so 16 each gets us to 275. Just saying. If 100 people buy 2 and another 75 buy 1 we get there. Just hypothetical of course.  That’s 175 buyers. Boy. These aren’t big numbers !!!!  And we are still having trouble getting there.
I think perhaps we have some Sunset models competing with other Sunset models for dollars. 🤔😣

@jonnyspeed posted:

If Scott didn't advertise every RR under the sun and did them in multiple runs with different road names each time he would get more orders for fewer road names. Just a thought...

Well, I'm not in the 40-2 hunt, but I doubt this would be acceptable to many of the O2R/O3R crowd who are passionate about wanting their personal favorite.

I keep thinking about....and waking up each morning feeling the effects of...the demographics of our group.  We ain't getting any younger.   Pandemics don't help.  Uncertainties about our near- and post-retirement finances in a changing world lead us to Maalox and aspirin, sometimes daily.  IOW, mortality is the hoofbeat behind us, getting louder in spite of our declining sense of hearing.

Scott undoubtedly has a lot on his platter, so to speak.  I'm sure he gets a lot of 'help' in laying out production plans for a myriad of models.  Heck, I have callouses on my knees from prostrating myself in groveling embarrassment before the man.  Second....even third...runs of models are not his normal modus operandi.... and they're seldom in quick succession anyway.  Some of us just hope our dreams will come true before our fire drops.  I'm in the upper end of the septuagenarian years.  I'm not sure I'd enjoy waiting for re-run #2...or more so #3...just to keep my reservation and enthusiasm...and heartbeat...going a tad longer.  And, with a bunch of other steam/diesel/electric/passenger train projects under consideration in between, those could be lengthy waits.  Or, let's do multiple runs of the same engine in quick succession...and push the other dreams off into the sunset a bit longer!?  Oof with a woof!

Besides, if we're adamant about a very specific paint scheme, detailed variant, smaller flag, third/fourth owner shortline version, what are the chances of EVER getting that minimum number of interested (less-passionate) buyers to hit a minimum doable quantity?...especially as time ticks on??

Lastly, here's another perspective that can really cause insomnia!..   If you...like me...always thought that Mike Wolf was a "kid"...Mike: The young Giant Slayer!...(seems like only 'yesterday' he began his career from his family home!)....and now he wants a well-deserved retirement!?!?!...    Can Scott Mann be far behind?

Waiting?  Multiple runs??  "Take a number!"?.....

Charliebrown aaugh

Tick....tock....tick...tock...tick...tock...

Just a thought...

KD

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Last edited by dkdkrd

Ken,  Scott and I talked about his retirement on Sunday. I don't see that happening for quite some time yet with the proviso that the Orientals are willing to produce trains. There are very few similarities between Scott and Mike Wolf and how their businesses are run.

R. Heil   Sunset / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot

@rheil posted:

Ken,  Scott and I talked about his retirement on Sunday. I don't see that happening for quite some time yet with the proviso that the Orientals are willing to produce trains. There are very few similarities between Scott and Mike Wolf and how their businesses are run.

R. Heil   Sunset / 3rd Rail / Golden Gate Depot

Glad Scott plans on being around - delivering great models. 🤗🙂🙃. He just needs to have enough of us Stay around and commit enough reservations to launch new products. 😬. Seriously - great product truly appreciated. 👍👍

"Can Scott Mann be far behind?"  Short answer... No.

Long Answer: As long as customers ask us to make models, and we get enough orders, then I will continue to make model trains.

I don't know what I would do with myself if I wasn't working on something. For me, this is my hobby, running the business, reviewing the designs, traveling and checking production, interacting with interesting and interested customers at the shows. Getting a little golf in with the factory guys.

I get up early, 2- 3 AM most days and chat with Korea and China (end of their day), answer emails and maybe go back to sleep for a few more hours. I work with the office (remotely for now), coming in on their off days.

I don't wake early because I have to. I have always been an early bird. I love driving around town with no one out except me and the animals. I see Deer, Skunks, Raccoons, Owls... I have to drive more cautiously at that time because the deer tend to jump out from the bushes when they see my lights.

Before COVID, I traveled extensively to Korea, China and Europe (When we make European models), and Chicago and the East Coast (York). And I am the biggest white knuckle flyer you ever met, but I still traveled. That part of the business is gravy for the soul. To be able to pat the guys that make this stuff on the back, hold production models, make small corrections and changes with eager smiles from the workers. Everyone is invested emotionally. How could I walk away from that.

As time goes on I feel obligated to keep going to help those that make the designs, tooling and models, work at our office, print the magazines, all trying to make a living at it. We all have pledged to help each other in business, and so I feel the same obligation.

Dad was the same way. He came to work even during his Chemo at 75 years old, most every day. He was pretty tired most of that time. He passed away at 78, leaving me to run the business. I remember walking around the office early in the morning, before anyone was there. I could hear his voice, words of advise. Things I already knew, but we had rehashed over and over during our 10 years working together almost every day. He too loved running the business.

So that's the long answer. I am here to stay, as long as I have support from the factories, customers and a little luck.

BTW: Would you guys be mad if I dropped the SD40-2 for something more popular? After all this time we only have 190 reservations, only 1/2 of what is needed.  What could the new diesel be that many want?

Scott Mann

@sdmann posted:

BTW: Would you guys be mad if I dropped the SD40-2 for something more popular? After all this time we only have 190 reservations, only 1/2 of what is needed.  What could the new diesel be that many want?

Scott Mann

Scott, I love what you and your team do for the hobby. Thank you.

I'd like to offer a suggestion:

When you make an announcement and list it on your website add a "counter board" on each project that clearly shows your minimum requirement and an updating tally of FIRM reservations.  Also Include a project "expiration date".

1.) I believe this simple communication will go a long way to settle things for all interested parties.

2.) It will serve as both motivation and a reality check for us modelers who want a particular prototype made.

3.) It should also allow you to be more responsive to your customers.  Creating an opportunity to make even more announcements, testing the interest for each, and more nimbly adjusting to revenue generating preferences.

I hope you consider it.

Thanks again.

- Will

Last edited by WITZ 41
@sdmann posted:

"Can Scott Mann be far behind?"  Short answer... No.

Long Answer: As long as customers ask us to make models, and we get enough orders, then I will continue to make model trains.

I don't know what I would do with myself if I wasn't working on something. For me, this is my hobby, running the business, reviewing the designs, traveling and checking production, interacting with interesting and interested customers at the shows. Getting a little golf in with the factory guys.

I get up early, 2- 3 AM most days and chat with Korea and China (end of their day), answer emails and maybe go back to sleep for a few more hours. I work with the office (remotely for now), coming in on their off days.

I don't wake early because I have to. I have always been an early bird. I love driving around town with no one out except me and the animals. I see Deer, Skunks, Raccoons, Owls... I have to drive more cautiously at that time because the deer tend to jump out from the bushes when they see my lights.

Before COVID, I traveled extensively to Korea, China and Europe (When we make European models), and Chicago and the East Coast (York). And I am the biggest white knuckle flyer you ever met, but I still traveled. That part of the business is gravy for the soul. To be able to pat the guys that make this stuff on the back, hold production models, make small corrections and changes with eager smiles from the workers. Everyone is invested emotionally. How could I walk away from that.

As time goes on I feel obligated to keep going to help those that make the designs, tooling and models, work at our office, print the magazines, all trying to make a living at it. We all have pledged to help each other in business, and so I feel the same obligation.

Dad was the same way. He came to work even during his Chemo at 75 years old, most every day. He was pretty tired most of that time. He passed away at 78, leaving me to run the business. I remember walking around the office early in the morning, before anyone was there. I could hear his voice, words of advise. Things I already knew, but we had rehashed over and over during our 10 years working together almost every day. He too loved running the business.

So that's the long answer. I am here to stay, as long as I have support from the factories, customers and a little luck.

BTW: Would you guys be mad if I dropped the SD40-2 for something more popular? After all this time we only have 190 reservations, only 1/2 of what is needed.  What could the new diesel be that many want?

Scott Mann

We're happy to read you will be around! For myself, I plan to keep purchasing your offerings not only because they are top-notch, but because you are great to work with. Also, it is a bonus to be able to conduct business with friends.

I like the idea of an SD40-2 run, but at half, maybe something like the Siemens Charger would get more interest? I'd also love to see the SD70ACe-T4 made.

Chris

Last edited by vash44

Well, way back when, I suggested a GP40-2 might do better, but probably not much better.  We've also discussed the new Amtrak Chargers, to go along with the Amfleet and Viewliner cars but that got zero interest.  I don't think the Dash 9s or E60s will fare much better, but I hope I am wrong, I could use several Dash9 chassis for my MTH/Lionel ES44s.  This is good for my finances.  It's also why Midwestern has a bucketload of my reservations.  

Hey Scott: Got the new LED lights you sent and already installed, they do look nice and the "flicker free" feature is very  much welcomed.

As for the SD40-2, yes, drop the project. As was mentioned above, having too many projects might be mudding up the waters in terms of reservations.

I have no opinion on what makes a project popular or not, (I would have thought the SD40-2 was a pretty sure bet) but it might be time to dust off some of the old models and dare I say, start to remake some of the more popular choices.

From a business point of view, Chevy did not stop making Corvettes because they feed the demand. Improvements were made, new customers entered the market and technology marched on.

In your case, many of your iconic models are more than 20 years old. New customers, new technology and quite frankly, very limited product is available on the secondary market. You and your staff can figure out what might be a good project based on past numbers, current secondary market availability and how new technology and manufacturing techniques might bring an old(er) project to market that would be in demand.

Charlie

Scott,

As I mentioned in an email a few weeks ago, with the impending closure of MTH, I'm looking to your company for my future purchases. I've previously suggested the New York Central K-Class Pacific in this thread and would also be interested in small steam engines such as a 2-6-0 and 4-6-0 (maybe even generic) if they are economically feasible. As for diesels, I prefer the smaller ones such as the GP7/9 and F3, which I already have on order. Continued best wishes for success to you and Sunset...

MELGAR

I will add my (2) cents.

I am pretty much thru with buying any new Lionel engines, steam or diesel. I am frankly tired of hoping for a model that is not broken or not working out of the box. 7 out of my last 10 Lionel engines had to go in for warranty work immediately or got sent back to the supplier. With MTH gone and Atlas back orders 3 years and waiting.......

I only plan to purchase 3rd Rail products from now on. That being said, I feel the price equals the quality.

Donald

@EMD posted:

Hi Scott,

With 190 reservations, what would the SD40-2 have to cost to have a production run?

For an estimate take $200K (that's the minimum for one or a thousand) and divide it by the number of models. So for 200 models $1K each.  And that's for 2020.  The Chinese government will give workers their 10-20% raise next year so next year it will be $220K or more.

And oh, for those I know are thinking it, that minimum for making them in the US is ~$500K in 2020.  Scott has already tried that route.

hmmmm what to ask for in place of the sd40-2? maybe something to go with those beautiful misouri pacific cars he is issuing. along with the other roads using like santafe, atlantic coast line, emd demonstrator, florida east coast, chicago & northwestern, rock island, union pacific. if not that, then something to go with the m&p cars he is issuing.

I saw somewhere in the thread we are just short of 200 reservations. I’ve a MP and a Frisco reserved. I’d up my MP to two to help get to Needed 275 numbers to get it to fly. 275 into 200,000 gets to  the 729$ current pricing.  250 reservations get to an 800 price point.  I could also double my Frisco too. If I’m a lonely Frisco fan I can switch the Frisco to SF.
ANYONE Else out there willing to make a final push ???????????
Can we Help Finally Make this a GO ?????
One last push ??? Or just pull the plug!!!!!!   Time to 👍 or 👎this offering.
If a no-go I’ll just realign my reservation “bux” into the Alco FA offering. Gotta get it moving too.
cheers !!! 🤗

Trainbub, I like your thinking

Scott,

Would it be worthwhile to see if existing reservation customers are interested in upping their reservation figure to make this project possible/worthwhile

Then maybe calculate a higher price

Just one last ditch effort to make this project a reality

Thanks for listening

Can we keep this thread on topic w/ 40-2s (please )

Ok folks. Final push time. To contribute to the push, I’ve doubled my MP and Frisco reservations to 2 each. We need 275 reservations to maintain the $729 price. I could go to $750 but not higher !

Scott.  Give it another month to see how this reactivated thread uptick Relates to total reservations. If we can’t get to the needed reservations, put it to bed and move on. I’ll move some Reservation money to increase my Alco FA Position.

cheers 🤗

I will simply state that this is what usually happens on any 3rd rail diesel these days.  There is this huge push to get to minimal reservations and then once it get produced those who didn't reserve ask for a second run once photos go up of the model.

In the past it was possible to do things like pilot models.  That is not today's reality.  So in as that horrible 80's song goes when it comes to pre-ordering, "You gotta have faith!"

I just can't quite justify going above two orders myself with current pre-ordrs.  Maybe I could go one more on a 3r ATSF one for a pair, but the 2 rail Conrail one I pre-orded is way out of my 2 rail modeling era.  Especially true now that I picked up an old Gem PRR F-3 Mogul detailed for the 1920's for my layout.

Pondering ...  the ATSF SD40-2 does go well with the 3r era I model at my club.... decisions, decisions.

It is silly to have the conversation in general for such an iconic locomotive that has never really been done well at this scale remotely close to this price point.

Well shoot, I'll add another one this weekend after I finish my current assignment for Scott.

Last edited by GG1 4877
@sdmann posted:

BTW: Would you guys be mad if I dropped the SD40-2 for something more popular? After all this time we only have 190 reservations, only 1/2 of what is needed.  What could the new diesel be that many want?

Well I’ll never buy another Sunset mod...

Just kidding.  😇

My feelings won’t be hurt.  However, could you please keep the option open in the future to try again?  Maybe when all the dust settles from the closing of MTH and people start changing their ordering behaviors.

As for what to replace it, I don’t have a good sense of the things you’ve offered before, so forgive me if these have been done recently.

1. GE C39-8 Conrail (humpbacks!)
2. GE U33C Conrail
3. GE U25C PRR or Conrail
4. GE U28C PRR or Conrail
5. GE U23B Conrail
6. GE U30C PRR or Conrail (already done by MTH)
7. GE U25B PRR or Conrail (already done by MTH)

@GG1 4877 posted:


It is silly to have the conversation in general for such an iconic locomotive that has never really been done well at this scale remotely close to this price point.

Agree!  If we can't get enough orders for this, how can anything get made?

Maybe we just have to educate everyone on just how bad the other SD40-2 offerings are!

@rplst8 posted:

Agree!  If we can't get enough orders for this, how can anything get made?

Maybe we just have to educate everyone on just how bad the other SD40-2 offerings are!

Well I’ve 2 MTH MP units - one powered one dummy. They are decent though sit Way to high which I hate. The dummy is a steal though. If the SS SD40-2s take off, these old ones hit eBay to help fund my reservations. 😬

cheers

@rplst8 posted:

Agree!  If we can't get enough orders for this, how can anything get made?

Maybe we just have to educate everyone on just how bad the other SD40-2 offerings are!

2R models have more reservations from what I understand. Makes sense as Lionel has done SD40 and SD40-2, Atlas has done SD40, and MTH has done SD40-2 in 3R. I doubt that the majority of 3Rers care or even know the difference between a 40 and a 40-2. The only RTR 2R SD40-2 that I'm aware of is the MTH which is Proto 3/2 capable, but requires you to fix the pilots and extend the handrails yourself. The 3rd Rail model is much more in line with what 2R modelers are looking for. The reality is that the MOQ requirements seem to be going up and without good orders from 3R and 2R these projects don't get done. My guess is that it is too modern. Seem like the transition era still sells the best. And yes, I know the Dash 9 was announced but I'll believe that when I see them arrive.

@jonnyspeed posted:

2R models have more reservations from what I understand. Makes sense as Lionel has done SD40 and SD40-2, Atlas has done SD40, and MTH has done SD40-2 in 3R. I doubt that the majority of 3Rers care or even know the difference between a 40 and a 40-2. The only RTR 2R SD40-2 that I'm aware of is the MTH which is Proto 3/2 capable, but requires you to fix the pilots and extend the handrails yourself. The 3rd Rail model is much more in line with what 2R modelers are looking for. The reality is that the MOQ requirements seem to be going up and without good orders from 3R and 2R these projects don't get done. My guess is that it is too modern. Seem like the transition era still sells the best. And yes, I know the Dash 9 was announced but I'll believe that when I see them arrive.

I have the MTH SD40-2s.  They are ok but to tall and couplers are monsters. To bad MTH never upgraded the model. They did a nice job on their U30C. I have - with scale wheels and fixed Pilot. Sweet. Swapped wheels to “hi-rail” wheels to best navigate Ross turnouts.

It would be great to get the SS model off the ground. We need a top quality model of the SD40-2.

Unless other orders come in, we can pretty much consider this project dead.  Everyone says they want modern or modernish locomotives, but the orders haven't yet seem to support that notion with 3rd Rail at least.  If Scott could get the orders it would go for sure.  Granted the SD40-2 is not exactly modern.  I was 2 when it was first catalogued.  However, it has had such a long life span like all the -40 series EMDs, I am surprised it has not seen much tractive effort so to speak.

Of course, Amfleet was something I pitched to Scott over 5 years and once the Viewliners were added, it took off and will be delivered by April.  Perhaps there is hope?  I have preorders in for ATSF in 3r and Conrail in 2r.  Might have to add another 3 Rail ATSF one just to get the orders up by at least a little.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Unless other orders come in, we can pretty much consider this project dead.  Everyone says they want modern or modernish locomotives, but the orders haven't yet seem to support that notion with 3rd Rail at least.  If Scott could get the orders it would go for sure.  Granted the SD40-2 is not exactly modern.  I was 2 when it was first catalogued.  However, it has had such a long life span like all the -40 series EMDs, I am surprised it has not seen much tractive effort so to speak.

Of course, Amfleet was something I pitched to Scott over 5 years and once the Viewliners were added, it took off and will be delivered by April.  Perhaps there is hope?  I have preorders in for ATSF in 3r and Conrail in 2r.  Might have to add another 3 Rail ATSF one just to get the orders up by at least a little.

Well it over four years since this offering was posted on the 3rd Rail web page. I’ve upped my order from two to four to Try to help but that’s small in the greater scheme of things if we are hundreds of reservations short of commerciality. I’d love to see this offering happen but it just doesn’t excite the customer base. I also think other offerings are competing for the same $s. The Alco FA hasn’t reached the numbers needed either.  Even if this SD40-2 project appears “dead”, I think it’s time to officially Declare it Dead and Remove it from the web page. Release those Reservation $s. My $s will get Redirected to other projects - hopefully helping them reach an “it’s a go” moment and moving them to design and production !!!!!!!  Hopefully other clients will redirect their released reservation $s to other projects too.

Scott. Time cancel it !!! Try to see if other projects get a bit of a boost from that. Boy we still have Lots of cool projects out there to buy into !!!!!

What does everyone else think ???????  🤔

Cheers 🙂

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

YAY !!!!  
Thanks for a FAST Positive response Scott. Your quick positioning of a SD40-2 run in 2021 (now just around the corner) is important for those that have gotten Weary with the Wait - Myself included. Not that long ago you asked you ask if we’d be upset if it was canceled and replaced with another model. I Really want my MP and Frisco SD40-2s but till now, that happening looked pretty Dismal !!!  So moving on became an option.
Hopefully SD and FA runs won’t have to be run together as I have large (for me) orders in both - run together the budget is blown.

And I appreciate your sharing the production “pecking order” too.  Been awhile since we’ve seen one of your “update “ emails. It would be good to get all this info out to your base.  Says Choir member to the preacher -  Just sayin......

Last edited by TrainBub
@TrainBub posted:

Well it over four years since this offering was posted on the 3rd Rail web page. I’ve upped my order from two to four to Try to help but that’s small in the greater scheme of things if we are hundreds of reservations short of commerciality. I’d love to see this offering happen but it just doesn’t excite the customer base. I also think other offerings are competing for the same $s. The Alco FA hasn’t reached the numbers needed either.  Even if this SD40-2 project appears “dead”, I think it’s time to officially Declare it Dead and Remove it from the web page. Release those Reservation $s. My $s will get Redirected to other projects - hopefully helping them reach an “it’s a go” moment and moving them to design and production !!!!!!!  Hopefully other clients will redirect their released reservation $s to other projects too.

Scott. Time cancel it !!! Try to see if other projects get a bit of a boost from that. Boy we still have Lots of cool projects out there to buy into !!!!!

What does everyone else think ???????  🤔

Cheers 🙂

"Cancel It !!!"  That can be a tough call. Dollars are always coming available as other projects get delivered or people discover 3rd Rail offerings. I know I was willing to wait  for the recent Challenger and so are many of the SD40-2 buyers for theirs. But, I FEEL young, not my age. For its' business model, a more precise BTO, 3rd Rail needs to keep projects in the pipeline.  Maybe, as someone on the forum suggested, Scott could show a count down of orders needed to push a project over the line. That might help focus dollars. Ultimately, there has to be interest. Who knows why once started a project  gets stalled.

That's certainly encouraging news. If this happens then I may just add a third SD40-2 if it meant a certain road name being done. So far I have 3 in mind.

Even if 2021 is a no-go for the SD40-2 what harm is there in keeping the model on the website? Either you want the model or you don't and I want it so if that means waiting another year or two then I'm OK with that.

Last edited by catnap

Scott,
Just to stir the pot a Wee Bit More. We’ve 17 models to choose from and that’s really Great. I’m sure the GP Monster offering has been very trying to execute and QC ...... But..... There might be a few Roads that could be Added to the SD 40-2 offering - say bring up to 20. I know that’s a lot but it Might help get some precious numbers. What pops to the top that are missing from the offering are SP, DRG (if not Tunnel motor variant), and CNW.  There are others but I grabbed only what quickly Hit me with reservation potential in original buyers category.  

Any takers for at least these three ???  If so - EMAIL Scott !!!   If we are maxed out with options - so be it.
My two bits worth.

Last edited by TrainBub
@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

Scott how about h10? When will we see it?

The railroads to add would be

MISSOURI PACIFIC original scheme, no dynamic brakes

MISSOURI PACIFIC no dynamic brakes, repainted in UNION PACIFIC colors

GTW logo on ex-MP without dynamic brakes, in UP scheme

GRAND TRUNK WESTERN GTW full blue and orange repaint

SOO LINE original 1969 paint scheme

Chicago & North Western 1970's scheme variations

After an examination of the roster list I checked on the history of the CN painted GTW 5938 that is shown as a choice.

CN 5171 became KCS 6620 then became GTW 5938

Perhaps it could be offered in the original CN scheme and number, plus the KCS scheme and number, to get the most out of the distinct variation.

GTW 5937 or GTW 5936 should have been a choice as well.



Andrew

@sdmann posted:

Wait just a minute...

I'm not ready to give up just yet. In 2021 we'll make the Krauss Maffei, the EA /EB, E1A/B, F3 rerun, then there's a gap. I suspect that is when I will do a short run of SD40-2 and later FA/FBs. It's foolish for me to throw away reservations. That's like throwing away your customers. People start to get upset if their orders are cancelled on them. Not gonna do that.

Just wait, it will happen I think.   Scott Mann

Scott, Super excited to hear this might be a go later in 2021.  :-)   As mentioned to you earlier, I am in for CN and IC variants.

@vash44 posted:

Sounds great to me Mike! Gives me hope the IC may be a possible write-in. I put in for 3 of them.

Good luck getting a road to a needed minimum number required via “write-ins”. This forum gets Some exposure but may not be enough. You need to get Scott to add your specific wants on to his webpage with a real reservation option. To do that will require a lot of emails and write-in reservations. Yah I know it’s complicated.  Total numbers, numbers for each road, diff details.......... etc.   You need some more exposure !!!!  Just saying........Good luck. You have a bit of time.

Last edited by TrainBub
@TrainBub posted:

Yah I know it’s complicated.  Total numbers, numbers for each road, diff details.......... etc.   You need some more exposure !!!!  Just saying........Good luck. You have a bit of time.

I wonder if something like instant runoff voting would help getting production numbers up.  Everyone who submits an order would rank the road names they want.  Then, whichever ones get the most votes based on ranking, would get made if they meet the thresholds.

@TrainBub posted:

Offering just updated. Check out website.
more offerings, scheduled for 2021, Very Modest price bump.  
Time to step up people!!!! It’s starting to roll !!!
Bravo Scott !!!!

A HUGE thank you to Scott! Illinois Central is coming! Hope it can hit the required reservations! Very excited for a chance to have nicely done and updated Death Stars!

Glad to see this is back from the brink.

There are some interesting variations not shown.  If you google around enough, you can find several other high-nose variations of of the SD40-2, including 2 N&W paint schemes, 2 CPRail schemes.  As for other paint schemes, I'm surprised not to see the EMD Demo unit and the Rock Island. The RI scheme is a very eye catching red and Demo units always seem to sell well for Scott in the 1st Generation units.



I'm willing to help proof the CAD and the SOU artwork if/when it all comes to fruition.  Scott - you know how to reach me.

@DaveJfr0 posted:

Glad to see this is back from the brink.

There are some interesting variations not shown.  If you google around enough, you can find several other high-nose variations of of the SD40-2, including 2 N&W paint schemes, 2 CPRail schemes.  As for other paint schemes, I'm surprised not to see the EMD Demo unit and the Rock Island. The RI scheme is a very eye catching red and Demo units always seem to sell well for Scott in the 1st Generation units.



I'm willing to help proof the CAD and the SOU artwork if/when it all comes to fruition.  Scott - you know how to reach me.

Dave,

As always when it comes to Southern, we will talk!

Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed.  I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix.  If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile.  It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be.  I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.

While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate.  Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.

Excited this is moving forward!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Now that the heavy lifting of the Amtrak project has been completed.  I have been directed by Scott to begin research on this project which starts with a design matrix.  If you have any information you would like to send, road number requests, knowledge of road specific details, photographs, etc. my email is in my profile.  It will take a few months to get the full matrix together, but the more we can incorporate now, the better the project will be.  I always start with a library of photos from my own collection of books as well as what I can find from the internet and those who have good photos and other information to share.

While I can make no guarantees that every variation can be captured, as always Sunset tries to bring as much road specific details and paint schemes that the tooling can accommodate.  Tooling has come a long way in its flexibility since the prototype of the first plastic shelled project in the E7 of 2011.

Excited this is moving forward!

Johnathan,

A daunting task, I'll bet. In addition to road name variations, there are probably variations for each road name as equipment and appliances were added or removed over the locomotive's service life. So those choices will have to be made. I'll likely email you some thoughts and suggestions on the Santa Fe versions. Thanks in advance for all your efforts on this project. It is indeed exciting to see it move forward.

RM

Rich,

I'd enjoy seeing your input on this project.  Era is always an issue.  We have been moving towards as-built on recent projects as of late, but it really is about what era will generate the most interest.  I have lots of ATSF books now so if you want to point out pages from certain books I should be looking at or past issues of the Warbonnet, that would be really helpful.  I am a member of the Santa Fe Railway Historical & Modeling Society so I have about 18 months of back issues.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Paul, these are going to be 072 minimum recommended curves for 3 rail and 54" radius for 2 rail versions.  That is typical for all the 6 axle 3rd rail locomotives of this length due to the drive system.

Ok... I'm gonna ask it. Whats the difference in the drive system between a 2 and 3 rail one, besides the wheels, that makes the 2R one need another 36" to turn around? I'm really asking because I'd probably buy one of these, but owing to the fact that my 2R layout was a re-lay of a 3R one, the min radius of it is 36" (O72). Its what? 17" long?

Its a bit apples to oranges because of the drive setup, but several MTH and Atlas 6 axle diesels will do 36"R without any issue (even ones that say bigger on the box). If this drive can do O72 for 3 rail, what is different with 2? Does the 3R one omit details and hanging bits that get in the way?

Last edited by Boilermaker1

The only difference is the scale coupler, electronics, and the wheels being all flanged.  The Kadee couplers have slightly closer coupling.  You probably could get a two rail version to go around a shorter radius with a long shank Kadee coupler. However, having all three axles flanged is the real issue I believe.  When I modified an MTH GE 6 axle so that all the axles had flanges it no longer would go around an 072 curve.  Having said all that, I understand that 3rd Rail 2 rail locomotives run on a 48" radius if the track is laid well.

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