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I always hear that from 2 rail guys when you start talking about accuracy and detail on a 3 rail model. They don't understand the acceptance of the third rial. N scale is a throw back to when I was a kid and lived in a 3 bedroom house with 5 brothers. If I wanted to have a train it had to fit under the bed so 3 by 6 feet was my max. I got rid of a lot of it but I have an affinity for the Kato passenger trains. I have most of the good ones plus some TGV sets and Japanese Shinkansen sets. Its hard to see but its a lot of fun to upgrade them with sound decoders. I always like figuring out how to fit it all in the tiny little shell.

Last edited by Former Member
645 posted:
elementdude195 posted:

Could I get an explanation of the trains these guys make? I am hoping an owner of their trains could chime in. I understand it's more pricey and has superior details. Looks like these will be ABS plastic, I always thought all they made were die-cast or brass.

I also couldn't figure out what the suggestion is for. Is that how someone would get multiple road numbers like the member above my post saying 2 Kodachromes reserved or is it for something really custom like a specific road number or something odd? Am I missing anything else? I am obviously not an owner of their trains and don't want to take a leap into the unknown if I put in a reservation without some research.

Thanks

These SD40-2's (and most other 3rd Rail diesel locomotive and passenger car offerings) should be highly detailed ABS plastic. I believe the 3rd Rail steam locomotives are brass.

As for suggestions it is exactly what it sounds like. Rather than announce certain road names with no flexibility 3rd Rail has elected to go with the popular vote here - roadnames not part of the official announcement but requested / reserved / pre-ordered will be made *IF* enough reservations are received for same. "Suggestion" is not really the proper word here as that won't mean it will be produced. What counts here is a pre-order / reservation such as "I will buy two of 'Railroad X' in this paint scheme."

Using the Santa Fe Kodachrome scheme already mentioned in this thread as an example here is how it works. Someone suggested it. Fine, but that is not a pre-order / reservation. Now if someone orders say (2) of them using the 'suggestion' area on the order form that counts as a vote to produce it. Now for the tricky part - there has to be enough orders to go ahead with production of a particular roadname. If 3rd Rail only gets orders for (2) Kodachrome SD40-2's they will not be produced. Based on past discussions about previous 3rd Rail diesels I believe at least (20) of a particular paint scheme need to be ordered to get it on the production schedule but the minimum quantity required is known only to 3rd Rail unless they choose to put the number out here.

Muddying the waters here is in the case of the Chicago & North Western SD40-2 is that there are three different paint schemes: 1970's Traditional Yellow, 1980's Safety/Zito Yellow and 1990's Traditional Yellow. There is also a 'Falcon Service' variation (2 units) of the 1970's Traditional Yellow and an 'Operation Lifesaver' version of the 1990's Traditional Yellow too. Both could be offered since it is a variation of the basic paint scheme where only additional graphics are needed. Anyway, there could be over twenty people who want to order a CNW SD40-2 but then question is how many want which paint scheme? If only one person wants 1980's Safety/Zito Yellow but eighteen want 1970's Traditional Yellow it is obvious which one will be produced. If a "tie" as in ten of each then I don't know how 3rd Rail handles that situation - could do both if factory agrees to it, choose one over the other or contact all who pre-ordered one explaining the situation asking for votes/changes to tip the scales in favor of one scheme?

Hope this helps as I experienced some of this stuff when I was reserving some of 3rd Rail's E8/E9 models earlier this year.

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:
elementdude195 posted:

Could I get an explanation of the trains these guys make? I am hoping an owner of their trains could chime in. I understand it's more pricey and has superior details. Looks like these will be ABS plastic, I always thought all they made were die-cast or brass.

I also couldn't figure out what the suggestion is for. Is that how someone would get multiple road numbers like the member above my post saying 2 Kodachromes reserved or is it for something really custom like a specific road number or something odd? Am I missing anything else? I am obviously not an owner of their trains and don't want to take a leap into the unknown if I put in a reservation without some research.

Thanks

This is my attempt to answer the question regarding details.

The latest 3rd rail diesel offerings have all been ABS plastic with lots of separately applied brass detail parts. What sets these diesels apart from the main stream manufacturers is, all the road specific details, the horizontal drive system which is much better and stronger then China drive. This also allows room for a fully detailed hand painted cab interior. Most other manufacturers have the vertical can motor sticking right up through the cab, put an engineer figure in and call it a day. In 3rd rail models the motor isn't near the cab but it's right above the fuel tank, allowing room for a full sized cab interior.

Fully sprung brass and metal trucks, And lastly fixed pilots with full length hand rails on all the models. Hope this helps. I can post pics of my 3rd rail E7 later when I'm home. For me... Those details plus the drive system are worth (in my own oppinion) the higher price. 

If your more art, history, and detail driven in your model train purchases I would try a 3rd rail model. I hope this helps a little bit. Regarding your first sentences asking about abs bodies and detail.

David

Thank you for the replies. Need clarification if I do end up say buying two of the same railroads does Sunset guys give me different road numbers automatically? Also, when announced units are ordered and that special instruction field is filled out it counts as an order for two units even though the suggestion may not be considered. Correct? 

elementdude195 posted:
645 posted:
elementdude195 posted:

Could I get an explanation of the trains these guys make? I am hoping an owner of their trains could chime in. I understand it's more pricey and has superior details. Looks like these will be ABS plastic, I always thought all they made were die-cast or brass.

I also couldn't figure out what the suggestion is for. Is that how someone would get multiple road numbers like the member above my post saying 2 Kodachromes reserved or is it for something really custom like a specific road number or something odd? Am I missing anything else? I am obviously not an owner of their trains and don't want to take a leap into the unknown if I put in a reservation without some research.

Thanks

These SD40-2's (and most other 3rd Rail diesel locomotive and passenger car offerings) should be highly detailed ABS plastic. I believe the 3rd Rail steam locomotives are brass.

As for suggestions it is exactly what it sounds like. Rather than announce certain road names with no flexibility 3rd Rail has elected to go with the popular vote here - roadnames not part of the official announcement but requested / reserved / pre-ordered will be made *IF* enough reservations are received for same. "Suggestion" is not really the proper word here as that won't mean it will be produced. What counts here is a pre-order / reservation such as "I will buy two of 'Railroad X' in this paint scheme."

Using the Santa Fe Kodachrome scheme already mentioned in this thread as an example here is how it works. Someone suggested it. Fine, but that is not a pre-order / reservation. Now if someone orders say (2) of them using the 'suggestion' area on the order form that counts as a vote to produce it. Now for the tricky part - there has to be enough orders to go ahead with production of a particular roadname. If 3rd Rail only gets orders for (2) Kodachrome SD40-2's they will not be produced. Based on past discussions about previous 3rd Rail diesels I believe at least (20) of a particular paint scheme need to be ordered to get it on the production schedule but the minimum quantity required is known only to 3rd Rail unless they choose to put the number out here.

Muddying the waters here is in the case of the Chicago & North Western SD40-2 is that there are three different paint schemes: 1970's Traditional Yellow, 1980's Safety/Zito Yellow and 1990's Traditional Yellow. There is also a 'Falcon Service' variation (2 units) of the 1970's Traditional Yellow and an 'Operation Lifesaver' version of the 1990's Traditional Yellow too. Both could be offered since it is a variation of the basic paint scheme where only additional graphics are needed. Anyway, there could be over twenty people who want to order a CNW SD40-2 but then question is how many want which paint scheme? If only one person wants 1980's Safety/Zito Yellow but eighteen want 1970's Traditional Yellow it is obvious which one will be produced. If a "tie" as in ten of each then I don't know how 3rd Rail handles that situation - could do both if factory agrees to it, choose one over the other or contact all who pre-ordered one explaining the situation asking for votes/changes to tip the scales in favor of one scheme?

Hope this helps as I experienced some of this stuff when I was reserving some of 3rd Rail's E8/E9 models earlier this year.

Dj'sOgaugetrains posted:
elementdude195 posted:

Could I get an explanation of the trains these guys make? I am hoping an owner of their trains could chime in. I understand it's more pricey and has superior details. Looks like these will be ABS plastic, I always thought all they made were die-cast or brass.

I also couldn't figure out what the suggestion is for. Is that how someone would get multiple road numbers like the member above my post saying 2 Kodachromes reserved or is it for something really custom like a specific road number or something odd? Am I missing anything else? I am obviously not an owner of their trains and don't want to take a leap into the unknown if I put in a reservation without some research.

Thanks

This is my attempt to answer the question regarding details.

The latest 3rd rail diesel offerings have all been ABS plastic with lots of separately applied brass detail parts. What sets these diesels apart from the main stream manufacturers is, all the road specific details, the horizontal drive system which is much better and stronger then China drive. This also allows room for a fully detailed hand painted cab interior. Most other manufacturers have the vertical can motor sticking right up through the cab, put an engineer figure in and call it a day. In 3rd rail models the motor isn't near the cab but it's right above the fuel tank, allowing room for a full sized cab interior.

Fully sprung brass and metal trucks, And lastly fixed pilots with full length hand rails on all the models. Hope this helps. I can post pics of my 3rd rail E7 later when I'm home. For me... Those details plus the drive system are worth (in my own oppinion) the higher price. 

If your more art, history, and detail driven in your model train purchases I would try a 3rd rail model. I hope this helps a little bit. Regarding your first sentences asking about abs bodies and detail.

David

Thank you for the replies. Need clarification if I do end up say buying two of the same railroads does Sunset guys give me different road numbers automatically? Also, when announced units are ordered and that special instruction field is filled out it counts as an order for two units even though the suggestion may not be considered. Correct? 

Yes if you order 2 of the same road name you will get 2 seperate cab numbers. The only time they don't do that is if the engine prototypically only has 1 or 2 cab numbers (example would be Pennsy 1 stripe green alco PA's. Only 2 were painted like that so only 2 cab numbers will be made.)

im not sure about the 2nd part of your question. If you order 2 engines of an announced road name. You will be invoiced for those engines shortly before they arrive. If they are not produced then your order will be cancelled. If you write in a suggestion (example 2 Cargill sd40-2's) and it's just you and like 1 other person who orders that road name. That's not enough to make that road name. But if they meet the minimum requirement; i.e. Enough ppl order Cargill sd40-2's, then your suggested engines will be produced. 

Matt Makens posted:

There is, you go to the 3RD Rail website and look at either the announcement page or the reservation page

The list that is shown is no gaurantee that any particular scheme will be produced.  It will be 6 months or so before the list becomes close to being finalized.  And even then...  It is quite fascinating to watch people whine that they missed the deadline and there are insufficient reservations for something and all of a sudden they want to reserve something. The Amtrak E8/9s had 6 reservations when that happened and within a couple weeks after the cancellation there were a total of 20 reservations.  It's magic I tell ya.

If you are looking for a list of those that already have sufficient reservations you would have to ask Scott,  who, OBW, is back in China inspecting the SD7/9s and S-12s for shipment from China; and other stuff.  

As of last week there were none that had met the minimum.

Matt Makens posted:

I know Matt, I'm being patient. I just let the dog off the chain there for a minute. I'm pretty excited to get em, they're my favorite engine. I'm also pretty stoked about the rest of the el cap coming too

I know. Just jerking your chain. I'm trying to figure out next years train budget as I'm leaning toward petitioning SD40-2's in CNW livery Zito "See it from Space" yellow would be nice, but I'll take 'em any way 3rd Rail does them if they get enough reservations. If next year's budget is bigger, I might order a pair in Santa Fe as well.

I like the traditional yellow especially the late versions with the Operation Life Saver logo. I'll take what I can get but since our hopes are hinged on the CNW matching some UP locos do Scott can use the same tooling I think late model versions and schemes are our best bet

Guys, on the E8/E9s we are good to go on most all roads listed as good to go. We will be negotiating the contract for this project next week. Also, will be discussing the possibility of SD40-2 high hood modifications to the tools.

Your enthusiasm and orders is what make these projects possible.

We've also been working with QSI on the 2 Rail sound system to have a dual speaker, true stereo Q3 system installed in the E8/E9s. For all models we will be using ball bearing supported journals for full transfer of power from the Canon motor and sprung as well in both 2 Rail and 3 Rail.

Once we have a contract signed we will send out reservation confirmations on the E8/E9s next week.

 

Cheers,

I have no dog in this fight, yet, but if I decide to pull the trigger on these engines it will be for the traditional C&NW colors, (Apple Green and Stagecoach yellow) NOT the Zito Yellow.

I’m with Matt, its nice to get anything in C&NW, but the original yellow and green are so much nicer then the other options/variations that were used through the later years.

Obviously I only have a say if I pay.

Charlie

Last edited by Charlie

I have two, brass, 3rd Rail, Dash-9's in Santa Fe War bonnet colors; one of them used to reside in a display case in our condo living room until we sold the place; I wanted it where I could see it's beautiful paint scheme and details, every time I walked past it!  I am still in awe of both qualities but should have ordered the second one in BNSF lettering; oh well, guess I'm stuck with it/them!  I bought them because they were brass and super detailed; I am still on the fence about buying this new plastic-bodied diesel for about what I paid for each of my brass models. 

Ron Balderrama posted:

I have two, brass, 3rd Rail, Dash-9's in Santa Fe War bonnet colors; one of them used to reside in a display case in our condo living room until we sold the place; I wanted it where I could see it's beautiful paint scheme and details, every time I walked past it!  I am still in awe of both qualities but should have ordered the second one in BNSF lettering; oh well, guess I'm stuck with it/them!  I bought them because they were brass and super detailed; I am still on the fence about buying this new plastic-bodied diesel for about what I paid for each of my brass models. 

Scotts SD40-2s should be a very highly detailed model, JMO but the 3rd Rail GE-9s were a very plain model with minimal detail, the best thing about them was that they were built in brass and available in both 2 and 3 rail versions I don't know how well they run but I have seen them at shows over the years going for 400 +/-.

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