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@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

I confirmed today that we will be making tooling for both the SD40-2 and SD40T-2. So SP, D&RGW, UP will be Tunnel Motors with longer Chassis, Tank and Rear with accurate details.

Please reserve your "TUNNEL MOTORS" at the link below.

http://www.3rdrail.com/reservation.htm

Well this is a pleasant update. I suggested adding SP and DRG last December and got criticized as they were different - Tunnel motors.  Maybe I wasn’t the only one to suggest but sometimes it helps to stir the pot publicly. Perhaps more people then emailed Scott wanting them and he acted on the demand. It’s a good move for Scott as the three roads (also UP) added are popular and the additions should add some decent numbers to the total run !!!!  (But my MKT was canceled 😖 Oh well - it’s not like there’s nothing else that  I want - sarcasm).  
Nice line-up revision.
Thanks Scott

Last edited by TrainBub

As with all previous models there will be 4 numbers if there were 4 or more numbers of the prototype.  Scott and I talked about it a couple of days ago and he said he would discuss with the builder.  They bought it.  How awesome is that!  As usual there will be a minimum to make it doable so reserve away.

Also, I guess it has to be said again.  I know these have been resold to additional railroads who have redecorated them so if you want to reserve them in those other roads, LET SCOTT KNOW!  Phone, email, snail mail, whatever.

Also,  the short short hood will be standard unless people prefer to order then with the extended short hoods.  Only one short hood length will be made for both the standard and tunnel motors as the short hood is part of the shell mold so make your preferences known!

Oh, this means the SP and DRGW standard SD40-2s will be replaced with the tunnel motors so no standard SD40-2s for SP or DRGW.  UP will be both.

Last edited by rdunniii

The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request.  Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.

So we will hold these ideas for a second run.

Is it too late to change my mind on the paint scheme I ordered?  I ordered W&LE, but might change to Conrail or Conrail Quality.

If so, what do people think - I can't decide.  I grew up on the former PRR mainline near Cresson mountain and the Gallitzin Tunnels, so Conrail was a regular sight for me.  However, I'm really picky about the shade of blue... too many other models over they years out way too bright/light.

OTOH, I was always a fan of the DRGW speed lettering and orange/black paint... W&LE is a way to get that in an eastern railroad.

Decisions!

@sdmann posted:

The days of 50 road names per project are over. There are tipping points where we pushed the factory too hard (GP79) and they pushed back. I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run or the price goes up for each unit in the run, all of them. There are a lot of good reasons for that. The painting and lettering is all hand done, very labor intensive. Each paint color is very expensive. Decals and decal corrections are very expensive. So I will abide by their request.  Even if that means fewer models ordered, they want to limit the complexity of each run.

So we will hold these ideas for a second run.

Thanks for this significant update Scott. It gives us some insight into the complexity of your business. Many think that more numbers all at once is all that counts. The roads limited to 20 is a reasonable way to control the complexities involved in getting too large. I Will Welcome second runs as my “wants” in one large run usually exceeds my budget - and I end up having to pass on purchasing some roads. Hopefully the two runs can be in back to back years. Managing which roads in each run become a tough issue. Loading run one with big popular roads Will end up making run two difficult to pull off with only smaller or less popular roads. A mix will be needed.
And perhaps by not getting large, it will allow us to see more different models go to production in a more timely fashion.
Cheers !!!

TrainBub

Hi,

Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?

From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.

I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan posted:

Hi,

Could Scott please comment on what era would be chosen for railroads that inherited these locomotives?

From reading posts on this forum, I understood that customers of Sunset Models prefer As-Delivered details and paint schemes but some contemporary railroads that Sunset is offering in this run, seem to have inherited these locomotives post mergers or acquisitions of older railroads resulting in different details, patches.

I might remember seeing BNSF locomotives inherited from BN and ATSF. Maybe Norfolk Southern had high and low hood versions inherited from Southern and Conrail.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

Many of these engines changed hands thru the years.  Wiki only lists original buyers. As hard as it’s been to get this run moving towards production, it Sounds like potential for another run could be there with subsequent engine buyers. Let Scott be aware of what you want !!!  Email him. And Start a campaign with like minded friends.

I reserved 1 this morning but had doubts post preordering and decided to write my earlier post.

Even though BNSF was an option, I was unsure if they would be the paint scheme from the 90’s or the H3, Orange and Black, that I frequently see around where I live, a scheme that I like. I prefer modern locomotives.

I could visualize As-Delivered scheme for obsolete railroads like BN or ATSF but decided to get clarification regarding paint schemes for contemporary railroads that might not have had any As-Delivered version, as Scott is also proposing those contemporary railroads for this initial run.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.

Obviously, the W&LE was not the original purchaser. These were acquired from previous owners, mostly Milwaukee Road, MoPac & UP. The W&LE SD40-2's remain relatively unchanged other than having ditch lights and Nathan K5LA's. Other details like dynamic brakes and rooftop fan housings are unchanged from the originals.

I emailed Jonathan about the variations. I prefer the models with 4000 gallon fuel tanks so that rules out any Milwaukee Road units. I'm OK with either 81" noses or 88" noses but would probably like 2 of each, however if all 4 were of one type or the other that would be just fine, whichever is easier to produce.

For the BN model, will it have a beacon on the top front of the cab?  If someone with more knowledge regarding the BN use of these lights would comment, that would be welcomed.  As an example, in this photo for BN 8052 taken in 1979, clearly shows the beacon, yet in this photo of the same engine taken in 1990, the beacon has been removed.  If you look closely, you can also see a difference in the state of the marker lights. 

So, if you are taking suggestions, my preference would be to add all the lights.

Thanks for listening.

Same question with Tunnel Motors.

As built with the full light pack?

As time went on there were tweaks to the lights.... beacons got added, the high headlights and gyralights came off, ditch lights went on.

Speed Letters or Roman?

The tunnel motors have enough evolutionary changes  to be their own project.

If UP is an option, then I assume its the final form with the high headlight plated and the gyralight removed, but you need to study the pictures as its a 'no 2 alike' scenario.

I'd love the snoot noses, but I understand the need for standardized cabs and noses. If the lighting causes more nose tooling to be necessary... maybe Late model 123" Snoot nose with just a headlight and the notch from the gyralite + ditch lights (8300 numbers), and as built with 88" nose and the full lights pack?

Last edited by Boilermaker1
@catnap posted:

I have 2 2-rail W&LE models ordered from 2016. If I know W&LE will make the cut I may order 2 more just to have all 4 cab #s.

...



OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me.  If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done.  But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will.  One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works.  The 20 variations cutoff?  From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations.  The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.

Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.

@rdunniii posted:

OK, I'm sorry, it must be me, but that makes no sense to me.  If 5 people reserve 2 each, =10, they will not get done.  But if 5 people reserve 4 each, =20, it will.  One person reserving 20 or 2 people reserving 10 also works.  The 20 variations cutoff?  From past history the 20 unit minimum reservations will cut it down to 20 or less variations.  The ones that get cut are usually less than 5-6.

Contrarily, if Scott moves a popular variation to a 2nd run to get a 2nd run going then he will loose 30-40 1st run reservations and poof the 1st run is in jeopardy.

You must have have a hard time understanding simple concepts. Perhaps I need to draw you a picture.

If their are 18 reservations for a road, then obviously 2 more will meet the minimum. So, if W&LE needs 2 more reservations to get done, I will add 2 more.

Do you need a calculator to understand simple math?

@catnap posted:

You must have have a hard time understanding simple concepts. Perhaps I need to draw you a picture.

If their are 18 reservations for a road, then obviously 2 more will meet the minimum. So, if W&LE needs 2 more reservations to get done, I will add 2 more.

Do you need a calculator to understand simple math?

Because you're never going to know how many reservations there are for each.  That's why.  Even when I reserved the number required to make the F7 demonstrators  I never knew the total number done, only the number I needed to purchase at the end.  He and the builder will make the decision on which variants are a go and you're only going to know if it's a no go when reservations close and all the numbers are set for the builder. You're done.  He never publishes the numbers for each variation.  

It's nice to see that this project has moved beyond "go" to now include the tunnel motor variant. I've always thought those, well... cool, but I'll resist the temptation for now. Have to take care of the home road first. But if indeed there's a second run on this project, be it straight SD40-2, or tunnel motors, I'll be in for that too.

RM

So what are the 20 roads you are going to do Scott?

Not known yet.  The ones that have been cancelled usually had less than 5 reservations.  There are also potentially versions that will be done that are not even advertised.  If a hobby shop or a person wants a version done just for them and reserves the minimum required that version will be done and counts towards the 20.  Even versions of versions are not known and depends on versions people have reserved.  If there are 10 reservations for MP without dynamic brakes in X paint and every other version has less guess which one will be produced.  If only one version is advertised then it is reasonable that only one version will be built.  Usually people who have made specific preferences known will have the opportunity to back out, otherwise you get what is built.

You can still email Scott to reserve one that has been cancelled. There's an old saying "If it weren't for the last moment nothing would ever get done".  They sit for months with no additional reservations and when he announces reservations closing reservations magically show up.  And that certainly has been true here.  Cancelled ones have been revived and ones on the bubble cancelled in the past.  He tried with the GP7/9s to do everything and that did not turn out well, so the builder limited it at 20 versions per run from now on.  

Last edited by rdunniii
@rdunniii posted:

Not known yet.  The ones that have been cancelled usually had less than 5 reservations.  There are also potentially versions that will be done that are not even advertised.  If a hobby shop or a person wants a version done just for them and reserves the minimum required that version will be done and counts towards the 20.  Even versions of versions are not known and depends on versions people have reserved.  If there are 10 reservations for MP without dynamic brakes in X paint and every other version has less guess which one will be produced.  If only one version is advertised then it is reasonable that only one version will be built.  Usually people who have made specific preferences known will have the opportunity to back out, otherwise you get what is built.

You can still email Scott to reserve one that has been cancelled. There's an old saying "If it weren't for the last moment nothing would ever get done".  They sit for months with no additional reservations and when he announces reservations closing reservations magically show up.  And that certainly has been true here.  Cancelled ones have been revived and ones on the bubble cancelled in the past.  He tried with the GP7/9s to do everything and that did not turn out well, so the builder limited it at 20 versions per run from now on.  

As usual - good info on the behind scenes goings on. Thanks !!!

In my mind - it’s all about the numbers. Those with the most reservations will be produced. 5 of the 25 shown (and I guess the undecorated gets done no matter what) won’t get done (not counting canceled MKT). Late reservations Can restack the final 20. Time for the “fence sitters” to commit.
Perhaps we are close to a final roads to be produced “shuffle” prior to reservations closing.

@TrainBub posted:

As usual - good info on the behind scenes goings on. Thanks !!!

In my mind - it’s all about the numbers. Those with the most reservations will be produced. 5 of the 25 shown (and I guess the undecorated gets done no matter what) won’t get done (not counting canceled MKT). Late reservations Can restack the final 20. Time for the “fence sitters” to commit.
Perhaps we are close to a final roads to be produced “shuffle” prior to reservations closing.

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

@GregM posted:


As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

I also share this opinion. I have no intention to commit to a model that I am not fully interested in. As I don't have much influence on what specific road names or eras would eventually be imported,  I might remain on this fence indefinitely.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

@naveenrajan posted:

I also share this opinion. I have no intention to commit to a model that I am not fully interested in. As I don't have much influence on what specific road names or eras would eventually be imported,  I might remain on this fence indefinitely.

These are just my opinion,

Naveen Rajan

No one asks you to commit to something you’re not interested in.
Anyone wanting to continue to “sit on the fence” is welcome to do so. Your choice.

@GregM posted:

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

Lots of trade offs on how to manage - will it be this model or another different one we reserve - or none. We all have our own way of doing things.

@GregM posted:

There is no certainty that 20 road names will be produced.

Scott  ( @sdmann ) has posted that "I am limited to 20 road name specific detailed / painted models per run" by the factory.

Based on Scott's statement it stands to reason that less than the maximum 20 road names will be produced in the "first" and potentially "only" run.  I say this because the more popular road names will in all probability have multiple 'specific detailed / painted' versions produced requiring elimination of additional road names.   IF and that is a big if in my estimation, only one version per road name is produced then the maximum of 20 road names could be produced.

As for the 'time for "fence sitters" to commit' comment.  I disagree, and here's why.

I may be the only person that feels this way, although I doubt it, but I won't make a reservation (along with the accompanying commitment of funds) that lasts for an indeterminate length of time (this project and thread is several years old) only to eventually find out the engine I want will not be produced.   I have read that when reservations close if my choice won't be made I can opt for one of the engines that will be produced, however, I find this unacceptable for two reasons.

1) If I have no desire for one of the 'will be' produced engines I may have missed out on some other engine because I committed the funds to the reserved engine.   

2) Not following through on a commitment to purchase is not something I want to do.

I absolutely realize my one engine will not make or break this project, however, who knows how many others have the same concerns and that number could make a major difference.

There is no commitment of funds to make a reservation.  Not sure where that information came from.  The commitment is to pay for the model after it is produced and then it will be delivered to you with a very flexible refund policy if you are not satisfied.  If indeed the road name you placed a pre-order on gets cancelled you are only out the disappointment that the road you were looking for didn't get enough orders.

Road names are cancelled prior to start of production so Scott reaches out to customers directly and asks if they would like to order another road name or cancel their pre-order.  You will not miss out on your second choice because your first choice got canceled.

This is how it works for Sunset.  That is why Sunset is like no other manufacturer in this scale or pretty much any other scale.  Name another manufacturer who does this much output where you deal with the owner directly? 

The reality is one engine can and has made a difference between a road name going forward or not going forward.  Lessons learned from past projects will make this even more likely in the future.

As for 2nd runs?  The E7 had 3.5 runs if you include the version made for the "Train of Tomorrow".  F7s had two runs.  There is a second run of F3s being offered with limited road names.  On the other hand, the FL9, FT, FP7, and SD7/9 have never been offered for second runs as much as some of us would like that.  PAs, E5s, 6s, 8s, and 9s have yet to be re-run.  In short, 2nd runs are a big if.  The same is true for a lot of the GGD passenger train sets.  I'd like to see some re-runs that I missed out on.  Not counting on it.

For all of us who support Sunset in our various roles it is our hope is that good quality models get produced for people who truly enjoy quality product that performs well.  It has never been anything less than that. 

@GG1 4877 posted:

There is no commitment of funds to make a reservation.  Not sure where that information came from.  The commitment is to pay for the model after it is produced and then it will be delivered to you with a very flexible refund policy if you are not satisfied.  If indeed the road name you placed a pre-order on gets cancelled you are only out the disappointment that the road you were looking for didn't get enough orders.

Road names are cancelled prior to start of production so Scott reaches out to customers directly and asks if they would like to order another road name or cancel their pre-order.  You will not miss out on your second choice because your first choice got canceled.

This is how it works for Sunset.  That is why Sunset is like no other manufacturer in this scale or pretty much any other scale.  Name another manufacturer who does this much output where you deal with the owner directly?

The reality is one engine can and has made a difference between a road name going forward or not going forward.  Lessons learned from past projects will make this even more likely in the future.

As for 2nd runs?  The E7 had 3.5 runs if you include the version made for the "Train of Tomorrow".  F7s had two runs.  There is a second run of F3s being offered with limited road names.  On the other hand, the FL9, FT, FP7, and SD7/9 have never been offered for second runs as much as some of us would like that.  PAs, E5s, 6s, 8s, and 9s have yet to be re-run.  In short, 2nd runs are a big if.  The same is true for a lot of the GGD passenger train sets.  I'd like to see some re-runs that I missed out on.  Not counting on it.

For all of us who support Sunset in our various roles it is our hope is that good quality models get produced for people who truly enjoy quality product that performs well.  It has never been anything less than that.

Thank you so much Jonathan !!!

@GG1 4877 posted:

There is no commitment of funds to make a reservation.  Not sure where that information came from.  The commitment is to pay for the model after it is produced and then it will be delivered to you with a very flexible refund policy if you are not satisfied.  If indeed the road name you placed a pre-order on gets cancelled you are only out the disappointment that the road you were looking for didn't get enough orders.

Road names are cancelled prior to start of production so Scott reaches out to customers directly and asks if they would like to order another road name or cancel their pre-order.  You will not miss out on your second choice because your first choice got canceled.

This is how it works for Sunset.  That is why Sunset is like no other manufacturer in this scale or pretty much any other scale.  Name another manufacturer who does this much output where you deal with the owner directly?

The reality is one engine can and has made a difference between a road name going forward or not going forward.  Lessons learned from past projects will make this even more likely in the future.

As for 2nd runs?  The E7 had 3.5 runs if you include the version made for the "Train of Tomorrow".  F7s had two runs.  There is a second run of F3s being offered with limited road names.  On the other hand, the FL9, FT, FP7, and SD7/9 have never been offered for second runs as much as some of us would like that.  PAs, E5s, 6s, 8s, and 9s have yet to be re-run.  In short, 2nd runs are a big if.  The same is true for a lot of the GGD passenger train sets.  I'd like to see some re-runs that I missed out on.  Not counting on it.

For all of us who support Sunset in our various roles it is our hope is that good quality models get produced for people who truly enjoy quality product that performs well.  It has never been anything less than that.

At this point in my life I don’t spend money I don’t already have on any of my hobby purchases, therefore I would make a personal commitment to keep the money available in my train purchase fund to pay for the reserved engine.  So, if the reserved engine is not produced I may have missed out on an opportunity to purchase something else because I would not spend any of the committed money to make that other purchase.  

Thanks for the nudge TrainBub!  I was "on the fence" about reserving more MoPac SD40-2s, but no longer - email sent yesterday.  I've been collecting specific items over the years for an eventual 2R layout for retirement.  This is likely the best chance to get high quality 2R models in both my favorite road and loco that may not come around when I'm laying track 10 years from now.   

Time for me to be a squeaky wheel.  I posted pics of my N-scale units on the 2R thread, so apologies for reposting here.  I figured I'd keep up the momentum with MP modelers and get these pics in front of Jonathon.  I originally told Sunset I'd take late version with dynamic brakes thinking they may have a higher chance of getting produced, but MP had many more SD40-2s that were non-DB.  Here are my preferred versions in order:

#1:  Late version, non-DB, brake wheel, corrugated radiator grilles, bell at rear of long hood.

MP_3306

#2:  Late version, w/DB, brake wheel, corrugated radiator grilles, bell at rear of long hood (#6000-6019 had lights on the short hood like DRGW).

MP_6045

#3:  Early version, non-DB (either double eagle like 3092 or sawblade logo on cab), ratchet brake, chicken wire grilles, bell more forward on long hood).

MP_3092

Not to assume that MoPac will make the cut, but it could easily be reversed for me if SLSF or MKT were getting produced instead.  I like Frisco and MKT and love their paint schemes, but I can't justify the expense for secondary roads on my future layout.  If MP was cancelled I'd likely pass on a second choice. 

While each modeler's situation is different, I think Sunset's reservation policy is more than fair.  I understand the point of having funds earmarked for a model that may get cancelled, but that's better than trying to get your cancelled reservation deposit refunded that has been tied up for months in someone else's bank account.

~Tim

Attachments

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  • MP_6045
  • MP_3092
  • MP_3092
@Tim Mc posted:

Thanks for the nudge TrainBub!  I was "on the fence" about reserving more MoPac SD40-2s, but no longer - email sent yesterday.  I've been collecting specific items over the years for an eventual 2R layout for retirement.  This is likely the best chance to get high quality 2R models in both my favorite road and loco that may not come around when I'm laying track 10 years from now.   

Time for me to be a squeaky wheel.  I posted pics of my N-scale units on the 2R thread, so apologies for reposting here.  I figured I'd keep up the momentum with MP modelers and get these pics in front of Jonathon.  I originally told Sunset I'd take late version with dynamic brakes thinking they may have a higher chance of getting produced, but MP had many more SD40-2s that were non-DB.  Here are my preferred versions in order:

#1:  Late version, non-DB, brake wheel, corrugated radiator grilles, bell at rear of long hood.

MP_3306

#2:  Late version, w/DB, brake wheel, corrugated radiator grilles, bell at rear of long hood (#6000-6019 had lights on the short hood like DRGW).

MP_6045

#3:  Early version, non-DB (either double eagle like 3092 or sawblade logo on cab), ratchet brake, chicken wire grilles, bell more forward on long hood).

MP_3092

Not to assume that MoPac will make the cut, but it could easily be reversed for me if SLSF or MKT were getting produced instead.  I like Frisco and MKT and love their paint schemes, but I can't justify the expense for secondary roads on my future layout.  If MP was cancelled I'd likely pass on a second choice.

While each modeler's situation is different, I think Sunset's reservation policy is more than fair.  I understand the point of having funds earmarked for a model that may get cancelled, but that's better than trying to get your cancelled reservation deposit refunded that has been tied up for months in someone else's bank account.

~Tim

Thanks for helping with a MP reservation for this model. It’s tough to get a MP model to fly - especially one in Jenks Blue. Any of the examples you've show are Fine by me.  I think if the MP model is in the run, we will get one version.  
The fact that it’s taken a Long Time to now get to perhaps the threshold of production is a good indication that this run will be one and done. I look forward to seeing this model Finally go into production !!!!!
Cheers !!!

@GregM posted:

At this point in my life I don’t spend money I don’t already have on any of my hobby purchases, therefore I would make a personal commitment to keep the money available in my train purchase fund to pay for the reserved engine.  So, if the reserved engine is not produced I may have missed out on an opportunity to purchase something else because I would not spend any of the committed money to make that other purchase.  

How you choose to make purchases is of course entirely your choice.  I was simply explaining how Sunset's reservation process works.   

Based on Richard's firm order for Feromex SD40-2, I removed NdeM, which had no reservations to date and replaced it with Feromex.

Some other roads will also be dropped due to too few reservations at this time and we will contact each customer to offer substitutions or just placing their reservations in a 2nd category  SD40-2b - which we can access for a possible second run. But I have to tell you, this usually doesn't pan out and we never seem get enough interest for these lightly reserved roads. The numbers tell the story.

Overall the SD40-2 / SD-40T-2 has enough orders to move forward (350) and we are beginning work on the matrix of details for each road name.

The following projects are moving forward at this time:

F3-Run #2 - In Production arriving July

Krauss Maffei - In production Arriving Sept

C&O Hudson - In production Arriving Sept

Amfleet / Viewliners - In production Arriving  July

SP Daylight - Will be next in line after Amfleet/Viewliners - finishing in the fall.

120 Ton VGN Gondola's we hope to deliver by end of the year.

Hiawatha Run #2 - End of the Year

C&O Chessie Cars - Design is done, Production in early 2022.

1948 20th Century Ltd - Design is done, End of the year / Early Next year

EAB/E1AB - Design is done, Tooling begins - End of the year / Early Next year

SD40-2 - Design has yet to begin so production will be late this year, early next year.

Milwaukee Road EP-3: Design order has been made, 2022 production

B&O Capitol Ltd. 2022

1948 Broadway Ltd 2022

T&P / MOPAC Eagle Cars 2022 Late

Southern Crescent Cars 2023

FA/FB: 2022

NYC R2: 2022

NYC H10 Mikado: 2022

Dash-9: 2023

SP MM-3 Steam will be produced in 2022. Design has been ordered.

It's been suggested to offer the Mopac E6 again, so customers can order confidently both the engine and the Eagle cars. We're going to offer this as an E5/E6 Rerun for 2022-2023. Then we will schedule the T&P / Mopac Cars.

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other. they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

We are going to double down on our detail confirmations on these projects so we can avoid any mistakes. This slows things down a bit but should result in less errors in detail, painting and lettering. I am committed to improving, always.

I hope you all are enjoying your summer. It's so nice to get out and do normal things once again.

Keep well.

@sdmann posted:

Based on Richard's firm order for Feromex SD40-2, I removed NdeM, which had no reservations to date and replaced it with Feromex.

Some other roads will also be dropped due to too few reservations at this time and we will contact each customer to offer substitutions or just placing their reservations in a 2nd category  SD40-2b - which we can access for a possible second run. But I have to tell you, this usually doesn't pan out and we never seem get enough interest for these lightly reserved roads. The numbers tell the story.

Overall the SD40-2 / SD-40T-2 has enough orders to move forward (350) and we are beginning work on the matrix of details for each road name.

The following projects are moving forward at this time:

F3-Run #2 - In Production arriving July

Krauss Maffei - In production Arriving Sept

C&O Hudson - In production Arriving Sept

Amfleet / Viewliners - In production Arriving  July

SP Daylight - Will be next in line after Amfleet/Viewliners - finishing in the fall.

120 Ton VGN Gondola's we hope to deliver by end of the year.

Hiawatha Run #2 - End of the Year

C&O Chessie Cars - Design is done, Production in early 2022.

1948 20th Century Ltd - Design is done, End of the year / Early Next year

EAB/E1AB - Design is done, Tooling begins - End of the year / Early Next year

SD40-2 - Design has yet to begin so production will be late this year, early next year.

Milwaukee Road EP-3: Design order has been made, 2022 production

B&O Capitol Ltd. 2022

1948 Broadway Ltd 2022

T&P / MOPAC Eagle Cars 2022 Late

Southern Crescent Cars 2023

FA/FB: 2022

NYC R2: 2022

NYC H10 Mikado: 2022

Dash-9: 2023

SP MM-3 Steam will be produced in 2022. Design has been ordered.

It's been suggested to offer the Mopac E6 again, so customers can order confidently both the engine and the Eagle cars. We're going to offer this as an E5/E6 Rerun for 2022-2023. Then we will schedule the T&P / Mopac Cars.

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other. they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

We are going to double down on our detail confirmations on these projects so we can avoid any mistakes. This slows things down a bit but should result in less errors in detail, painting and lettering. I am committed to improving, always.

I hope you all are enjoying your summer. It's so nice to get out and do normal things once again.

Keep well.

Excellent update !!! 👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
This scheduling  note helps me plan my train $ budget - I’m sure others too.
Cheers !!!

So, now you know where the bubble is.  I've guaranteed that Ferromex will be 1 of the 20.  Also BN (not BNSF) and Santa Fe (again, not BNSF) together have between 75 and 100 reservations. So that leaves 17 variations.

2nd GP9s?  At least 3 years in the future.  Limited to 20 variations the 1st run would not have happened so you can go from there.

I was wondering about the delivery of the Amfleets and Viewliners, so as always thank you very much Scott. Your frequent communication with us makes me even more excited to get those cars. It makes me a strong believer in the quality of your products, as well as your customer service.

In addition to that, it is very good to hear that you and your team are thinking about doing some of Amtrak's original locomotives they ordered since its formation. I'm very surprised that to this day very little was done for these locomotives in 3-rail. I'm sure MTH's FP-45 was reasonable for it's time, but they never did anything to update it visually. And then of course the Williams version, which I love very much, is semi-scale and really fits best with other "traditionally sized" trains. So thank you very much for even considering these locomotives. I can only pray at this point that they do come into fruition.

@GG1 4877 posted:

Thanks to your guarantee on Ferromex Richard, I'm changing my reservation.  That is a great paint scheme.

Agreed that GP7/9s may be a while off if at all.

Thanks Jonathan!  3-rail I assume?  If anyone is thinking about one in 3-rail you will need to reserve because I'm only interested in 2-rail.  Only reservations will cause 3-rail Ferromex to happen.

Thank you for the update Scott! That helps all of us know when to expect these runs and should help out with orders. I know it helps me to space out the sets.

I will also add a shameless plug for the Illinois Central Death Star paint scheme. I currently have 4 on order if anyone is on the fence or interested.

@rdunniii posted:

Thanks Jonathan!  3-rail I assume?  If anyone is thinking about one in 3-rail you will need to reserve because I'm only interested in 2-rail.  Only reservations will cause 3-rail Ferromex to happen.

You know me too well Richard.  3 rail if it's not CNJ or PRR.   All my GP7s are 2R.  I'm thinking two in Ferromex to go with the ATSF one I already had and dumping the 2R Conrail.  It was WAY out of era for my 2R modeling.  Only by 20 years, but still.   

Last edited by GG1 4877
@rdunniii posted:

So, now you know where the bubble is.  I've guaranteed that Ferromex will be 1 of the 20.  Also BN (not BNSF) and Santa Fe (again, not BNSF) together have between 75 and 100 reservations. So that leaves 17 variations.

2nd GP9s?  At least 3 years in the future.  Limited to 20 variations the 1st run would not have happened so you can go from there.

Well, this a nice start to the final line-up. BN and Santa Fe big numbers. Pretty predictable. Does “Not BNSF” mean it’s dropped ? Not including SF Kodachrome with SF imply SF-K won’t fly ?  Ferromex. Wow !!! That’s an interesting trump card and replacing NDM. So be it. Numbers of Reservations RULE !!!!!  
That leaves the rest of us waiting on a final line-up - I hope not too long. Canceled road name reservations can be moved in the SD40-2 offering, perhaps boosting another road and making a difference .... OR can be used on another project that also could use some more reservations !!!! I hope Scott can move on this soon and firm up the SD40-2 line up.

GP7-9 run 2 ?   Pass.
I look forward to eventually seeing the Alco FAs done and am Excited to see Scott say the E5,6 Will See a Run 2 !!!!!!

Cheers !!!!!! 😜

Last edited by TrainBub
@TrainBub posted:

Well, this a nice start to the final line-up. BN and Santa Fe big numbers. Pretty predictable. Does “Not BNSF” mean it’s dropped ? Not including SF Kodachrome with SF imply SF-K won’t fly ?  Ferromex. Wow !!! That’s an interesting trump card and replacing NDM. So be it. Numbers of Reservations RULE !!!!!  

...

Cheers !!!!!! 😜

No clue what BNSF numbers are.  I asked what the two biggest were.  Between the 500 different paint varieties for BNSF I shall keep my distance.  It will be the one in the picture as far as I know but there will be people who question that decision vociferously.

@TrainBub posted:

Well, this a nice start to the final line-up. BN and Santa Fe big numbers. Pretty predictable. Does “Not BNSF” mean it’s dropped ? Not including SF Kodachrome with SF imply SF-K won’t fly ?  Ferromex. Wow !!! That’s an interesting trump card and replacing NDM. So be it. Numbers of Reservations RULE !!!!!  
That leaves the rest of us waiting on a final line-up - I hope not too long. Canceled road name reservations can be moved in the SD40-2 offering, perhaps boosting another road and making a difference .... OR can be used on another project that also could use some more reservations !!!! I hope Scott can move on this soon and firm up the SD40-2 line up.

GP7-9 run 2 ?   Pass.
I look forward to eventually seeing the Alco FAs done and am Excited to see Scott say the E5,6 Will See a Run 2 !!!!!!

Cheers !!!!!! 😜

I’ll be darned. Scott’s posted “standby reservations accepted for possible second run” for GPs. So.... MP fans and I appeal to Jenks blue MP SD40-2 reservations. The MP GP in Jenks did not get enough reservations to get done. Here’s a possible 2nd chance to get the later paint MP GP. It’d be great to lash up with the SD40-2. Give it a look.  The GP models are Superb !!  Cheers 😜

If MP SD40-2 makes the final 20, numbering becomes important relative to which model is produced - with or without dynamic brakes. Each had specific numbers. The dynamic brake models (at least initially) were used for coal service and were labeled SD40-2c. They ventured deep into Colorado and I believe into Wyoming (Powder River Basin) for coal drags.

Last edited by TrainBub

Hey TrainBub,

I gave Scott info on the Mopac SD40-2c units assuming they would prefer to make later versions with dynamic brakes as most roads had DB.  He passed the info on to Jonathan.  I'd be OK with non-DB as well, but prefer the late/modern version on either DB or non-DB.  If I've missed anything, please let me know.  Here's what I provided, much is courtesy of Kevin Eudaly's Missouri Pacific Diesel Power:

All Mo-Pac SD40-2s with dynamic brakes (#6000-6073) were delivered in the Jenks (dark cerulean) blue late scheme with the screaming eagle over sawblade logo on the cab, wider 5" Scotchlite striping & chevrons, large cab numbers on the long hood, and corrugated radiator grilles (no chicken wire grilles).  They all had bells mounted high on the long hood before the left-hand radiator grille.

20 DB units made in 1976 (#3216-3235, renumbered in May, 1978 to #6000-6019) had both standard cab lights between the number boards and lights on the short hood (like DRGW SD40T-2s).  They also had rotary beacons on the cab roof and early EMD-style squared numbers on the number boards.

54 DB units made in 1979-80 (MP #6020-6073) only had standard cab lights between the number boards.  They did not have lights on the short hood or rotary beacons on the cab.  They used the later rounded EMD font on the
number boards.  This group matches the photo on Sunset's webpage.
#6071 was the last surviving blue SD40-2.  - That might be a cool one to make.
The latest non-DB Mopac SD40-2s were:
50 units, Aug-Sep 1978:  3216:2-3235:2 (the first 20 DB units had these numbers originally and were renumbered 6000-6019) and MP 3236-3265.
36 units, May-July 1979:  MP 3266-3301
10 units, Dec 1979, MP 3302-3311
10 units, April 1980, MP 3312-3321

BTW, sorry I can't reserve any Sunset GP7s or GP9s in Jenks Blue.  In my RR universe they were already traded in on GP15-1s.  I've already got four painted and ready for some local road-switching work on the future layout.  For now two baby tunnel motors are pulling a local around my office loop.  FYI, that's an original 3M Scotchlite Mopac cab logo in the pic. 

IMG_1480

Attachments

Images (1)
  • IMG_1480
Last edited by Tim Mc
@Tim Mc posted:

Hey TrainBub,

I gave Scott info on the Mopac SD40-2c units assuming they would prefer to make later versions with dynamic brakes as most roads had DB.  He passed the info on to Jonathan.  I'd be OK with non-DB as well, but prefer the late/modern version on either DB or non-DB.  If I've missed anything, please let me know.  Here's what I provided, much is courtesy of Kevin Eudaly's Missouri Pacific Diesel Power:

All Mo-Pac SD40-2s with dynamic brakes (#6000-6073) were delivered in the Jenks (dark cerulean) blue late scheme with the screaming eagle over sawblade logo on the cab, wider 5" Scotchlite striping & chevrons, large cab numbers on the long hood, and corrugated radiator grilles (no chicken wire grilles).  They all had bells mounted high on the long hood before the left-hand radiator grille.

20 DB units made in 1976 (#3216-3235, renumbered in May, 1978 to #6000-6019) had both standard cab lights between the number boards and lights on the short hood (like DRGW SD40T-2s).  They also had rotary beacons on the cab roof and early EMD-style squared numbers on the number boards.

54 DB units made in 1979-80 (MP #6020-6073) only had standard cab lights between the number boards.  They did not have lights on the short hood or rotary beacons on the cab.  They used the later rounded EMD font on the
number boards.  This group matches the photo on Sunset's webpage.
#6071 was the last surviving blue SD40-2.  - That might be a cool one to make.
The latest non-DB Mopac SD40-2s were:
50 units, Aug-Sep 1978:  3216:2-3235:2 (the first 20 DB units had these numbers originally and were renumbered 6000-6019) and MP 3236-3265.
36 units, May-July 1979:  MP 3266-3301
10 units, Dec 1979, MP 3302-3311
10 units, April 1980, MP 3312-3321

BTW, sorry I can't reserve any Sunset GP7s or GP9s in Jenks Blue.  In my RR universe they were already traded in on GP15-1s.  I've already got four painted and ready for some local road-switching work on the future layout.  For now two baby tunnel motors are pulling a local around my office loop.  FYI, that's an original 3M Scotchlite Mopac cab logo in the pic. 

IMG_1480

I’ll be happy with ANY MP SD40-2 Scott produces !!!!! I appreciate your diligence in passing in good info. The EuDaly reference is great info source for Jonathan.
Cheers !!!!

Last edited by TrainBub
Originally posted by sdmann...

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming
months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance
to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other.
they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

YEAH BABY! SDP40F's!

Originally posted by sdmann...

Richard, Bradley and I have been working on the SDP40F, FP45 and F45 project outline. We will announce these in the coming
months and see where they take us. We will release these engines one at a time, so as to give our customers the chance
to order all of them in succession and it also helps us maximize sales so we or you don't have to drop one for the other.
they will not be cheap as they are short runs and all new tools.

YEAH BABY! SDP40F's!

You need to start a new thread SDP40F, FP45, F45. It will be difficult to build some excitement for this Buried in the SD40-2 thread.

Hi Folks,

Happy 4th of July.

Wanted to let you know Jonathan and I are now working on the design matrix which leads to design and tooling for our SD40-2 , SD40T-2 project.

I have removed several road names from the list due to lack of orders. We are already beyond our 20 road name production so we can't add any further roads at this time.  The roads that didn't make it are IC (Death Star), Frisco and SOO.

We changed the engine we are making for N&W to the short / high hood, black scheme. I hope all that reserved the Red N&W will approve of the change.

I think we will see these early to mid 2022.  Reservations will close in late 2021.

Keep well and happy Model Railroading.

@vash44 posted:

Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.

How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!

Well it’s good that Scott didn’t keep people with Frisco, IC, and Soo reservations dangling till the absolute end before closing reservations. It actually allows us to see if we can reallocate our reservation “$” to something else.

@vash44 posted:

Sad news indeed. Was hoping to see the IC across the finish line.

How many units would it take to be made? Hopeful for another run one day and can campaign for it then. I do appreciate the consideration for it to be made Scott!!!

While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested.  Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names. 

IC is a tough one.  They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total.  I personally found that surprising during research of this unit.  The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version?  That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders. 

While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.

Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced.  Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.

I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex.  Go figure.

@GG1 4877 posted:


While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.



Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks.  The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.

If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection.  Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster.html#SD40-2

Last edited by rplst8
@GG1 4877 posted:

While 2nd runs are never guaranteed, it has been fairly typical these days that once people see the quality of the first run a 2nd is requested.  Since the tooling is done, it is possible to do 2nd runs should enough people agree on road names.

IC is a tough one.  They were an early purchaser of the SD40-2 in 1975, but only purchased 4 units total.  I personally found that surprising during research of this unit.  The question that hasn't been answered yet and will become evident within the next 24 hours is how many total SD40-2s from this run of locomotives share the same phasing as the IC version?  That may factor into it coming back to life if it can get up to at least 20 orders.

While SD40-2 phasing variations in many cases are minor (aside from the long short hoods found on ATSF and SP or the high short hood on NW, SOU, & NS), there are a lot of spec changes over the 12+ years this locomotive was in the EMD catalog.  I'm in the process of rationalizing all of that now to create a factory friendly project where there are the smallest amount of tooling changes while also being prototypically authentic to each road.  Not an easy task as I'm quickly learning.

Lesson learned from the GP7/9 project is to select road numbers related to specific phases of production first so there is an actual photo for each unit that will be produced.  Add to that modifications made from successor roads like BNSF, UP, and others and tracing road numbers back to the as-built road number and now we have a very fun puzzle to resolve.

I'm excited for the high hood NW version even if I am changing my order over to Feromex.  Go figure.

You Always provide great info. Thanks !!!  Ferromex ?  A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳    
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?    
Cheers 🙂

@sdmann posted:

Hi Folks,

Happy 4th of July.

Wanted to let you know Jonathan and I are now working on the design matrix which leads to design and tooling for our SD40-2 , SD40T-2 project.

I have removed several road names from the list due to lack of orders. We are already beyond our 20 road name production so we can't add any further roads at this time.  The roads that didn't make it are IC (Death Star), Frisco and SOO.

We changed the engine we are making for N&W to the short / high hood, black scheme. I hope all that reserved the Red N&W will approve of the change.

I think we will see these early to mid 2022.  Reservations will close in late 2021.

Keep well and happy Model Railroading.

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

@TrainBub posted:

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

You have no idea.  I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive.  He understands  stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive.  He already knows I need some leftover F3s.  In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff.  Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.  

And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something.  The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics.  And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.

@rdunniii posted:

You have no idea.  I reserve little from Scott because I know there will be people who don't actually pay for them when they arrive.  He understands  stuff happens between when you reserve and when they arrive.  He already knows I need some leftover F3s.  In the case of the Ferromex I did reserve I will keep one of each number and the rest will be used for chassis, for SD38-2s and other stuff.  Maybe even a swap for some other leftovers.  

And then there are the people who will return them, supposedly in perfect condition but it is obvious they did something.  The most obvious is when they swap out the electronics.  And yes, they do go on Scott's special bad boy list.

Wow you do some ambitious, serious vacuuming after “delivery”. I did 3 GPs and before all is said and done I’ll probably do 3 SD40-2s.
I'm stunned with people doing something - like swapping electronics !!!!! Holy cow - how sleazy - pathetic !!!!!

@rplst8 posted:

Don’t forget Conrail’s version with Flexcoil C trucks.  The whole reason for the lengthening of the SD40 frame was to accommodate the HT-C trucks, which made the CR variant look a little silly. Maybe not as silly as the 3000 gallon fuel tank models.

If anyone is interested in some of the many variations there is a great page that has details of the WLE SD40-2s, of which they’ve got a nice collection.  Some however, are reman’d SD40s like the three ex-PRR units they have.

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster.html#SD40-2

Another reason for the frame length was to standardize the frame.  The SD38-2, SD40-2, and SD45-2 share the same frame.  Conrail elected to go with the older Flexcoil trucks due to their experience of Amtrak's SDP40Fs HT-C trucks on Conrail track which was substandard at the time.   

W&LE units are still being researched.  Most of the others have assigned phases and number ranges right now pending approval of the boss man Scott.

@TrainBub posted:

You Always provide great info. Thanks !!!  Ferromex ?  A far piece away from CNJ !!!😳😳😳    
Do you also do the passenger car research /detail work ?    
Cheers 🙂

I model western roads in 3 rail as my club is 3 rail and western based.  CNJ is for the serious modeler in me and is always in 2 rail.  Makes complete sense to me!!

@TrainBub posted:

It would be interesting to see reservation numbers for those roads that were dropped. I was in for 2 MP and 1 Frisco - all the $ I could do at once and couldn’t do a second Frisco. It seems earlier there was support for Frisco (and Soo). Where did those people go ???  Perhaps it’s just “talks cheap”.  It’s different when you have to Really put your $ in. Well, I hope when we get to finally doing the FA diesels, the Frisco can get enough reservations to be done.

Talk is cheap.  How many threads do we read that someone says, "I'll buy X number of units in Y road name if Z manufacturer makes it."  Uh-huh.  The answer to your question is less than 5 of each of these road names.

There are several on this forum who enjoy opining on everything but when it comes down to a placing a reservation find the smallest reasons not to reserve as in they never intended reserving one in the first place.

Then again there are others who are willing to place a personal guarantee on the run to get their road name made. 

Like life, we have all kinds on this forum.  Nothing wrong with any of it.

GG-1, In my world, train related internet sales completion actually have a higher closing ratio than in my professional world.  Maybe even double that of my day to day business.  Except at train shows, there sales may be 1 out of 6 conversations become sales.

There is a sort of love affair RR guys have for trains and sometimes it seems they just like to imagine ordering or talking about one.  Like dancing with debt.

For the life of me I can not imagine how Scott can make these high dollar multi unit overseas commitments based on the general RR public.

I have learned that running a model train business is not for the faint of heart.  My wife is in sales, but sells products that are actually needed as opposed to just wanted.  The stuff Scott shares with me would make most business minded people run for the hills, yet he still enjoys this work.  I have to give him all the credit in the world for 1) putting up with a global economy in a niche market, 2) fickle buyers who expect perfection, 3) consultants (such as myself) who sometimes make mistakes that exacerbates number 2, and 4) taking so much risk with no guarantee of reward.  I do hope Scott writes a book someday about his adventures in model railroading from a manufacturer's perspective.  There are certainly some wonderful and also scary tales to tell about the nature of this business!

@GG1 4877 posted:

I have learned that running a model train business is not for the faint of heart.  My wife is in sales, but sells products that are actually needed as opposed to just wanted.  The stuff Scott shares with me would make most business minded people run for the hills, yet he still enjoys this work.  I have to give him all the credit in the world for 1) putting up with a global economy in a niche market, 2) fickle buyers who expect perfection, 3) consultants (such as myself) who sometimes make mistakes that exacerbates number 2, and 4) taking so much risk with no guarantee of reward.  I do hope Scott writes a book someday about his adventures in model railroading from a manufacturer's perspective.  There are certainly some wonderful and also scary tales to tell about the nature of this business!

I’d be a buyer of such a book. I think it would be fascinating. Even tidbits you share are interesting as you also give insight into the business. Perhaps you should contribute to it too. 😬

Actually, I like it, but it would be better if an equal "gap" were on the aft end also. That would make it a lot easier to model one of those that emigrated to South America (Brazil; Estrada de Ferro Vitória a Minas; EFVM) and converted to B-B + B-B meter gauge units.

@rplst8 posted:

Just please, no “gap-toothed” short fuel tank models…

lechh..

Last edited by PRRMP54
@Tim Mc posted:

I'm looking forward to seeing the phases and numbers for the Mopac SD40-2s!

Good to see you are still in the MP hunt Tim.  I don’t expect the phases will be announced - but you might eventually find out via a note to Scott or Jonathan.  I’ll be very happy with my two - with whatever phase shows up.  Scott will typically will due as many as four numbers if there is an order for four units. Beyond that I don’t know. I’ll probably add a DRG for a coal drag too.

I can see the image as well on my iPhone, but not on my desktop (Google Chrome).

Cool, I have 4 W&LE on order thru Caboose Stop Hobbies. I don't know why I didn't just order them directly from Scott.

Jonathan, if you need more information on these units I would be glad to help. I floated you an email yesterday about the lineage of the 6 81" nose SD40-2's 3rd Rail will be considering for the W&LE.

Rob

Units #6353 and #6354 are interesting.  Former Kansas City Southern units that were used in the movie Unstoppable.  They also seem to have some sort of upgrade done to the cab windows to widen them to four panes.  Looks nice. 

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster/WE6354.html

http://www.nsdash9.com/WEroster/WE6353.html

All of the former MoPac units are great too.  From what I can tell they have eight of those currently numbered: 7002, 7010, 7011, 7013, 7016, 7020, 7021, and 7022.

Project update.  Research is going really well on this project and I want to thank all those who have taken the time to send me information to help move this project forward. 

This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past.  We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers.  That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully. 

Here is just a teaser:

MOPAC:  Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme

W&LE:  Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016

Southern:  4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.

Conrail:  Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.

Milwaukee Road:  Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.

This list will grow as the picture becomes clearer, but at least a start. 

Enjoy your weekend and play with your trains!

@GG1 4877 posted:

Project update.  Research is going really well on this project and I want to thank all those who have taken the time to send me information to help move this project forward.

This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past.  We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers.  That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully.

Here is just a teaser:

MOPAC:  Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme

W&LE:  Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016

Southern:  4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.

Conrail:  Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.

Milwaukee Road:  Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.

This list will grow as the picture becomes clearer, but at least a start.

Enjoy your weekend and play with your trains!

Oh I DO LOVE THE FIRST TEASER !!! 😜😜  MOPAC to be done - is looking “official” !!!  
EEE- HAAA !!!! Made my day !!!!  
🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂

Last edited by TrainBub
@GG1 4877 posted:

This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past.  We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers.  That leaves some time for those of you on the fence to get your orders in and those who have already ordered the confidence that this project is moving forward successfully.



I think this is an excellent idea.  Kudos to Scott and you for making this move.

I just added one of each Conrail and Conrail Quality liveries in 3-rail to my order of two WLE units.

These will likely be the most accurate models of an SD40-2 ever made in 3-rail, and maybe even all of O-scale.  Having representations of them with both Flexcoil and HT-C trucks will be cool.  Part of me wants to also get a tunnel motor and snoot nose version, but I think that’s to much for my wallet in one order and I’m not even sure a snoot is in the works.

In the GP7/9 thread the question of wheel size in the HT-C trucks came up.

Two seemingly reliable sources say they have 42 inch diameter wheels, and then @catnap found another source that said they were 40 inch.  FWIW the Wikipedia page says that they are 40 inch as well, but there doesn’t seem to be a citation for that.  

Sources that say 42 inch:
https://utahrails.net/loconote...-RT-3_March-1972.pdf
https://heritagerailalliance.w...S-AXLES-1987-OCT.PDF

Source that says 40 inch:
http://tcrc320.org/MEMBERS/SD40-2_Operator_Manual.pdf

I’m curious what others think on this question.  Although I am NOT going to quibble over two scale inches in a 1:48 model that rides on 1:43.5 tracks.

@TrainBub posted:

Oh I DO LOVE THE FIRST TEASER !!! 😜😜  MOPAC to be done - is looking “official” !!!  
EEE- HAAA !!!! Made my day !!!!  
🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂😬🙂

Oh yeah TrainBub!  I'm very excited for these.  For anyone curious about Mopac's fleet, MP had (306) SD40-2s in total!  (74) SD40-2s made in 1973-74 were in the early sawblade scheme.  (232) Mopac SD40-2s made between 1975 and 1980 were delivered in the late scheme.

While I would have been OK with either the early non-DB, or late DB models (74), the non-DB SD40-2s being produced in the as-delivered late scheme are the most typical of Mopac's fleet (158 of 306, or slightly more than half of all MP SD40-2s).

The road numbers are survivors that lasted into the UP merger period in Jenks Blue and were found all over the system.  According to Kevin EuDaly's book Missouri Pacific Diesel Power, these four were not repainted into the UP "canary" or "mop-up" scheme.

Pics of 3217 (Feb 85) and 3264 (Dec 85) can be found at the Screaming Eagle site:

http://trainweb.org/screaminge...oco_2gen_sd40-2.html

Pics of 3229 (May 89), 3255 (Jul 85) can be found here:

http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/mp/mp-300.html

Time to get the layout planned.  The office loop won't do these justice.

Thanks Jonathan and Scott!

~Tim

The second order of Conrail units 6441-6524 had no plows.  Since you have decided to do Conrail Quality, you have to be careful picking the correct road numbers as these had many slight variations.  3 different size Conrail Quality logos were used.  Some got the Conrail Quality on the front nose but not the rear.   Some got it on the rear and not on the nose.  Early units and the Q towards the front.  Since these will be later Conrail Quality Units can ERR enable working ditch lights?   If you are not doing ditch lights then I suggest doing regular Conrail Paint. 

The most attractive units were the ones with Conrail Quality on the nose, no rear painted Quality, Side panel Q towards the rear under the back fans rails going forward, white number boards, white front rear and side sills, top of the nose painted black (this was a mix of black and anti-skid sand but black will do).

- Crank

I was curious what road numbers from the range provided might be prototypical for the Conrail Quality SD40-2 engines. A little research located these pictures of potential numbers on the Conrail Photo Archive.

Conrail 6442 10/15/98 Hagerstown, MD

Conrail 6449 02/18/96 Altoona, PA  (On flatcar after wreck)

Conrail 6451 4-21-94 Altoona, PA  (Nose only)

Conrail 6451 02/14/98 Bear, DE

Conrail 6457 06/15/96 Gallitzin, PA  (Rear "Conrail Quality")

Conrail 6457 02/14/98 Wilmington DE  (Nose "Conrail Quality")

Conrail 6476 12/31/95 Edgemoor, DE  (Only CONRAIL on nose)



There are probably other numbers that can be used, only included two even and three odd numbered engines.

If you want to know where the cutoff line between go and no go that I had to reserve for Ferromex is it is Conrail.  So there is a REAL good chance,especially with the addition of the flexicoil trucks, that here will be only one physical version. Now Jonathan has to find 4 numbers where they all matched.  If you want more detail differences there needs to be more reservations for Conrail, like double digit more.

Even though the second order of Conrail SD40-2s were not delivered with plows, almost all of them received plows.  Add in the fact that the Q in quality is on different sides of "CONRAIL" on the right side of the locomotive depending on road number and the three different sizes of graphics, it is quite a challenge.  Makes it very interesting to track down.

The photo shown for the past 6 months of the CN SD40-2 was pf a standard cab model built for the CN then sold to the KCS then sold to the GTW and repainted in the 1990's CN scheme.

What road numbers and schemes will be on the CN SD40-2W?

Andrew

Haven't completely gotten to CN yet, but right now playing around with the units in the 5241-5363 series and the as delivered paint scheme.  Scott has committed to do the wide cab so the web site will be updated accordingly.

@GregM posted:

I was curious what road numbers from the range provided might be prototypical for the Conrail Quality SD40-2 engines. A little research located these pictures of potential numbers on the Conrail Photo Archive.

Conrail 6442 10/15/98 Hagerstown, MD

Conrail 6449 02/18/96 Altoona, PA  (On flatcar after wreck)

Conrail 6451 4-21-94 Altoona, PA  (Nose only)

Conrail 6451 02/14/98 Bear, DE

Conrail 6457 06/15/96 Gallitzin, PA  (Rear "Conrail Quality")

Conrail 6457 02/14/98 Wilmington DE  (Nose "Conrail Quality")

Conrail 6476 12/31/95 Edgemoor, DE  (Only CONRAIL on nose)



There are probably other numbers that can be used, only included two even and three odd numbered engines.

Man I miss hearing those 645s coming up Cresson mountain through the Jewel of the Mainline at my grandmother’s house.  

The fun starts around the 1:54 mark…

@rplst8 posted:

8836 is ex-Conrail.

Edit: actually, they all are.

All of the ex Conrail units either went to CSX or NS and were painted appropriately by their new owners.  Not a single person has asked about getting them in their new owners livery.

If you want to see the difference between the HTC and Flexicoil trucks in action there is a video on Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07vc1q73i-c] showing the differences in slippage.  Both are SD40-2s and one is an ex Conrail unit.  Wow!

@rdunniii posted:

All of the ex Conrail units either went to CSX or NS and were painted appropriately by their new owners.  Not a single person has asked about getting them in their new owners livery.

I don’t understand.  I wasn’t suggesting they be delivered in their new owners livery.  Johnathan asked if anyone could unravel that teaser he gave.

@rdunniii posted:

All of the ex Conrail units either went to CSX or NS and were painted appropriately by their new owners.  Not a single person has asked about getting them in their new owners livery.

If you want to see the difference between the HTC and Flexicoil trucks in action there is a video on Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07vc1q73i-c] showing the differences in slippage.  Both are SD40-2s and one is an ex Conrail unit.  Wow!

Wow, that was quite a show! Thanks for posting.

@EMD posted:

rdunniii, I guess nobody wants ex-Cons

That wheel slippage video has been posted on here before

I believe it was a malfunctioning traction motor?

Maybe, but...all 6 motors are slipping.  It is the difference between no traction control on the flexicoils and tractions control in the High Traction trucks.  Everything else on the two units is the same.

@rdunniii posted:

All of the ex Conrail units either went to CSX or NS and were painted appropriately by their new owners.  Not a single person has asked about getting them in their new owners livery.

If you want to see the difference between the HTC and Flexicoil trucks in action there is a video on Youtube [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07vc1q73i-c] showing the differences in slippage.  Both are SD40-2s and one is an ex Conrail unit.  Wow!

Sometimes a little independent helps with the wheelslip.

Scott has updated the website to show the correct version of the CN SD40-2 with the Canadian wide cab.  UPDATED:  Road numbers will be 5266, 5267, 5281, & 5289 from the GF-30p class in their mid 1980's appearance.  Updated website info here:  CN Wide Cab

I realize that this may seem like a bit of a moving picture, but this is the process at work.  Seeing where certain road numbers fit into various variations so that the slide-tool can be used to keep the project in line with cost projections.   

Last edited by GG1 4877

Jonathan:

Will the Norfolk and Western  SD40-2 be spelled out like the photo posted or will it have the more popular NW paint scheme?

Also will the high hood SD40-2 have the correct early grills and the all weather windows as per the NW EMD specs. PS: The EMD specs says 40" wheels.

Thanks, George DiSanti - Home the the Tar Heels!

The EMD documentation I have seen so far is not clear.  This operating manual states 40"
http://tcrc320.org/MEMBERS/SD40-2_Operator_Manual.pdf

This EMD maintenance instruction says that nominal wheel diameters are 40" and 42" and that 42" wheels were available on all HT-C trucks made since 1972.  Unless you have road specific details, I wouldn't get too picky.
https://heritagerailalliance.w...S-AXLES-1987-OCT.PDF

@rplst8 posted:

The EMD documentation I have seen so far is not clear.  This operating manual states 40"
http://tcrc320.org/MEMBERS/SD40-2_Operator_Manual.pdf

This EMD maintenance instruction says that nominal wheel diameters are 40" and 42" and that 42" wheels were available on all HT-C trucks made since 1972.  Unless you have road specific details, I wouldn't get too picky.
https://heritagerailalliance.w...S-AXLES-1987-OCT.PDF

I would be very careful about believing EVERYTHING posted on the internet. I was employed by EMD (June 1962 thru December 1998) and was in Sales Engineering Dept. when the Dash 2 series came out. None, I repeat NONE, of the Dash 2 series units were delivered with 42" diameter wheels! Yes, the the axle HT-C truck was DESIGNED to accept 42" diameter wheels, when they became available to RR customers.

Jonathan:

Will the Norfolk and Western  SD40-2 be spelled out like the photo posted or will it have the more popular NW paint scheme?

Also will the high hood SD40-2 have the correct early grills and the all weather windows as per the NW EMD specs. PS: The EMD specs says 40" wheels.

Thanks, George DiSanti - Home the the Tar Heels!

George,

The paint scheme will be the NW scheme.  It will have the early grills.  Most of the SD40-2 models will at this point.  For the all weather windows I have some photos, but if you have detailed images you can send to me or post that will help the factory understand how to do them well when they do their Solidworks models prior to starting any tooling.

Thanks!

Jonathon: I will send you or have Stephen send several photos of a well done brass all weather window. Please post the photo of the correct paint scheme so customers know what is to come. I ordered a loco years ago and got a different paint scheme than what was posted. Needless to say I was very very disappointed!!!!! Will the locos have color changing class light (F5 -white, red, and green) as ESU does for ScaleTrains in HO?  You may want to put 2 windows to be installed by the modelers as most had windows on each side and make extras to sell (I would buy some) for example the DT&I Geeps that were lacking.

George DiSanti - Home of the Tar Heels

Last edited by George diSanti

Jonathon: I will send you or have Stephen send several photos of a well done brass all weather window.

Prototype photos are preferable.  Just because it was done in brass doesn't always translate to correct.  We don't want to copy someone else's mistake.

Please post the photo of the correct paint scheme so customers know what is to come. I ordered a loco years ago and got a different paint scheme than what was posted. Needless to say I was very very disappointed!!!!!

I will request that Scott update the photo. 

Will the locos have color changing class light (F5 -white, red, and green) as ESU does for ScaleTrains in HO?

That is a direct question for Scott and the team that does the engineering side.  I am not involved with that part of the project, but I will be sure to pass it on,

You may want to put 2 windows to be installed by the modelers as most had windows on each side and make extras to sell (I would buy some) for example the DT&I Geeps that were lacking.

Again, Scott is the boss, but I will see what he says.  We often provide additional parts in the box for such modifications.

George DiSanti - Home of the Tar Heels

@sdmann  @GG1 4877

It has been almost two months since the last update on this (SD40-2 Diesel Engine) project thread.

So far it has been posted that the following road names (and road numbers if listed) are included in the production run.

Ferromex:

Burlington Northern (BN):

Santa Fe:

MOPAC: Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme

W&LE: Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016

Southern: 4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.

Conrail: 6441-6482 Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.

Milwaukee Road: Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.

CN: UPDATED: Road numbers will be 5266, 5267, 5281, & 5289 from the GF-30p class in their mid 1980's appearance.

Chessie: Road numbers 7600, 7607, 7613, 7618.

CSX: Road numbers 8243, 8247, 8250, 8253

N&W: (short / high hood, black NW scheme) - Count as two variations?)

Total of 12 known road names.



Per Scott on 7/4/2021, "Reservations will close in late 2021."   Is this still the current schedule?

Per Jonathan on 7/16/21, "This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past.  We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers."   Any additional road name, road numbers, information to share?

@catnap posted:

I've watched this video no less than a dozen times with the speakers at full volume. The Dash 8's sound pretty good, too, but nothing like the pushers.

I can't get mine over 50% and feel comfortable about their health! I am jealous.

Years ago I saw toy Conrail engines and thought that the all blue scheme was too easy. All these years later I actually prefer it. I'm not sure why on either?

I like that CN wide cab too.

.....and CSX, NS, NW, BN, SFe, Chessie, MW, MP, Southern, etc., etc..

I think this will be a great model.

@GregM posted:

@sdmann  @GG1 4877

It has been almost two months since the last update on this (SD40-2 Diesel Engine) project thread.

So far it has been posted that the following road names (and road numbers if listed) are included in the production run.

Ferromex:

Burlington Northern (BN):

Santa Fe:

MOPAC: Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme

W&LE: Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016

Southern: 4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.

Conrail: 6441-6482 Will have Flexcoil truck sideframes.

Milwaukee Road: Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.

CN: UPDATED: Road numbers will be 5266, 5267, 5281, & 5289 from the GF-30p class in their mid 1980's appearance.

Chessie: Road numbers 7600, 7607, 7613, 7618.

CSX: Road numbers 8243, 8247, 8250, 8253

N&W: (short / high hood, black NW scheme) - Count as two variations?)

Total of 12 known road names.



Per Scott on 7/4/2021, "Reservations will close in late 2021."   Is this still the current schedule?

Per Jonathan on 7/16/21, "This project will be rolled out a little differently than in the past.  We will post the details for each locomotive prior to it going into production including road numbers."   Any additional road name, road numbers, information to share?

i am missing the D@RGW in this list, will these be cancelled?

and also i do not see the SP ?



i have 4 on order from both

Cor

3rd Rail SD40-2 / SD40T-2 Road Name/ Road Numbers Matrix as of 9/23/2021 7:30 PM

Total of 15 known road names out of a maximum of 20.

Burlington Northern (BN):

CHESSIE: Road numbers 7600, 7607, 7613, 7618.

CN: UPDATED: Road numbers will be 5266, 5267, 5281, & 5289 from the GF-30p class in their mid 1980's appearance.

CONRAIL: 6441-6482 Will have Flexcoil truck side frames.

CSX: Road numbers 8243, 8247, 8250, 8253

D&RGW:

FERROMEX:

Milwaukee Road: Road numbers 184, 193, 205, 209 with their dinky 3200 gallon fuel tanks.

MOPAC: Road numbers 3217, 3229, 3255, 3264 in their mid 1980's paint scheme

N&W: (short / high hood, black NW scheme)

Santa Fe:

Southern: 4 road numbers between 3201-3216 to be determined.

SP:

UP:

W&LE: Road numbers 7002, 7010, 7013, 7016

Last edited by GregM

Well the yellow/orange Chessie steam engine is showing a production sample, Kraus Maffei probably well along too, and EA, E1 just had reservations close (so ordering parts).  That’s what in the “active” locomotive production chain. So with all the previous discussions about SD40-2 details, is it safe to say that the SD40-2 and Tunnels will have reservations closing   Soon - Say by end of year - indicating Finally heading into production ???  If this is a reasonable scenario, we could hopefully see a delivery in Early Q3 (July).    It’s been a Long Wait for this model. Here’s hoping the wait is nearing an end !!!!!!!!!  
Cheers

Hmmmm. I don’t have a SD9 to compare color finish with my GP9s. Just in general, I don’t think that gloss lasted very long in the real rail world. A softer (or a bit dull ?) finish seems a bit more “every day” to me.  Perhaps someone that has a road with both SD and GP can post us a some side by side pictures for comparison.  
Without that, Right now, I’d prefer a non hi-gloss - a more flat paint job.
Cheers !!!

@TrainBub posted:

Hmmmm. I don’t have a SD9 to compare color finish with my GP9s. Just in general, I don’t think that gloss lasted very long in the real rail world. A softer (or a bit dull ?) finish seems a bit more “every day” to me.  Perhaps someone that has a road with both SD and GP can post us a some side by side pictures for comparison.  
Without that, Right now, I’d prefer a non hi-gloss - a more flat paint job.
Cheers !!!

If you interested, do Google search of 3rd rail SD9, there are great pictures out there

The paint finish looks more model-like and the duller finish hides paint imperfections

Anyways, that's just my opinion,

hopefully these will be great models gloss or flat finish

@Cogen1981 posted:

Jonathan,

on this upcoming run of SD40-2s,

do you guys plan on using the  gloss paint finish like on the GP9s or the duller finish like the SD9?

IMO the finish on the SD9s looked much better, the flatter paint is more forgiving to paint imperfections and looks more prototypical

That decision hasn't been made yet.  Lately it seems the glossier finish has been more popular like what was done on the E6s or more satin finish on the PAs.  However, that decision won't be made until 2022.  Research went to the design team in Asia last month and it was very thorough.  They won't have the BIM drawings and 2D projections back for a first draft review until January likely.  There will be several rounds of corrections most likely based on the amount of data they got for this project.

@GG1 4877 posted:

That decision hasn't been made yet.  Lately it seems the glossier finish has been more popular like what was done on the E6s or more satin finish on the PAs.  However, that decision won't be made until 2022.  Research went to the design team in Asia last month and it was very thorough.  They won't have the BIM drawings and 2D projections back for a first draft review until January likely.  There will be several rounds of corrections most likely based on the amount of data they got for this project.

Thanks for your response and attention to detail

@TrainBub posted:

Here is what I consider a “softer” than “hi-gloss” finish. The E6 is 3rd Rail. The U-boat is MTH. I use the MTH model here as 3rd Rail has not yet done a MP model in Jenks blue. IMHO, both are excellent color and finish (gloss). 97011D66-F319-471E-833E-7ECBEBF10EDE

Good post,

The higher gloss finish looks good on the F and E series car body locomotive that commonly are used for passenger service, while I think the satin finish is more appropriate on the more industrial looking Spartan cab freight locomotive  

@Cogen1981 posted:

Good post,

The higher gloss finish looks good on the F and E series car body locomotive that commonly are used for passenger service, while I think the satin finish is more appropriate on the more industrial looking Spartan cab freight locomotive  

I like the term “satin finish” and agree “more appropriate on the …. Freight locomotive.”  
Here’s an Atlas GP15 model. I think it hits the “satin finish” mark quite Nicely.   Of course IMO.22EA227A-3DA3-4BC4-A653-AC6D803872BB

Attachments

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  • 22EA227A-3DA3-4BC4-A653-AC6D803872BB
@GG1 4877 posted:

That decision hasn't been made yet.  Lately it seems the glossier finish has been more popular like what was done on the E6s or more satin finish on the PAs.  However, that decision won't be made until 2022.  Research went to the design team in Asia last month and it was very thorough.  They won't have the BIM drawings and 2D projections back for a first draft review until January likely.  There will be several rounds of corrections most likely based on the amount of data they got for this project.

Jonathan,

Glad to hear its moving along, and thanks for all your work on it. Are you able to share with us what decisions were made in terms of as-delivered versus later appearance (or maybe it's a mixed bag depending on the road name). In particular I'm curious about the Santa Fe models. I hope you had a nice Thanksgiving.

RM