3rd Rail / Sunset Models?

It's all about 'wide' radius minimum curves. Beautiful products from 3rd rail but they require big radius curves, which also makes their 'scale' products more aesthetically pleasing to the eye as well.

Michael,  Tubular track is not a problem, but you're going to receive a bunch of responses regarding size of curves.  I'd recommend a minimum of 0-72.  The larger the better.  John

Thank you.  No problems with 0-72.  I assume all the products labelled as 3 rail will work on tubular track?

The only things that "won't" work on tubular track are those labeled "2-rail"

---PCJ

Although my layout is equipped with O42 track and switches, I recently bought the Sunset Models 3rd Rail Rock Island PEORIA ROCKET train set anyway. I knew upfront that it requires O72 minimum radius track and switches, but bought it for heart-and-soul reasons:  I'm a RI fan, I grew up in Peoria, and I rode that train to/from Peoria to Chicago as a teenager. I'll never be able to run it at home (unless I add-on a larger Train Room to the house). so the train is on display only. An expensive indulgence!  A photo is attached - the PEORIA ROCKET rests on the third shelf down from the top.

Mike

3rd Rail has a test track at the main office in CA that has Lionel tubular track, Atlas track, and Gargraves to test the locomotive chassis and cars.  They have no issue with 072 curves.  Even the Virginian EL2 and the Jawn Henry negotiated 072 curves.  Not sure what miracle of quantum mechanics made that possible.  

I suspect you have issues running that Texas Special as well.

Most 3 rail o scale items should operate ok on tubular track if they have hi rail wheels as commonly found on most o scale locomotives and rolling stock. Those having scale size wheels can be problematic for tubular track, especially where switches are concerned.

I agree for 21" scale length passenger cars minimum curve size is 0-72.  The larger the better.

Bob

Would be nice to build an E60 set with a mix of Heritage coaches like the 3rd rail Slumber-coach...and Amfleet.   I know we have stationsounds passenger cars from Lionel but I wish the sounds could mimic the common screeching brakes that the heritage equipment had.   Wasn't the Phase II scheme still well represented into the 90's?

@GG1 4877 posted:

 Even the Virginian EL2 and the Jawn Henry negotiated 072 curves.  Not sure what miracle of quantum mechanics made that possible.  

They negotiated those curves because you were observing them. If you hadn't been observing them, they would have derailed.   

3rd Rail is one of the best importers out there. Some of the most cherished items in my collection are Sunset models.

I have to echo Santiago, I have several sunset models/ GGD models and they are some of the most prized pieces in my collection.... a league of their own. 

Interesting to note that scale wheels, without the large (Lionel style) 3-rail flanges, are a bit more temperamental. Image of my Sunset 3rd rail SD7-9.   Front and back wheel set, with smaller scale flanges.  Middle set is flange-less, (Blind driver). 

Mike Mottler - It's always nice to meet another member of the 35 club - the number of 3rd rail Rockets made in 3 rail. 

@Mike W. posted:

Would be nice to build an E60 set with a mix of Heritage coaches like the 3rd rail Slumber-coach...and Amfleet.   I know we have stationsounds passenger cars from Lionel but I wish the sounds could mimic the common screeching brakes that the heritage equipment had.   Wasn't the Phase II scheme still well represented into the 90's?

By the 90's there wasn't a lot if any Phase II painted equipment left.  Phase II was fairly short lived from about 1976 to 1981 when Phase III was introduced.  That lasted up to just after the turn of the century.

However, many E60's stayed in phase II paint up through the mid 80's prior to rebuilds into E60MAs. 

My plan is to put together a mixed Heritage fleet train as well.  Finding much that is to scale in phase III is difficult.  I'm probably going to repaint some items personally.

Thanks for the feedback.  Reserved a Phase III E60MA and the heritage slumbercoach for now.   I always like the E60 even though it wobbled and derailed at high speed.  Wasn't this true of Amtrak's other beauty, EMD SDP40F.  We need one of those in O Gauge.  

@Mike W. posted:

Thanks for the feedback.  Reserved a Phase III E60MA and the heritage slumbercoach for now.   I always like the E60 even though it wobbled and derailed at high speed.  Wasn't this true of Amtrak's other beauty, EMD SDP40F.

No, the SDP40F did NOT "wobble and derailed at high speed", unless it was on bad track! Neither the Santa Fe nor the UP ever had any issues with the SDP40F, even at speeds to 102 MPH.

  We need one of those in O Gauge.  

There was some fatal flaw noted with the SDP40F.  Reported to ride poorly and after several derailments they were dropped from the roster.  Unless Amtrak chose to stick with the bad track and dropped the locos as being the reason.   Was the E60 ever involved in any self inflicted derailments?

@Mike W. posted:

There was some fatal flaw noted with the SDP40F. 

No,,,,,there was NOT!

Reported to ride poorly and after several derailments they were dropped from the roster. 

They "rode poorly" on RIOUGH/BAD track. I as stated earlier, there was never any problems on the UP nor the Santa Fe, at speeds to 102 MPH. 

Unless Amtrak chose to stick with the bad track and dropped the locos as being the reason. 

Amtrak didn't have any bad track, but the railroads they operated over, in the east sure did (like the Family Lines, and Chess System, and PC/Conrail).

 Was the E60 ever involved in any self inflicted derailments?

Yes. The GE passenger units on the Santa Fe, equipped with the exact same truck as the E60, derailed at speed on the Santa Fe. They were subsequently quickly removed from passenger service. Also, during the first test Amtrak passenger train on the North East Corridor, the E60 derailed at 98 MPH, in a slight curve, and tore out 3 of the 4 tracks.  The GE test car recorded all the data!  It was subsequently discovered that the critical vibration frequency of the GE 3-axle truck match exactly the frequency of 39 foot rail joints, thus there was no way to keep the E60 "on the rails" at speeds over 98 MPH.