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A long time ago...

We brought out a Brass GE 9-44CW Diesel in the late 1990s. Our first diesel in 3 Rail. It's been over 20 years.  I think it's time to do the 2.0 Dash 9. This time with ABS body, Brass Details, ERR Cruise, Railsounds, Remote Couplers, ESU DCC / LOK Sound in 2 Rail, Fixed Pilots, Full Cab Interior and our Horizontal Drive with all axles powered. Look for an announcement in the coming days.

Scott Mann

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Excellent news Scott. I like the modern power. I have been a loyal Lionel supporter for over 50 years. I love their products and nothing would excite me more than an orange and blue box with a new engine inside. But I am sick and tired of buying new product only to have it not work or break down. This has been the case with me for the last 5 catalogs. I have sent back 9 new engines to Lionel for warranty work and I currently have 5 more at a local shop for repairs.

Maybe I just have bad luck. 

I made a conscience decision to start to buy my new engines from Scott at 3rd Rail. I know if there is a problem (highly unlikely) he will take care of it quickly. Down side is that only a few new models are announced each year that interest me. The Dash-9's are right in my wheelhouse, so thanks again Scott.

Donald

Wow. I’m pleasantly surprised. I’ll certainly reserve several, how many depending on road names. To this day I’m still tempted to track down one of the old brass versions  hopefully the reservations come  

Scott, there’s a lot of little detail variation in the prototype as things like windows, , step wells, handrail configuration and body panels changed over time and from roadname to roadname. That’s on top of the more obvious things modelers notice like headlight, number board and ditch light placement. Will all these variations be reflected in the models?

Thanks,

RM

@sdmann posted:

Bummer. Unless there is s demo model, i will be out.

There's a Demo!!!

From OGR Pages

Will this model carry the Ball bearing drive as well?

Ok! I'm in!

That locomotive has not been done to scale. Only the last century a Lionel toy concoction was done.

I hope this time around this model will work out for you Scott.

GE dash-9

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  • GE dash-9
Last edited by prrhorseshoecurve
@Hot Water posted:

Especially since this will be a model of a LARGE 6 axle GE diesel, your 042 curves might be a bit too tight.

Yeah, that's what I figured. I noticed that the pilots on the 3rd Rail F3's are removable, so I wondered if it could be possible to basically go in reverse and mount them on the trucks instead. Majority of my stuff is Postwar and MPC, so that's one of the reasons why my layout is smaller, because most of my stuff is, lol. But there's plenty of scale stuff that I want; it's just that I can't run nothing like the Big Boy on my layout at the moment. But if any of Scott's diesels and electrics could be modified a bit for tighter curves, that would be cool.

Oh yeah, I forgot it has a horizontal drive motor. Thank you for the replies.

I am aware that some 3rd Rail models can negotiate O-42, and of course I would like to eventually get some of them one day. Either way, even if GE locomotives made in the past few decades are constantly being produced in the model train industry, like others have said this version by 3rd rail will be in a league of its own. I look forward to seeing what it will look like.

@hibar posted:

 

Perhaps a newer ES/ET 44 GE  series would get better reservation response.

I think it would be awesome to see high quality ET44AC's represented in O Scale since MTH is now out of the new market, seems like a great time to tool this one up with all the class one railroads owning these awesome locomotives.  While I do believe there are slight variations in frame length, would be fairly easy to re-use a good chunk of the design work for C44-9W's through ET44AC's, perhaps some of the tooling.... biggest changes are in the bodies obviously. 

It is comical to me that a nearly 30 year old engine is referred to as "modern".  I'm happy for all the people who are excited for big "modern" 6 axle power.  I'm not a big "modern" fan so I'll give the wallet a rest on these. With F-units inbound, Geeps soon to come, hopefully FAs/FBs, and SD40-2s as a long shot I already have allocated way too much. Not to mention an unannounced project that I will need at least 4 of.  

@sdmann posted:

A long time ago...

We brought out a Brass GE 9-44CW Diesel in the late 1990s. Our first diesel in 3 Rail. It's been over 20 years.  I think it's time to do the 2.0 Dash 9. This time with ABS body, Brass Details, ERR Cruise, Railsounds, Remote Couplers, ESU DCC / LOK Sound in 2 Rail, Fixed Pilots, Full Cab Interior and our Horizontal Drive with all axles powered. Look for an announcement in the coming days.

Scott Mann

Ok, I must be "Stuck in Stupid" but every time I go to 3rd Rail website or click on the 3RD Rail OGR Forum Banner, the reservation section is still void of this Dash 9.  What am I doing wrong?

I reserved a couple of SD40-2's when they were announced in 2016. If production meant raising prices by 10% I would still keep my reservations.

MTH makes some nice Dash 8's and 9's and Evolution Series locomotives so I'll take a pass on the Dash 9's from 3rd Rail. My primary interest is in 2nd generation diesel so a GP30 from 3rd Rail would definitely pique my interest.

@jonnyspeed posted:

It is comical to me that a nearly 30 year old engine is referred to as "modern".  I'm happy for all the people who are excited for big "modern" 6 axle power.  I'm not a big "modern" fan so I'll give the wallet a rest on these. With F-units inbound, Geeps soon to come, hopefully FAs/FBs, and SD40-2s as a long shot I already have allocated way too much. Not to mention an unannounced project that I will need at least 4 of.  

Well I count my blessing that I’m not into “modern” diesels. I draw the line around the SD40-2s. Perhaps they’d be more do-able if the roster was expanded - more choices. I’ll eventually commit to MP and Frisco but the queue in front is Really Full for me with reservations for GP’s, FA’s, Olympian beckoning, hoping for MP Eagle.
Hmmmm.  An unannounced project to come.  Great. Sounds like more trouble for me coming down the pike. 😮 I’m safe though if it’s “modern”. 🤣🤣🤣

TrainBub

If I were to order these C44-9W models it would have to be 3-Rail and I would need 2 of them.

Santa Fe is my first choice of railroad.

The Canadian National ones are common on freight trains here right now, so I am not sure if I want that.

The Chicago & North Western markings had a large amount of retroreflective decals that could be put on the model.

Andrew

Falcon Service

@rheil posted:

Scott is busy with a lot of projects. We talked for a while today and you can expect to see an announcement in the future about what we think is a potentially great project. It is a steam locomotive.

The GP7 and GP9 project is taking a LOT of time.

Take your time Scott. I’m reserved on many of the current projects . I’ll be in again of course on the diesels. Appreciate the various offerings. 

shameless plug for UP Excursion cars and Chicago and Eastern Illinois F3s. 

unfortunately Emd 2nd generation popular diesels abound in both two and three rail. I would like to see the not so popular second Generation diesels like

F45/FP45/SDP40F,

SD45-2, SD45X,

GP40X,

GE U28/U30/U33B's

ALCo C636, C415, T6 

And how about Really turning heads with a Paducha built GP8/ GP10's!

 

I definitely agree with you on the EMD full-cab units. As a big Amtrak collector, there's no question that I want models of their short-lived locomotives, and I would be more than happy to get those locomotives you listed, in both Amtrak and Santa Fe.

@vash44 posted:

Take your time Scott. I’m reserved on many of the current projects . I’ll be in again of course on the diesels. Appreciate the various offerings. 

shameless plug for UP Excursion cars and Chicago and Eastern Illinois F3s. 

Hmmm. C&EI F3s. That’d be a nice add for a second run. Add MP to that too. No problem with tooling for portholes. Surely if CGW can hit minimums you make the cut, these two should too !!!  TrainBub

@rheil posted:

Scott is busy with a lot of projects. We talked for a while today and you can expect to see an announcement in the future about what we think is a potentially great project. It is a steam locomotive.

The GP7 and GP9 project is taking a LOT of time.

GPs = LOT of time. I bet !!! Even if only 80% of the roads make the production “cut“, that’s a LOT of details to work thru. The reward Should Be a Very Large Run. 
This is possible because of the Tremendous diversity of road options !!!!  Bravo !!! With that approach you capture buyers from all regions. Popular Diesels Allows this even if you only include original ownership. Next new diesel announcement With large Very diverse geographic Coverage ?  RS or some switcher ???  

New steam Project - always welcome. 

@TrainBub posted:

.... But will people be willing to spend $ for a small diesel ???

For people like myself with small 3-rail layouts, small scale-sized transition-era locomotives, such as the SW-1, are perfect. With the closure of MTH, they may also present a market opportunity for Sunset/3rd Rail by virtue of lower price and higher sales. I have a GP-7 on order but won't be a buyer for a GE Dash-9, although I think it will sell well. I would order an SW-1.

MELGAR

@TrainBub posted:

GPs = LOT of time. I bet !!! Even if only 80% of the roads make the production “cut“, that’s a LOT of details to work thru. The reward Should Be a Very Large Run. 
This is possible because of the Tremendous diversity of road options !!!!  Bravo !!! With that approach you capture buyers from all regions. Popular Diesels Allows this even if you only include original ownership. Next new diesel announcement With large Very diverse geographic Coverage ?  RS or some switcher ???  

New steam Project - always welcome. 

From my in head fuzzy new math, a little over 90% of the road names made the cut.  Some were consolidated when orders were low in both GP9 and GP7 versions of the same road but together were enough to make the road name go forward.

Next diesel announcement?  There are few options bouncing around.  

I have an NDA on the steam locomotive.   

@GG1 4877 posted:

From my in head fuzzy new math, a little over 90% of the road names made the cut.  Some were consolidated when orders were low in both GP9 and GP7 versions of the same road but together were enough to make the road name go forward.

Next diesel announcement?  There are few options bouncing around.  

I have an NDA on the steam locomotive.   

Well I hope the next diesel announcement is another with a Large Diverse geographic Base. It sure will make a LOT of people Happy !!!!  
Welllll ...on the other hand, too much of a good thing gets expensive and difficult for many of us to manage / budget. 🤣 Odds are that the steam Project is some eastern road that I’m not interested in So no bother. Gives me a breather to manage reservations. 

The British Columbia Railway and Canadian National did have a distinct version of the cabin on their first orders. 

If you are going to make something distinct, it has to include all of the variations.

Scott,

The graphics on modern DASH 9 locomotives have a large amount on Retro-Reflective decals on them. An O scale model must have these retro-reflective decals duplicated.

 

Andrew

@MELGAR posted:

For people like myself with small 3-rail layouts, small scale-sized transition-era locomotives, such as the SW-1, are perfect. With the closure of MTH, they may also present a market opportunity for Sunset/3rd Rail by virtue of lower price and higher sales. I have a GP-7 on order but won't be a buyer for a GE Dash-9, although I think it will sell well. I would order an SW-1.

MELGAR

I also appreciate necessities for “ small” layouts. Mine is 8x12 (no basement). I’m sure we’d have fixed pilots as usual but I hope small engine also means smaller than O54 Turnouts and curves would be possible. MTHs departure from the business Should push at least some business to Scott. Yes, hopeful higher volumes can help Scott negotiate better prices. The price “creep” is getting a bit tough to manage. 

@sdmann posted:

A long time ago...

We brought out a Brass GE 9-44CW Diesel in the late 1990s. Our first diesel in 3 Rail. It's been over 20 years.  I think it's time to do the 2.0 Dash 9. This time with ABS body, Brass Details, ERR Cruise, Railsounds, Remote Couplers, ESU DCC / LOK Sound in 2 Rail, Fixed Pilots, Full Cab Interior and our Horizontal Drive with all axles powered. Look for an announcement in the coming days.

Scott Mann

(Emphasis added).

Scott,

Any update (on the Dash 9, not all this other off-topic stuff),or will we be seeing the announcement soon? 

Thanks,

RM

Geez, 6 weeks already. Sorry. Had a week off the computer due to my Sciatica, but I am back, will put these up this weekend, along with some other great ideas.

Been focusing on getting the GP79 project into tooling. Lots of last minute corrections, analysis of what roads we can make etc.  It's all good. I am glad you guys are excited and anxious for these projects. It's what makes them happen. Cheers.

@sdmann posted:

Geez, 6 weeks already. Sorry. Had a week off the computer due to my Sciatica, but I am back, will put these up this weekend, along with some other great ideas.

Been focusing on getting the GP79 project into tooling. Lots of last minute corrections, analysis of what roads we can make etc.  It's all good. I am glad you guys are excited and anxious for these projects. It's what makes them happen. Cheers.

Glad you are feeling better.  Do what is necessary to keep your health. And keeping you immune system in top shape is Critical these days.
I’m sure there will be a lot of “trainiacs” watching for your web updates this weekend. We all hope for that new offering that we will want.
And yes - definitely excited that the GPs are heading into production. It has to be the most diverse “O” Gauge offering anyone has ever done !!!! 
Cheers

TrainBub

@sdmann posted:

Geez, 6 weeks already. Sorry. Had a week off the computer due to my Sciatica, but I am back, will put these up this weekend, along with some other great ideas.

Been focusing on getting the GP79 project into tooling. Lots of last minute corrections, analysis of what roads we can make etc.  It's all good. I am glad you guys are excited and anxious for these projects. It's what makes them happen. Cheers.

If you could figure out how to build a small lot of the greatest loco ever made by EMD, I would save all my pennies and dimes for two, drum rollllllllllll, Milwaukee's SDL39, please.

By the way, I got to have the Corona virus in late April, just a mild case so I wish you good health.

Dick

Last edited by CBQer
@2012ford posted:

No announcement yet. Still waiting to see what is going to happen.

“A watched pot won’t boil” or something like that. Scott said he’s going to do it. I believe him. The path to fruition (delivery) takes time. Even when it is finally announced, its going to take At Least a year before we see it. 
Think positive !!! I bet we see some info “soon”. 
TrainBub

Small steam, large steam, small diesel, large diesel, to the builder they are all the same.  It's probably $150K+ nowadays before the builder is interested.  So, he'll make you one SDL39, for $150K.  Two for $75K each.

While Dash 9s are too old for me I do hope this project gets good traction (no pun intended).

I'd really like it if the Chargers or Sprinters for the Amfleets or the Viewliner IIs would get come traction but alas, no. Or ES/ET44s. Or the Tier4 SD70s.

@rdunniii posted:

Small steam, large steam, small diesel, large diesel, to the builder they are all the same.  It's probably $150K+ nowadays before the builder is interested.  So, he'll make you one SDL39, for $150K.  Two for $75K each.

While Dash 9s are too old for me I do hope this project gets good traction (no pun intended).

I'd really like it if the Chargers or Sprinters for the Amfleets or the Viewliner IIs would get come traction but alas, no. Or ES/ET44s. Or the Tier4 SD70s.

If he offers Chargers, ES/ET44's or Teir4 SD70s I may need to sell a kidney! Those are all 3 on the top of my wishlist. 

@vash44 posted:

If he offers Chargers, ES/ET44's or Teir4 SD70s I may need to sell a kidney! Those are all 3 on the top of my wishlist. 

I'd love es44s, rn I'm stuck with attempting to 2-rail lionel ones if I want any. Tier 4 sd70s are one of favorite locomotives in real life so I could definitely find a use for 1 or 2. Et44s are probably my least favorite locomotive on the rails today, they're like an invasive (and ugly) species on the cn. However, that doesn't mean I couldn't use a few on a layout.

I ordered my Santa Fes. I have a question on the BNSF offering I'll post here because others might want to know too:

Will the BNSF models just be repainted Santa Fes or will they have the four side window cab that appeared on all BNSF's newly-purchased Heritage II models (4000-4199 and 4300-5532)? If the latter, I'll order some of those too.

Yes, it's different tooling, but then you can also accurately make the 700 series BNSF war bonnet model too.

ATSF with three windows

BNSF with four windows

Thanks for offering these.

RM

Great info. This is what's called a core change, not a big deal for plastic tooling. But is this what other's want? 

The price difference is due to the number of orders we expect. Since this model has been done many times in 3R and some in 2R, we don't expect 500 units, more like 200 - 250 total. So when you amortize the tooling costs over a smaller quantity of models, they are more expensive to produce. Same situation as the EA and E1s, VGN EL2B, Krauss Maffei, all smaller production runs, making the unit cost higher. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how we are able to make all these unique productions possible with smaller quantities. 

Scott Mann

Last edited by sdmann
@sdmann posted:

Great info. This is what's called a core change, not a big deal for plastic tooling. But is this what other's want? 

The price difference is due to the number of orders we expect. Since this model has been done many times in 3R and some in 2R, we don't expect 500 units, more like 200 - 250 total. So when you amortize the tooling costs over a smaller quantity of models, they are more expensive to produce. Same situation as the EA and E1s, VGN EL2B, Krauss Maffei, all smaller production runs, making the unit cost higher. Wish it wasn't so, but that's how we are able to make all these unique productions possible with smaller quantities. 

Scott Mann

Your reservation numbers will soon tell the tale on how well received this offering is. Well here’s hoping the numbers are a Pleasant surprise for you.
Pricing based on reservation expectations makes sense and mentioning above locos like the KM Really shows how few of them will be produced. 
This offering goes into a different “era” so to speak - and probably some different buyers. More power to you to try to expand your market.  It’s not my market so my pocketbook gets a rest this time. 🤗  With different buyers/ market, it shouldn’t impede projects in which I have interests. 🙂
Good Luck on this one.
Cheers

TrainBub

I ordered my Santa Fes. I have a question on the BNSF offering I'll post here because others might want to know too:

Will the BNSF models just be repainted Santa Fes or will they have the four side window cab that appeared on all BNSF's newly-purchased Heritage II models (4000-4199 and 4300-5532)? If the latter, I'll order some of those too.

Yes, it's different tooling, but then you can also accurately make the 700 series BNSF war bonnet model too.

ATSF with three windows

BNSF with four windows

Thanks for offering these.

RM

5 step pilots on the BNSF units also.

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