Living here in Florida, I know there is zero chance of me seeing the 4014 rolling through Pensacola.  I have family in Little Rock, Arkansas and Union Pacific has a major repair facility there among other things.  Is there any hope that the 4014 would eventually make it to Little Rock?  A couple of years ago I saw the 844 in Memphis.  Memphis would be even better for me, not as far to drive.   

Clint Martin aka Mr. Union Pacific

TCA 15-71385

Two types of people in the world...

Those who own a Harley Davidson & those who wish they did!

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Original Post

Where the UP roams, there’s a chance the tour could go as long as the big boy can fit.  Remember there was a big boy in Vermont when steamtown was located there.   Ive been told when they located the engine to Scranton the issue wasn’t the engine but the tender when moving her into the park.

PAUL ROMANO posted:

I'm hoping that the 4014 can visit sister 4012 in Scranton, PA!  

Would NS allow such a big loco on their line, though? The tender is a pretty big issue, but I’m sure it is equivalent to an SD80MAC or SD70ACU’s wheelbase, right? Also, wouldn’t the loco have to go over Amtrak lines to get up to scranton if it went through Harrisburg? The questions could go on and on. I’m not saying it will never come easy, but it is highly unlikely. Maybe they will do a tour and pose it with the 7 other big boys!

We had the Challenger in Sioux City, IA several years ago. It spent several days parked in the UP yard. Quite a sight when it left town headed to Omaha about 90 miles south. We also had Milwaukee 261 years ago. It spent overnight at the BN yard.

Dick

Dick Donaway

VietNam Veteran

Berkshire President posted:

Remember when the 844's tender had one wheel come off the track a few years back, possibly around Pomona?

While the weight of the 844, 3985, and 4014 is an issue, I think the tender winds up being the bigger headache......IIRC.

According to HW and other's in the know, the issue is the drive wheel base, 8 versus 6 axles, not the centipede tender..  From what these people say, the 3985 was able to go places that 844 was not, and by default also 4014.

I don't hold hopes of seeing either 844 or 4014 in Texas, as they haven't had UP steam down here in a long time, 2012 was the last.  I was fortunate in that I got to see 3985 up close and alone back in 2004 during the Super Bowl.  It was on a siding and Steve Lee was actually walking around it and I got to talk to him for a while.  Super nice guy, let me get pictures, and offered to take me into the cab.  Unfortunately I had to get to a meeting and they were leaving before I would be done.

NS6770Fan posted:
PAUL ROMANO posted:

I'm hoping that the 4014 can visit sister 4012 in Scranton, PA!  

Would NS allow such a big loco on their line, though? The tender is a pretty big issue, but I’m sure it is equivalent to an SD80MAC or SD70ACU’s wheelbase, right? Also, wouldn’t the loco have to go over Amtrak lines to get up to scranton if it went through Harrisburg? The questions could go on and on. I’m not saying it will never come easy, but it is highly unlikely. Maybe they will do a tour and pose it with the 7 other big boys!

IF, it wouldn’t be under steam.

-Chris Member since 12/14/02

I'm hoping to see the Big Boy in Arizona one day.  If the 844 could make the "0-27" curve through Tempe, perhaps the 4014 could as well?  The 844 came a few months early for our state Centennial celebration in late 2011.  Amazing to watch it run at speed out in the rural part of the county.  At my spritely age of a mere 50 I've been around a lot of live steam but never anything that went much more than 25mph.  To see the 844 run at 50-60 mph was something I never thought I'd witness. 

Has the 4014 been restored to the level that it can run close to it's original speeds?  Wasn't that about 80mph? 

Jonathan Peiffer

 

GG1 4877 posted:

I'm hoping to see the Big Boy in Arizona one day.  If the 844 could make the "0-27" curve through Tempe, perhaps the 4014 could as well?  The 844 came a few months early for our state Centennial celebration in late 2011.  Amazing to watch it run at speed out in the rural part of the county.  At my spritely age of a mere 50 I've been around a lot of live steam but never anything that went much more than 25mph.  To see the 844 run at 50-60 mph was something I never thought I'd witness. 

Has the 4014 been restored to the level that it can run close to it's original speeds?  Wasn't that about 80mph? 

Big Boy was never operated at 80 MPH. Her reciprocating and revolving machinery was over-engineered for 80 MPH to provide a safety factor to prevent failures in the normal operating range. Freight train speeds during the period when Big Boy ruled the roost topped out at 50 MPH. That's plenty fast enough to move manifest trains and reefer blocks. Much of Big Boy's time was spent slogging it out at 12 - 15 MPH, ascending mountain grades. The fast running was mainly on the downgrades and only where conditions allowed. One of the places they really rolled was descending the west slope of Sherman Hill from Tie Siding to Laramie.

Tiffany posted:

Hello guys and gals

So what's happening to the Challenger # 3985 as of this time ? ...

Hi Tiffany

Nothing from UP, and nothing that I actually heard, but … an unbiased poster in Ogden stated that UP Senior VP Moore thought that 3985 would no longer be part of their running steam stable. Explaining that they've had two great steam engines in the past, and will do the same now with 4014 and 844. 

The people at the top wanted a "Big Boy." That's what they got. Time rolls on.

There's always hope.

There's more hope that 4014 will run to the extreme southeast section of the UPRR Ranch than there is that UPRR will return the 3985 to operation anytime in the visible future.  

Typically, railroad enthusiasts hope that someone else will pay for a desired preservation/restoration project.  I did not have a great deal of enthusiasm to head off into the Transcontinental Railroad Anniversary and the grand first trip of a Big Boy since I was in 7th grade, but I'll get up to see it run somewhere in the next couple of years.  It's there, now.

Never say, "Never."  But hope.  Always hope.

Tom

 

Superintendent, High Plains Division (O Gauge) 

The Panhandle & Santa Fe Railway Co.

Lone Star Hi-Railers

Santa Fe, All the Way

EBT Jim posted:
Tiffany posted:

Hello guys and gals

So what's happening to the Challenger # 3985 as of this time ? ...

Hi Tiffany

Nothing from UP, and nothing that I actually heard, but … an unbiased poster in Ogden stated that UP Senior VP Moore thought that 3985 would no longer be part of their running steam stable. Explaining that they've had two great steam engines in the past, and will do the same now with 4014 and 844. 

The people at the top wanted a "Big Boy." That's what they got. Time rolls on.

The danger with something coming from the top is in the future, the top could say, "Only one steamer," or worse, "None!"  Same could happen with business car fleet.

The TEXAS SPECIAL:  The REAL RED streak of the golden prairies!

Nick Chillianis posted:
GG1 4877 posted:

I'm hoping to see the Big Boy in Arizona one day.  If the 844 could make the "0-27" curve through Tempe, perhaps the 4014 could as well?  The 844 came a few months early for our state Centennial celebration in late 2011.  Amazing to watch it run at speed out in the rural part of the county.  At my spritely age of a mere 50 I've been around a lot of live steam but never anything that went much more than 25mph.  To see the 844 run at 50-60 mph was something I never thought I'd witness. 

Has the 4014 been restored to the level that it can run close to it's original speeds?  Wasn't that about 80mph? 

Big Boy was never operated at 80 MPH. Her reciprocating and revolving machinery was over-engineered for 80 MPH to provide a safety factor to prevent failures in the normal operating range. Freight train speeds during the period when Big Boy ruled the roost topped out at 50 MPH. That's plenty fast enough to move manifest trains and reefer blocks. Much of Big Boy's time was spent slogging it out at 12 - 15 MPH, ascending mountain grades. The fast running was mainly on the downgrades and only where conditions allowed. One of the places they really rolled was descending the west slope of Sherman Hill from Tie Siding to Laramie.

The Pentrex Big Boys video shows a Big Boy running down the grade at Red Buttes, Wyoming at over 60 mph.  The most recent Classic Trains magazine has an article about a third batch of oil-fired Big Boys for LA & SL line on the UP (never built) in which a fireman was quoted saying that a Big Boy could keep a 5600 ton freight train rolling on the line between Milford and Lynndyl at 60mph, 65 if pushed.

I think the main point for me is simply seeing a large steam locomotive run at even 50 mph.  Not something people get to see very often in this day and age.  At that speed the reciprocating machinery shakes the ground in a way no other locomotive does. 

As to the 3985, I do hope UP decides to make it road worthy again.  When I think of UP steam Northerns, Challengers, and Big Boys come to mind first.  Granted it is only money.  Money that is not mine.

Jonathan Peiffer

 

Number 90 posted:

There's always hope.

Usually most railroad enthusiasts hope that someone else will pay for a desired preservation/restoration project.

Given the scope and scale of restoration projects, even if you group a large number of enthusiasts together would not scrape up enough money to restore an engine, most projects that  I can tell that actually do it rely on all kinds of funding, state and local grants, corporate grants, foundations to get most of the funding, individual contributions tend to be a much smaller part of major projects. Projects that cost 7 figures and above generally require big resources *shrug*. 

The person who dies with the best toys dies a happy person

All of this talk about the 3985 is pure conjecture.  NOTHING definitive has been said, written, tweeted, etc.

It was running relatively recently.  It makes more sense to keep it operable or near operable in the meantime.  UP has a place to store it and she is still an attraction in her own right.

Nor is there any reason to think that the UP will continue to have two operating steamers just b/c for years they had two running.  Only two had been restored (or never retired).  Now, one more loco has been restored.  Whatever costs the UP incurred to restore 4014 are fixed at this point.  The 3985 will not change that one iota.

When you're bored, check out UNPs current stock price.  Business is good.

I believe it was former UP Chairman Jim Young that was interested in the idea of a triple-header … 4014/3985/844. Lance Fritz doesn't share that enthusiasm. He was interviewed by Trains Magazine,  and while some folks took his remarks as doom for the steam program, I read them to be that he was simply going to carefully examine all of Union Pacific's operations … as is his job. He seemed indifferent about Heritage Operations, not adverse to it.

I feel Senior VP Moore is key to the program. So, his remarks at Ogden over the weekend are notable. Even Bob Krieger, who was part of the 3985 right from the start, seemed kinda resigned.

But, who knows? Maybe the actual hard decision has not been made. People change their minds, too. I sure hope 3985 runs again. She can be the next main project in the steam shop. They've made investments there.

Casey Jones2 posted:

But..but he said 3985 was next...infact he had parts made up for it! 

I didn't know that. They made parts for 3985, even before 4014 was done? Can you link me to Moore's comments?

I know that he had been saying in the past that the issue of 3985 would be "evaluated" after 4014 is done.

Jim

Casey Jones2 posted:

The person to watch is the new former CN PSR (Precision Scheduled Railroading) officer—Jim Vena. He now heads up UP’s entire PSR conversion—Unified Plan 2020— as Chief Operating Officer. PSR has no room for slow pokey trains...just ask CSX or NS...or CP.

Railroading?  Scheduled?  .......  Ok, I'll stop laughing now.  Precision scheduled?   ......   I can't stop laughing.  Should be a short timetable; whatever, whenever, unless, should about cover everything.  

Oil and water mix together much better.

EBT Jim posted:
Casey Jones2 posted:

But..but he said 3985 was next...infact he had parts made up for it! 

I didn't know that. They made parts for 3985, even before 4014 was done? Can you link me to Moore's comments?

I know that he had been saying in the past that the issue of 3985 would be "evaluated" after 4014 is done.

Jim

Don't recall where it was said, but it was to the effect that whatever parts being reproduced that were common to both locomotives, enough extras were built to cover the 3985 as well.

---PCJ

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Casey Jones2 posted:

...PSR has no room for slow pokey trains...just ask CSX or NS...or CP.

LOL! What a joke.

PSR has little to do with actually moving trains. It has a LOT to do with moving the stock price up. It makes things look good on paper, but out in the real world it's a totally different story.

I have read about a dozen articles about PSR in various trade publications. The word "customer" did not appear in ANY of them. PSR is nothing more than going back to the old railroad method of operating. That's where you tell your customer, "I don't care if you need switched on Mondays and Thursdays, our crews will be there to switch you on Wednesdays and Saturdays! Deal with it!"

PSR = Pretty Sad Railroading 

Rich Melvin

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