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85 replies

LED Headlight replacement for MTH locomotives.

Marty FitzhenryMarty FitzhenryOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

 

 

Over the past years I have done many DCS upgrades.  Several people wanted bright white LEDs in headlights and backup lights.  My good friend Locolawyer is the guy I blame the most for this request.  Recently I have had members ask me to throw something on the forum instructing how it is done.  Very simple and very cheap to do.  On PS2 and PS32 boards the wires for the front headlight are light blue and purple.  Light blue coming from the number 5 pin on the 12 pin connector and the purple comes from the 2 pin on the 12 pin connector.  The rear lighting is a light green wire from pin 4 on the 12 pin connector and the purple from pin 2 on the 12 pin connector.  On front and back lighting, follow the purple wire to where your lights plug in.  The purple  is the hot wire and the corresponding wire that you need to put your resistor in on the light side of the plug.  Cut the wire and insert a 560 OHM 1/2 or 1/4 watt resistor.  Next cut the bulb off the wires and connect the longest lead from the LED to the other end of the resistor.  The long lead is plus.  Connect the other wire (negative) to the ground side and you now have LED headlight/backup lights.  I will outline this a bit better with a few pictures.

 

led3 014

 

The photo above shows left to right a section of 3/64 heat shrink, a section of 3/32 heat shrink, next a 3mm bright white LED.  This is Lionel p/n 6102045300, and a 560 OHM 1/2 watt resistor.

 

 

lled4 014

 

Above is the resistor I used.  You can buy what you need at many locations and they are very inexpensive.  No polarity is needed.

 

 

led12 019

 

 

Above is a front MTH conversion showing the light blue and purple wires used in the front headlight.  This is the original incandescent light from the upgrade kit.

 

 

led4 010

 

This shows the finished product without the shrink to show you the path of the purple wire to the resistor then to the LED.

 

 

 

 

led9 002

 

 

This photo shows the final product with heat shrink installed.

 

 

led9 013

 

 

This shows before and after.  You are out about 20 minutes of your time and about two bucks.  If you like the LED look, anyone can do it with no special skills.  The LED I used was from Lionel and the resistor from a local parts store.  You can use any manufacturer of the products.  I did some testing with these a long time ago with MTH R&D and the correct resistor we came up with was a 510 OHM.  You can go down to that if they are available to you.

 

 

Locolawyer 024

 

This is an MTH PS1 upgraded Hudson for Locolawyer.

 

 

Locolawyer 040

 

The rear of the Locolawyer Hudson.

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  • Parts needed to convert to a LED headlight/backup light.: Left to right. One length of 3/64 heat shrink tubing, next one length of 3/32 heat shrink tubing, next a 3mm bright white LED, and a 560OHM 1/2 watt resistor.
  • lled4 014
  • led12 019
  • led4 010
  • led9 002
  • led9 002
  • led9 013
  • Locolawyer 024
  • Locolawyer 040
Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry
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G GGGOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by John H:

Weren't Protosound headlights run on 1.5 volts?

Only Diesel engines with access to the PS-1 board.  RK Steam engine with the PS-1 board in the tender used track voltage 18V bulbs for the headlight.  Premier Steam with a Constant Voltage board in the engine used 6V bulbs.  G

gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

You can use any LED for the headlight, not just bright white.  On many, I use the warm white, especially for steamers.  If you want more than one light, you can drive a bunch of LED's off a single lighting output, the factory has a number of engines with three 60ma bulbs on the headlight circuit.  A white LED with a 560 ohm resistor draws less than 10ma, you could put eighteen of them on the headlight circuit and it would be less load than the stock incandescent bulbs.  Also, if you want brighter lights, you can go down to as low as 220 ohms safely, that gets you up to around 17-18 ma for each LED.

Last edited by gunrunnerjohn
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

To be clear, they are different!  Marty is talking about PS2 locomotives.

 

As George says, TMCC puts out half-wave DC in command mode and full wave AC in conventional mode.  Since the locomotive may drop into conventional mode with loss of signal, it's best to have a diode to protect the LED against reverse polarity as they don't have a high tolerance for that.  For TMCC I use a 470 ohm resistor and a 1N4003 diode.  Also, note that the lighting outputs of TMCC locomotives with an R2LC of C08 or later firmware is negative in respect to frame ground, keep that in mind.  That encompasses a large majority of the TMCC equipment.  Modular electronics with an R2LC of C07 or earlier, and any LCRU have a positive polarity lamp output.

 

Marty FitzhenryMarty FitzhenryOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

Bob, the markers already have a position on the 8 pin connector at position 4 and 6 on a diesel.  In most MTH steam locomotives the front markers are run by a CV board.  This board will control all the necessary lights that are required in the boiler.  

 

If you go to an LED headlight, you could add more into it.  On an upgrade, you need to be a bit creative on what you need.  The world of upgrades takes in many locomotives built by other makers.   MTH are easy, some others not so easy.

 

The LED is a great tool to get what you need for an upgrade.   Many locomotives made by other than MTH usually use some sort of CV board to control the headlight and front markers.

 

The MTH upgrade kit is very universal and a great bang for your buck.  I would suggest if you are thinking of doing a strange (non MTH) upgrade you may want to throw it out to members and I am sure you will find someone who has been there.  Doing upgrades are not fun, they are work.  

Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry
G GGGOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by TurtleLinez:

So the steps are....

 

1) Determine the direction of the current

2) From the power feed side, regardless if it is + or - wire in the diode, ring side toward resistor

3) Then the resistor, then the LED, the ground (may be + or -)

 

Correct?

Position of components not necessary.  Diode or resistor in any order.

 

The + side of the DC or Sine wave goes into the diode end without ring.  The ring side goes to the red lead of LED (anode or long lead).

 

For a Lionel with R2LC 08 or higher, that sends the negative half of the wave, that means the black AC Ground off the mother board goes to the red anode lead of the LED.

 

For MTH the positive is the PV purple wire for PS-2.  G

G GGGOGR Forum Member
Originally Posted by RJR:

So if I change headlight to an led, I can add led markers, firebox, and cab lights to the headlight circuit of a ps2 board.  Correct, Marty?

We have discussed this before in detail and the answer is yes.  You just do not have independent control.

 

I typically remove the CV board for folks that want engines dark and silent when not active.  So use of headlight return to power markers, HL and Cab or FB is workable.

 

There also is the method of using a relay and letting the HL circuit turn the relay on and off.  Which controls power to the CV board.  Your choice.

 

For a Premier engine rich with engine light features, your better off putting the board in the engine to capture those features.  G

Pine Creek RailroadPine Creek RailroadOGR Forum Member

Gentlemen,

   Guns upgraded my Tin Plate 249 Engine and Tender with ERR and all LED lighting, he did a fantastic job, it runs and looks great.  His hit squads have been trying to due me in sense I ask him to do the work on the Tin Plate however, I keep fighting them off however....     Great job on the 249 John, the LED lighting is especially nice.

PCRR/Dave

 The Gray Lionel 249 with the upgraded LED lighting and ERR, the white LED Reverse Tender light is also very well done, and works perfectly.

DSCN1423

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Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad
Pine Creek RailroadPine Creek RailroadOGR Forum Member

Guns,

    John I am very grateful for all the professional work you did upgrading the 249 to ERR with LED lighting, I thank you very much, that particular Tin Plate Engine and Tender are  now one of my favorite combo's, the picture above, really does not due the incredible LED lighting justice, it really sparkles, a job well done no doubt about it.

PCRR/Dave

 

DSCN1422

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Last edited by Pine Creek Railroad
gunrunnerjohngunrunnerjohnOGR Forum Member SUPPORTING MEMBERDIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

White LED's operate at around 3 volts, the PS/3 circuitry handles all that for you, you just need to make sure the LED is attached with the proper polarity. 

In this picture, you can see the larger triangular element inside the LED, that's the negative connection, (Cathode).  The smaller element is the positive connection, (Anode).  When you remove the old LED, take note of which color wires are connected to each, just connect the new LED the same way.

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willygeewillygeeOGR Forum Member
gunrunnerjohn posted:

You can use any LED for the headlight, not just bright white.  On may, I use the warm white, especially for steamers.  If you want more than one light, you can drive a bunch of LED's off a single lighting output, the factory has a number of engines with three 60ma bulbs on the headlight circuit.  A white LED with a 560 ohm resistor draws less than 10ma, you could put eighteen of them on the headlight circuit and it would be less load than the stock incandescent bulbs.  Also, if you want brighter lights, you can go down to as low as 220 ohms safely, that gets you up to around 17-18 ma for each LED.

Thanks Marty F and GRJ..just copied and pasted into my ps2/3 file

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