4x8 layout with O72 Wye Switches

As you already have O36 and O31, perhaps you would like this plan, with a figure-8 in the middle for more interest and excitement.  Larger border/space between the track and the edge of the board.

Or a bit more interest:

Thank you Ken!

Can you send a list of the tack pieces needed? Unfortunately I already got some O31 curves but depending on the cost it might be worth getting the 048 which would allow for potentially operating some more to scale engines in the future.

@GG14449 posted:

Thank you Ken!

Can you send a list of the tack pieces needed? Unfortunately I already got some O31 curves but depending on the cost it might be worth getting the 048 which would allow for potentially operating some more to scale engines in the future.

Sure, which version are you interested in?

Ken,

The second layout with the spur going through the figure 8 looks really nice. However, I am trying to figure out how best to incorporate a 164 log loader into the inner loop. The challenge there is obviously that track needs to be on either side of the log loader to allow for operation. I had a plan to have the inner loop with a spur that looked like it might work with the 164. Since you are the layout wizard do you have any ideas about how to do that?

@GG14449 posted:

Ken,

The second layout with the spur going through the figure 8 looks really nice. However, I am trying to figure out how best to incorporate a 164 log loader into the inner loop. The challenge there is obviously that track needs to be on either side of the log loader to allow for operation. I had a plan to have the inner loop with a spur that looked like it might work with the 164. Since you are the layout wizard do you have any ideas about how to do that?

Looking online I am reading that the log loader needs 14-15", center-rail to center-rail, between parallel tracks.

I'll give it some thought, the plan you are considering may need some revision:  OK, so how does this look to you, about 14.5" center-rail separation for the log loader.

Turnouts are 2xO60, 4xO36, 1xO31.

Wow, that is packing a lot of track into a small space. I think the 164 Log Loader is actually 11.25” wide and read the sweet spot is 12.75” for the track spacing. I don’t know if it’s possible to get those spurs squeezed a little closer

Just put my layout up for the holidays, I’m right at 14.5 center rail to center rail and it works great with the log loader. Which log car you use will make a difference as well.

@GG14449 posted:

Wow, that is packing a lot of track into a small space. I think the 164 Log Loader is actually 11.25” wide and read the sweet spot is 12.75” for the track spacing. I don’t know if it’s possible to get those spurs squeezed a little closer

Yes, a lot of track in a 4x8.  A traditional-type layout plan that "packs it in".

Maybe there are variations on the 164 loader?  I have no idea.  Do you have a Log Loader that you can set up and measure?  I can pull the two spurs in closer together.  12.75" for the track spacing might be from roadbed to roadbed, or between the ties, or from inner-rail to inner-rail, rather than center rail.

When building compact island model RRs I usually used 5' X 9' standard size folding ping pong tables.  They fold up like a portable spare single bed and have rollers to assist moving around the room and the two half deck faces have a safe distance between them.

Usually easier to manage than framed out typical 4' X 8'  train tables.

When folded up, two adults can even pick them up by the side catch to manage stepping down going into a garage from a living space.

The extra foot both ways are a game changer for O gauge RR track plans.

Additionally some real lumber yards with a work shop offer 4' X 8' train table shot together for very attractive pricing.  Beatty Lumber on State Road in Upper Darby, PA did this for years.

For compact layouts that can stay in place my favorite table top is 4' X 10' X 3/4" plywood. Or 5' X 10' X 1 1/8" hi density panels available from counter fabrication shops.

For my own fabrication shop I used two 5' X 10' X 1 1/8" topped tables positioned next to each other with a 2 ' space between then for a 12' X 10' work station.  Using adjustable feet the absolutely flat surfaces provided essentially a surface plate for accurate fitment.

I can grab a quick picture today to show the spacing if it helps.

I've been playing around with a lot of ideas to fit it in as well

This version has closer spacing of the parallel tracks, dimensions marked:

More dimensions of the wider spacing.  You MAY need to use regular Lionel track instead of FasTrack, to have the accessory closer to the rails, OR trim the roadbed on the straight sections to fit.  Dimensions for center-rail, outside-rail, and roadbed-to-roadbed.

@chabs posted:

I can grab a quick picture today to show the spacing if it helps.

I've been playing around with a lot of ideas to fit it in as well

Yes, please, a pic with a ruler to see the distance needed, and I will adjust to fit.   Let me know if you have other ideas!

Here is a pic of the log loader with spacing. Center rail to center rail approx 14.5". Edge of loader to spur (load side) 2 1/8". I've never had any luck with the non "stake" sided log cars with the log loader to work either most often the logs go flying off the car when they're loaded.

After looking at the track plan for awhile the one issue I could see is with not having a way to reverse the train it would be tough to reposition the car from one side to the other unless you have a short switcher and it's the first car on the train.

If any other measurements would help let me know. I'm trying to come up with some more interesting than my set up now hahahaha.

@chabs posted:

Here is a pic of the log loader with spacing. Center rail to center rail approx 14.5". Edge of loader to spur (load side) 2 1/8". I've never had any luck with the non "stake" sided log cars with the log loader to work either most often the logs go flying off the car when they're loaded.

After looking at the track plan for awhile the one issue I could see is with not having a way to reverse the train it would be tough to reposition the car from one side to the other unless you have a short switcher and it's the first car on the train.

If any other measurements would help let me know. I'm trying to come up with some more interesting than my set up now hahahaha.

Right, I figure for one of the spurs, the loco will need to drop it off, then run around and push it into the spur.

That is super-helpful, 14.5 center rail spacing!!  No need to trim the roadbed!  Great!

Thanks!

Ken and Chabs,

thank you both. You two are clearly way more knowledgeable about this than I am and will make this process a lot easier for me.

@GG14449 posted:

Ken and Chabs,

thank you both. You two are clearly way more knowledgeable about this than I am and will make this process a lot easier for me.

Welcome!  So if you are satisfied with the plan with the wider spacing, I will get some info on track sections needed by email.

Tom,

I would love to go bigger than the 4x8. I don't know if you can tell from the photo I posted but I only have a few inches of space on either side of the 4x8 when it's folded down. There is no room to add another foot or even half a foot of table space on either side. If I added a foot away from the wall I wouldn't be able to fold down the layout with our cars still parked in the garage. Maybe in the future I will move into a house with an extra room or larger garage which will let me expand but I'm doing the best with what is available now(and have to accept the limits).

@GVDobler posted:

They also like little people and animals. They have them ride in creative places on the train.

My twin girls could probably have started a fantasy zoo by now with all the animal passengers my trains have carried.  Unicorns, lions, monkeys, manatees, a dragon, countless Japanese critters....

And they don't just hitch a ride in gondolas.  They sit atop the cabs, climb onto flatcars and span between passenger cars.

Another thing I did was to buy a few cheap metal shells from eBay (old PW loco shells are dirt cheap) and strip them, then give them to the girls to paint however they pleased.  I'll then load them up on a spare Scot chassis or something and let er' rip!  The girls love watching their own handiwork haul the fantasy critters to the zoo.

Have fun!

I don't know if this would be doable, due to reach/access.  The idea is that the blue sections are removable, to drop back in when the layout is down.  However, you may not be able to reach back to access these sections.

If you can reach from just one side, you could have a spur rather than a siding.

Here’s what I was able to throw together as a surprise for me boys Christmas. I got everything used and a friend gave me all the dept 56 buildings. The gondola is hand cracked and was my toy when I was a child. My kids love it. This will be temporary and when we take down the Christmas decorations I’ll start working on the more permanent layout with my oldest.

Merry Christmas!

Looks awesome! Well done! Bet your boys loved it 😁

The boys do love it and we’ve been having some layout time everyday since Christmas. It’s a great activity during the pandemic. I got the uncoupling track to work so they’ve even started some operations.

In a few weeks we’ll take down the temporary Christmas layout and start on something more permanent that I can fold up.

I have to say that running two trains at the same time is very loud. My original plan was to lay a sheet of .5 inch Homasote soundboard on top of the plywood but each time I ordered it and went to pick it up, I was told it was out of stock.

Fastrack can be loud, depending on the surface it's on and the speed of the trains running on it. It looks like the track is directly on top of the plywood in your pictures, which is pretty much the worst case scenario. Putting something in between the track and the tabletop should help. I haven't used homasote, but carpet padding and felt have both worked well for me. I've also read good things about indoor/outdoor carpet.

Since you have young kids and they (probably) like to run the trains pretty fast, you should mange your expectations You may not get as much noise reduction as someone who runs trains at more prototypical speeds since speed is a big part of the noise.

My advice would be to pay particular attention to where the manual switches are in relation to the edges of the table.  Kids will only flip the ones at the very edges.  Also, you can choose to cluster your switches as close as possible for one operator with short arms, or spread them apart for many little hands.

The 4x8' sample below clusters all the control as tightly as possible to one operator position.   With the switches mainlined, it is a two-toddler layout.  The straight section is an electric uncoupler so bigger kids can propel cars in any direction.  The indent at the bottom is made from the curves that come with the switches.  You could always replace it with 35" of straight as at the top.  I did make some judicious use of O31 to keep the width within 48".

With kids, it may be desirable to have spots in the center of the layout to store trains out of their reach.

Also, any available toy houses, army guys, Hotwheels, etc. should be included.

I drilled a little hole to hold the bottle of smoke - kids love doing that stuff too.

Update: here a quick update on the layout. We’ve moved on from the Christmas theme, put down some grass, added a few switches, building, tunnels and grass. Unfortunately the limitations of using Fastrack on a 4x8 layout are really becoming apparent. I’m seriously considering removing the center Fastrack loop and replacing it with MTH Realtrax because the 031 Realtrax fits so much more track in a similar space. Another option would be using classic O Guage tube  track which could be a cheaper option. Any advice or suggestions would be appreciated.

what about this one?

Sal, that looks like a lot of fun. Unfortunately, I’m constrained to a 4x8. Is that realtrax or O31 tube?

Lionel does make 031 Fastrack curves...

Id like to have something more compact, but we only have 072 full/half curves, some tiny straights to jam things together, and some other bits. The other day we ran my 2019 MTH chessie sd40-2 on the living room carpet, and took up the ENTIRE livingroom floor, with a 30 inch lighted bridge, and a self crossing figure8 sort of deal with as much track and curves as we could lay in, along with a trestle system (cause bridges aint x intersections!!).

The kids had a blast, and loaded up every single square inch of old lionel freight cars with lego people, unicorns, dinosaurs, lego dinosaurs, you name it. I have to chop up some wood and install in the basement something more permanent, especially with my allegheny coming in the mail, but for general fun? cant beat fastrack on a regular carpet!

Now to get  bunch of o42 fastrack curves, so they can continue to play in the living room and max out their space! It used to be in the kids room, but the living room has more space, and foot stools to go around, tables to go under, that kinda stuff. Like when we were young putzing with the old stuff.