566 Whistling Billboard help

H'm. Pics?

HI check out this web site documentation!

American Flyer Whistle 566 Service Instructions & Parts List -

American Flyer Whistle 566 - TrainDR

Alan

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

H'm. Pics?

https://traindr.com/accessorie...n-flyer-whistle-566/

@Alan Mancus posted:

HI check out this web site documentation!

American Flyer Whistle 566 Service Instructions & Parts List -

American Flyer Whistle 566 - TrainDR

Alan

Thanks Alan, but there is no info there.  Also note where he says: "The 566 whistle was produced from 1951 to 1955 and had a green metal base." is not accurate.  Mine is very clearly stamped; JUL 1950.  I am the original owner.

It just stopped working.  At first, I assumed It was the button, but no.  I have connected the yellow to the 18 V post and the black to the base post.   Lights work, but when I touch the green wire to the base post -- nothing.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Can you send pics of your billboard, particularly the motor? 

Mitch

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Can you send pics of your billboard, particularly the motor? 

Mitch

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

For comparison, here is a picture of my untouched original factory wiring. I am the original owner, it is a 1950.

Tom, one more thing you can check if you have not already done it. The Field is 1.1ohms and the armature is 1.4ohms. So metering between the yellow and green wires should be 2.5ohms resistance.

@AmFlyer posted:

For comparison, here is a picture of my untouched original factory wiring. I am the original owner, it is a 1950.

The only thing that is not original on mine is the yellow grounding wire running to the yellow brush tube I added yesterday.

@AmFlyer posted:

Tom, one more thing you can check if you have not already done it. The Field is 1.1ohms and the armature is 1.4ohms. So metering between the yellow and green wires should be 2.5ohms resistance.

Thanks Tom, I will check that in the AM.  I would hate to have to take the shell off, the twisted tabs have never been straighten.  OTOH, I can see I should get new mounting bushings for it.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

As AmFlyer suggests and look for a broken wire on the field coil. You may have to dismantle the assembly to really see it.

@Tom Stoltz posted:

https://traindr.com/accessorie...n-flyer-whistle-566/

Thanks Alan, but there is no info there.  Also note where he says: "The 566 whistle was produced from 1951 to 1955 and had a green metal base." is not accurate.  Mine is very clearly stamped; JUL 1950.  I am the original owner.

<snip>

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Your photo indicates (viewing through the illumination slot) that it is a circus whistling billboard which indicates that it is a No. 577 rather than a No. 566. Being assembled in 1950 makes sense.

Another outside possibility is that some foreign object may have been sucked into the whistle body and is restricting the rotor.

Good luck!

Bob

Bob, that is my billboard you were looking at. Mine is a 577. I made the assumption that the one Tom Stoltz has is also a 577, but even if not , with lights and three wires and a 1950 date it would be identical to a 577.

@AmFlyer posted:

between the yellow and green wires should be 2.5ohms resistance.

2.5 ohms it is.  So I guess no broken wire in the field coil.  That also confirms that the yellow and greens wires are good.  What else should I look for?  Such a simple motor acting like it doesn't get any power yet there appears to be continuity every where I can think of.

@Bob Bubeck posted:

Your photo indicates (viewing through the illumination slot) that it is a circus whistling billboard which indicates that it is a No. 577 rather than a No. 566. Being assembled in 1950 makes sense.

Another outside possibility is that some foreign object may have been sucked into the whistle body and is restricting the rotor.

Good luck!

Bob

Bob, mine has the Santa Fe PA on the billboard.  You can also see the date stamp in one of my photos -- JUL 1950.

I don't think anything is restricting the rotor because the armature easily rotates by hand.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Missing or defective brush spring?

I don't know much about these but I am assuming it is a series wound motor. I would disconnect the wire going to  a brush and put power there and ground the other side. So all you have is the motor hooked up. Power from xformer to brush thru armature out other brush to field out of field to ground. This should tell you if motor is good.

The billboard is a very simple item. Based on the fact that the armature spins freely by hand we can assume there is not a mechanical or binding issue. The 2.5ohm resistance reading between the yellow and green wires tells us there is continuity from the power wire, through the brush springs, brush, commutator segment, armature winding, field and back to the return wire. It also confirms the design value of 2.5ohms for the commutator plus field DC resistance. The only thing it does not tell us is the quality of the contact of the brushes on the commutator. Since an ohm meter uses a very small amount of current for measurement there could be a high resistance contact between the brushes and commutator that only shows up when the motor tries to draw 2A to 4A to begin spinning. After it is spinning it only needs about 1/2A. My next step would be to replace the brushes, springs, and clean the commutator and slots. There is nothing else I can think of that would cause the motor not to run.

@AmFlyer posted:

The billboard is a very simple item. Based on the fact that the armature spins freely by hand we can assume there is not a mechanical or binding issue. The 2.5ohm resistance reading between the yellow and green wires tells us there is continuity from the power wire, through the brush springs, brush, commutator segment, armature winding, field and back to the return wire. It also confirms the design value of 2.5ohms for the commutator plus field DC resistance. The only thing it does not tell us is the quality of the contact of the brushes on the commutator. Since an ohm meter uses a very small amount of current for measurement there could be a high resistance contact between the brushes and commutator that only shows up when the motor tries to draw 2A to 4A to begin spinning. After it is spinning it only needs about 1/2A. My next step would be to replace the brushes, springs, and clean the commutator and slots. There is nothing else I can think of that would cause the motor not to run.

Tom, after reading your post I hooked it up and also attached the green wire to the BP.  I used a small screw driver to reach in and turn the armature, it started!  Tried that over and over and found I always had to give it a 'push start'.  However, sometimes the armature would only spin a couple of times and stop.  Sometimes, no matter how many times I gave it a 'shove', it wouldn't start.  While other times it would run just fine (after a push).

I think that is saying one of the commutator segments mat not be good, but I was surprised it would run at all if one segments was bad.  When I had it apart, I checked the brushes and springs -- brushes are less than half used, meaning I don't think they would be a problem.  While I was at it, I cleaned the commutator segments.  I could try stretching the springs a bit to increase pressure.

What do you think now?

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

More spring pressure could help. I have stretched springs on some steam engine motors with some minor improvement, it could work. The cause also could be a bad armature, but I would work on the springs before assuming the worst about the armature. A half worn pair of brushes greatly reduces the pressure of the brushes on the commutator.

@AmFlyer posted:

More spring pressure could help. I have stretched springs on some steam engine motors with some minor improvement, it could work. The cause also could be a bad armature, but I would work on the springs before assuming the worst about the armature. A half worn pair of brushes greatly reduces the pressure of the brushes on the commutator.

Well I'll be dillyed, spring pressure it was.  Thank you Tom, I changed out the brushes for new ones and it works!  With the length left of the original brushes, I never would have guessed that to be the problem.  I have learned something today.

Thanks again Tom,

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

It always feels great when the repairs are successful. Enjoy the whistle, I have always liked Gilbert's billboard whistles.

Whare does the extra yellow wire on the left go?

Mitch

@M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Whare does the extra yellow wire on the left go?

Mitch

Mitch, if you look close at Tom's you will see a blob of solder on the left tab at the same location as my 'extra' yellow wire.  That is a grounding wire which runs from the yellow tube tab straight down to the bolt that holds the tube assembly and field coil to the base of the motor.  There is an eyelet to solder the other end of the wire that the bolt runs through.  You can see it on my 566.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

@Tom Stoltz posted:

Mitch, if you look close at Tom's you will see a blob of solder on the left tab at the same location as my 'extra' yellow wire.  That is a grounding wire which runs from the yellow tube tab straight down to the bolt that holds the tube assembly and field coil to the base of the motor.  There is an eyelet to solder the other end of the wire that the bolt runs through.  You can see it on my 566.

Tom Stoltz

in Maine

Ahhhh!  Gotcha.

Mitch