Skip to main content

Rocky Mountaineer posted:
Green Bay & Western posted:

How are the sounds of these 3RD RAIL engines compared to the legacy sounds of Lionel? 

This can be a point of debate... depending upon whether you prefer absolute fidelity to the prototype or a bit of "artistic license" in favor of great sound.  From what I understand, we're at the mercy of ERR on the sound front.  And Lionel tends to license "n-1" or "n-2" generation sounds to ERR -- instead keeping the ultimate locomotive sounds for its own Legacy brand products.  Here's a link to current ERR sound boards via locomotive series... and you can be the judge.

http://www.electricrr.com/purchaseRailSnd.htm

Some are real winners , and some leave a LOT to be desired .  The SD-series and GP-series sound boards seem to have great presence.  So folks planning on getting an SD40-2 from 3rd Rail should be quite happy. 

OTOH, I find the sounds of the E8/E9, F3, and FM-series locomotives to be somewhat lackluster (based on the sound-files featured on the ERR website).  I have two 3rd Rail Canadian Pacific E8's on order from last year, and the word is production has slipped to 2017.  I'm OK with the slippage, but please, please, PLEASE 3rd Rail... PLEASE choose a diesel sound package with modern-day presence.  It's time for these companies to retire the "sick cow" diesel horn sounds once and for all -- whether it's prototypical or not.  Other folks may have different opinions on the matter, so YMMV.

David

2 Rail models will get QSI Titan DCC sound. Hopefully they will come from the factory with the Q3 ET sound files as they make a huge difference. Here is an HO model with the 645 E3 prime mover as an example:

645 posted:
AGHRMatt posted:

It would be nice to see them done in CNW livery, but then my wallet would take another hit. I can't recall which CNW purchased and which came as acquisitions from other roads, but some had dynamic brakes, while others did not. Maybe Andrew (FalconService) can clear this up.

All CNW SD40-2's were purchased new from EMD and all had dynamic brakes. You are probably thinking of the secondhand SD45's CNW bought in 1983-1984. The original CNW SD45's lacked dynamic brakes but all the second handers had dynamics.

C&NW diesel roster

You can also look for a copy of the 320 page book "Diesels of the Chicago & North Western" by Paul Withers. Morning Sun Books has 4 volumes that cover CNW Diesels in color as well.

Morning Sun Books - CNW Power

Thanks for the info.

With 4 Atlas SD40's (2 Wheeling & Lake Erie and 2 CSX) scheduled  for a 2nd quarter 2017 release and now these SD40-2's from Sunset Models (Fall 2017) next year is going to be a great year for vintage EMD 6-axle power for me. I wouldn't be surprised if Sunset get their models delivered before Atlas. I hope I'm wrong.

The upcoming California Zephyr sets from Atlas will tell me a lot about how far they have progressed getting products delivered on time. They still have to make good on F3's and F7's. The latter was supposed to be delivered late 4th quarter 2015. The F3's will need to be delivered when the CZ sets arrive.

As far as sounds go, the best sounding EMD645 comes from ESU LokSound. This absolutely obliterates LEGACY RailSounds and MTH ProtoSound 3 for SD40's/-2's.

AGHRMatt posted:

It would be nice to see them done in CNW livery, but then my wallet would take another hit. I can't recall which CNW purchased and which came as acquisitions from other roads, but some had dynamic brakes, while others did not. Maybe Andrew (FalconService) can clear this up.

CNW SD40-2

CNW SD40-2 without Dynamic Brakes

Top photo is an SD40-2. Bottom photo is straight SD40.   no Dash-2

SPSF posted:
AGHRMatt posted:

It would be nice to see them done in CNW livery, but then my wallet would take another hit. I can't recall which CNW purchased and which came as acquisitions from other roads, but some had dynamic brakes, while others did not. Maybe Andrew (FalconService) can clear this up.

 

CNW SD40-2 without Dynamic Brakes

Top photo is an SD40-2. Bottom photo is straight SD40.   no Dash-2

Thanks. Didn't even realize what I was looking at.

"...but certainly one of, if not the most significant locomotive of the past 50 years. "

The EMD "40" series locomotives:
Indeed the best all-around diesel locomotive EVER produced! If the Roundhouse Foreman gave me my pick of engines to operate my train, a consist of SD40-2's or GP40's would be my pick, hands down!

Last edited by Big Jim
catnap posted:

With 4 Atlas SD40's (2 Wheeling & Lake Erie and 2 CSX) scheduled  for a 2nd quarter 2017 release and now these SD40-2's from Sunset Models (Fall 2017) next year is going to be a great year for vintage EMD 6-axle power for me. I wouldn't be surprised if Sunset get their models delivered before Atlas. I hope I'm wrong.

 

My money is on Scott. I have zero faith in Atlas delivering an engine within 2 years of the original target.

There is no way those -3 cabs are getting done. I prefer the standard cabs of the -2's anyway.

Delivery is scheduled for Fall 2017. I have 2 Wheeling & Lake Erie SD40-2's reserved. If 20 reservations aren't met for this road name then I will get 2 CSX. I wonder how long we have until all of the reservations are counted and production commences...

Hot Water posted:
Swafford posted:

What about the CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds?

Regards, Stafford

What about them? The cab and low short hood are completely different.

As you are aware, it would require an entirely new cab and short hood to be prototypical. That is what I like about these engine, very different!

Regards, Swafford

 

Swafford posted:
Hot Water posted:
Swafford posted:

What about the CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds?

Regards, Stafford

What about them? The cab and low short hood are completely different.

As you are aware, it would require an entirely new cab and short hood to be prototypical. That is what I like about these engine, very different!

Regards, Swafford

 

Well maybe for a nominal fee, Scott Mann would be happy to make you 20 of that specific model.

Hot Water posted:
Swafford posted:
Hot Water posted:
Swafford posted:

What about the CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds?

Regards, Stafford

What about them? The cab and low short hood are completely different.

As you are aware, it would require an entirely new cab and short hood to be prototypical. That is what I like about these engine, very different!

Regards, Swafford

 

Well maybe for a nominal fee, Scott Mann would be happy to make you 20 of that specific model.

 you never know!

Last edited by Swafford
Swafford posted:

What about the CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds?

Regards, Swafford

CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds

The "SpongeBob".

Modular tooling for the cab and nose would facilitate this model easily, as well as high hoods, snoots, original and clean cab hood lengths, and possibly even Canadian safety cab versions.  Plus allow for nose light positioning where appropriate.  The nose lengths (and height) are as much a road specific detail on these models as bell and horn locations, or light packages.

I realize each nose requires an additional tool, and that of course costs money.  In a short run environment, the nose and cab parts could be shared across many additional future models.  Or possibly the sd40-2 may be the one model whose appeal is broad enough to warrant a different mindset about production numbers and tooling investment.  Especially if the nose and cab parts could be used again in the future.

Or possibly some enterprising soul will start a new cottage industry a la Cannon and Co. in HO, supplying aftermarket parts to make these models more detailed and specific.

Jim

rdunniii posted:
Swafford posted:

What about the CSX SD40-3 Rebuilds?

Regards, Swafford

 

Here ya go.

https://www.shapeways.com/prod...le?optionId=57827007

May sound expensive but it would cost Scott $5000+ for the tool so he would have to sell at least 45 just to recoup the cost of the tool.

I'm sure that Swafford will foot the bill for this effort - just send him the invoice.

Last edited by mwb

Folks, I am in China working on the SD7/9 inspection. This factory treats these projects like brass projects. Each road has a detail specific list of requirements and application of brass details. Each paint scheme and lettering scheme is hand applied. It's an expensive but necessary process to give you the road specific model details you seek.

I will be meeting with my production manager and tooling manager in the coming days. I am well aware of the need for some modifications of the hood to give all roads a chance for production, with accuracy. That said, I will try my best to incorporate these designs in the SD40-2 project from the beginning so that we can have a project we can make now and in the future as demand dictates. It's a numbers game. There's a lot of up front costs and financial compromises to keep everyone happy. Factory, Customers, and ultimately you. We have a lot of fixed expenses that need to be met, and we try to balance everyone's needs to make this work.

Over the years, we have released many different models that other importers have been producing. We don't see an affect on one another, at least I am not aware of it. Brass models costing 3 X more still sell in their niche.

So we don't feel we are treading on other's project announcements. We just do what we are asked to do by our customers. So don't conjecture that we are out to get anyone. We just do what we do best.

In the 2 Rail sound arena, we have been working behind the scenes with QSI personnel and Josh of QSI solutions to produce a truly outstanding sound set for 2 Rail. The E8/E9 sounds will feature stereo sound and possibly 2 separate prime mover sounds as the E8s had these. To do this Q3 level of sound we needed a fast loader to ensure we could make last minute changes if needed during production. This has now happened.  So 2 Rail E8/E9 customers will get this level of sound, as will future runs.

We have implemented in all journal bearings, ball bearing inserts in the truck side frames. 3 Axle trucks are sprung, 2 axle trucks are fixed in our diesels. This is now standard equipment for SD79 and future diesel productions. The results are outstanding. Very smooth, friction free starts. Quiet and smooth operation. I am really pleased with what I have seen so far.

So thanks again for your support and enthusiasm. Keep the suggestions coming, and we will do our best to support you in your hobby now and in the future.

Scott Mann - China

 

 

Last edited by sdmann
moonlicht posted:

scott

any change you are doing SD45 in this run 

The EMD SD45 model is COMPLETELY different than the EMD SD40-2!

or is there a second run for this model

Second run of SD40-2 models?

i believe the SD45 is different comare to a SD40

Ya think! Besides, Scott is NOT offering the SD40. Only the SD40-2 has been announced, at this time. Please remember that the SD40-2 model has different 3-axle trucks (except for Contrail of course) than the older SD40/SD45s.

Cor

 

sdmann posted:

Folks, I am in China working on the SD7/9 inspection. This factory treats these projects like brass projects. Each road has a detail specific list of requirements and application of brass details. Each paint scheme and lettering scheme is hand applied. It's an expensive but necessary process to give you the road specific model details you seek.

I will be meeting with my production manager and tooling manager in the coming days. I am well aware of the need for some modifications of the hood to give all roads a chance for production, with accuracy. That said, I will try my best to incorporate these designs in the SD40-2 project from the beginning so that we can have a project we can make now and in the future as demand dictates. It's a numbers game. There's a lot of up front costs and financial compromises to keep everyone happy. Factory, Customers, and ultimately you. We have a lot of fixed expenses that need to be met, and we try to balance everyone's needs to make this work.

Over the years, we have released many different models that other importers have been producing. We don't see an affect on one another, at least I am not aware of it. Brass models costing 3 X more still sell in their niche.

So we don't feel we are treading on other's project announcements. We just do what we are asked to do by our customers. So don't conjecture that we are out to get anyone. We just do what we do best.

In the 2 Rail sound arena, we have been working behind the scenes with QSI personnel and Josh of QSI solutions to produce a truly outstanding sound set for 2 Rail. The E8/E9 sounds will feature stereo sound and possibly 2 separate prime mover sounds as the E8s had these. To do this Q3 level of sound we needed a fast loader to ensure we could make last minute changes if needed during production. This has now happened.  So 2 Rail E8/E9 customers will get this level of sound, as will future runs.

We have implemented in all journal bearings, ball bearing inserts in the truck side frames. 3 Axle trucks are sprung, 2 axle trucks are fixed in our diesels. This is now standard equipment for SD79 and future diesel productions. The results are outstanding. Very smooth, friction free starts. Quiet and smooth operation. I am really pleased with what I have seen so far.

So thanks again for your support and enthusiasm. Keep the suggestions coming, and we will do our best to support you in your hobby now and in the future.

Scott Mann - China

 

 

This is great news Scott! You are addressing the few issues I had. Kudos for making continual improvements.

Last edited by jonnyspeed

Cannap  - I think you will find a big difference between the older model QSI decoder used in AtlasO diesels and the later design  QSI Titan  loaded with a Q3 sound set.  You will also experience better starting / low speed performance than the Atlas model due to Sunset's single motor drive setup.  For owners of earlier 2 rail Sunset 3rd Rail diesels you may want to consider investing in a QSI Programmer ( possibly with  friends in your area) so you can replace the Q2 sound set with a Q3 one (available on the QSI Solutions web site).  I did that for my E7's and was please with the improved sound and operation.  

Last edited by Keystoned Ed
Keystoned Ed posted:

Cannap  - I think you will find a big difference between the older model QSI decoder used in AtlasO diesels and the later design  QSI Titan  loaded with a Q3 sound set.  You will also experience better starting / low speed performance than the Atlas model due to Sunset's single motor drive setup.  For owners of earlier 2 rail Sunset 3rd Rail diesels you may want to consider investing in a QSI Programmer ( possibly with  friends in your area) so you can replace the Q2 sound set with a Q3 one (available on the QSI Solutions web site).  I did that for my E7's and was please with the improved sound and operation.  

Ed - I've had very little success with QSI decoders, oth Titan and older.  No problems with the sound but HUGE problems running them in consists.  For some reason if you have a 2, 3 or 4 unit lashup not all of the locomotives will respond to commands in a reliable manner.   If you have a four unit ABBA consist only 2 or 3 locos will respond to function commands.  Once that happens (and is is virtually every time) you have to turn the power off and on to get them back in sync.

Last edited by Jim Scorse
Bill McBride posted:

Jonathan-

How many Chessie units are you ordering? You said one up above but you could probably use 3 to 4...

 

I think he wants a few Wheeling & Lake Erie units, as the rest of you should. At least 18 of you since I have the first 2 reserved...

Keystoned Ed posted:

Cannap  - I think you will find a big difference between the older model QSI decoder used in AtlasO diesels and the later design  QSI Titan  loaded with a Q3 sound set.  You will also experience better starting / low speed performance than the Atlas model due to Sunset's single motor drive setup.  For owners of earlier 2 rail Sunset 3rd Rail diesels you may want to consider investing in a QSI Programmer ( possibly with  friends in your area) so you can replace the Q2 sound set with a Q3 one (available on the QSI Solutions web site).  I did that for my E7's and was please with the improved sound and operation.  

These 4 SD40's are preordered and are due 2nd quarter of 2017 so they'll probably come with the latest QSI soundsets.  I'm planning on getting a programmer anyway.

I won't attempt to mix a China drive with a canon motor so the Atlas and Sunset models will not run together.

Add Reply

Post

OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
800-980-OGRR (6477)
www.ogaugerr.com

×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×