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I'm hoping someone can answer this.. 

I am wanting to buy the MTH DCS Remote Control Set [50-1001].  I was looking online and there are a few older/used ones, but the state they're the "OLDER" non-USB version.  They have a 9-pin serial plug instead.  I know what both of those things are.

My question is - Besides the non-USB, does the Older (pre-2010) version of DCS 50-1001 have any performance or capability differences than the "Current" version of DCS?

Thanks!! 

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Besides the non-USB, does the Older (pre-2010) version of DCS 50-1001 have any performance or capability differences than the "Current" version of DCS?

You might find the following helpful. From 226 page of The DCS Companion 3rd Edition:

TIU Revisions


DCS Book CoverThis and a whole lot more is all in “The DCS Companion 3rd Edition!"

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  • TIU Revisions
Last edited by Barry Broskowitz

UP SD70,

   Good information given here by both Guns and Barry, I will just add this to it, although I am not willing to purchase used DCS or Legacy equipment off E-Bay, I would purchase either of the units from an OGR member, right here on the Forum.  Before ever purchasing from E-Bay, I would ask any of the OGR members, if they might have one they are will to sell, at a reasonable rate.   I have never been jilted by an OGR member as of this date, we have great people here.

PCRR/Dave

Thanks for the clarification.  I now know I was looking at an older DCS system to purchase.  It was never used, so it has to be updated.  Do you think it is worth investing in?  I would only use it on small layout that I temporarily use for 2 months out of the year.  I know a lot of people said they have had trouble with the earlier version. 

The short answer is no, I would not buy an older unit. 

To draw it out. I have your layout. A 2 month Christmas layout. My reason for buying new was I didn’t want one more thing to troubleshoot. I also didn’t want to risk buying it and then spending full price on the new one anyway. I’m glad I did. There is enough to troubleshoot when DCS is working properly.  You’re saving the price of a few boxcars... IMO, it’s not worth the risk.

Last edited by Marty R

For me it would depend on the knowledge of the person selling it.  I have a Rev I that has been pretty good.   I did send it back once, but the cause for that was operator error.   The person I bought from was known to me,  an electronics guru, and was switching to legacy.   I knew if he said it was working I could believe him.  I would not pay for one on ebay or another auction site, but that's just me.  If a reputable hobby shop is selling it a reasonable price and telling you it works it should be okay.   If it is working properly it can be upgraded to the latest software.

Rev L or Rev I on it?   I didn't think Rev L came out that long ago, more like around six-seven years.

Simple question, does it have the USB port?  If so, it's a Rev. L, if not, it ain't!

I'm so tech deficient, I don't know what a USB Port looks like. Nothing on the TIU has the name USB Port on it. The bottom of the TIU definitely says Rev. L.

I'm reading the Operators Manual from cover to cover to the extent it relates to what I will use the DCS remote Control Set for.

When I hook the TIU to my two Z4000 transformers (one for the independently powered and interconnected 2 main lines, and the other for the independently powered 8 sidings), do connect the wires from the transformers to the fixed voltage or the variable voltage inputs on the TIU?

In answering the above question, please consider that I plan to continue to run Lionel Postwar and MTH Proto 1 locomotives (which DCS doesn't operate) as well as MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines (which the DCS will operate.

Arnold

My wife is more tech savvy than me, and she said there is no USB Port on my TIU. However, my TIU definitely has Rev. L on the bottom of it. The owner's manual entitled DCS Operator's Manual Fifth Edition says it was copyrighted in 2010.

Is it possible that a TIU could be a Rev. L version without the USB Port, which apparently is the case for my device?

The ones labeled ProtoSound 2 must have been early Rev. G.  I have a dead Rev. G in the closet, but it's labeled like the current ones with the DCS logo, so I don't know when they changed the logo.

This is from the forum, a for-sale ad from 2016, apparently a Rev. G.

Here's a current one from the MTH website.



Mine looks just like the one in the above picture on the bottom, but that short side is not the one with the USB Port, which is apparently on the short side not in view.

When I hook the TIU to my two Z4000 transformers (one for the independently powered and interconnected 2 main lines, and the other for the independently powered 8 sidings), do I connect the wires from the transformers to the fixed voltage, or the variable voltage, inputs on the TIU?

In answering the above question, please consider that I plan to continue to run Lionel Postwar and MTH Proto 1 locomotives (which DCS doesn't operate) as well as MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines (which the DCS Remote Control Set will operate).

Arnold

I would greatly appreciate it if someone could answer the above question.

IMO, the Owners Manual was not clear regarding this issue. Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari

For those interested, I may have found the answer on p. 103 of the operator's manual.

If one wants to run conventional, command or both, use the variable voltage channel on the TIU.

So, I guess that if you hook up the TIU for the DCS Remote Control Set and run a Postwar Lionel engine, you run it using the MTH Z4000 like you normally do, and the DCS set has no impact on it. Then, when you run an MTH Proto 3 locomotive using the DCS Remote, you turn the power up to 22 volts on the Z4000, and run the engine using the remote.

Is that correct?

Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari

firstly with what you’ve described with 2 Z-4000’s aka 4 channels of power you’ll want to take each Z-4000 output to a different TIU channel. As for the variable channels you can choose to use those to where their connected to control voltage or if you use the Z-4000 handles simply set the variable channels to fixed witch as it implies makes them operate like the fixed channels and allows power to flow through them with no restrictions. You also will want to power the TIU with a external power source so that it always has power otherwise fixed 1 must always be powered for any other channel to work.

another thing you could do so that current doesn’t have to flow through the TIU is to wire it in passive mode to add the DCS signal on the tracks but like I said doesn’t run the current through the TIU.

Thank you, Zachariah, for your reply.

Now, I wonder if I need two TIU units to run my Postwar (conventional) trains on the sidings on my layout with the DCS Remote Control Set hooked up.

The reason is that I can only connect two pairs of wires from one of the Z4000 transformers to the variable voltage inputs on the TIU. Those wires will be connected to the 2 main lines of my layout.

The other two pairs of wires from the other Z4000 that powers the sidings, would need to be connected to the fixed voltage inputs on the TIU. That would be fine for running the MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines that need 22 volts from the Z4000 to run them with the remote. But, a Postwar locomotive on a siding would fly off the train table if I ran it from the Z4000 (not the remote) at 22 volts.

Does that make sense?

Is the solution to simply run the Postwar engine on a siding using the Z4000 at a voltage substantially lower than 22 volts? Will that work if the 2 pairs of wires from the transformer are connected to the fixed voltage inputs on the TIU?

Arnold

There nothing wrong with running a post war train with the the TIU still in play. The power simply will go through the TIU it will add its signal witch the postwar engine won’t even know its there and you can operate it as usual. Hopefully that’s clear as mud.

On our old modular layout we had 3 loops 1 TIU and 2 z-4000. On our case the variable channels where set to fixed so if someone had a post war train to run throw it on and crack the handle. If its any sort of command put it on the track and raise to 18VAC. Then use the appropriate remote.

Arnold

Back to the ID of your TIU. If it is Rev L it HAS a USB port. Your last comment said it did not. John showed you a pic and the location to which you replied Thanks. My question to you is, IS it a Rev L with the USB port? All Rev L's that I have seen have a USB Port. If not it must be a REV I and you are reading the I as a L which it is not. After I have this answered I will proceed with connections.



I also am under the impression you have 2 loops inter connected but isolated with a yard of isolated spurs (powered from a third transformer (or a different one)).

Your TIU has to have power from an INPUT to Fixed Voltage ONE IN or you have to power it by the AUX PORT! If not the TIU will not work! Confirm what I have asked and I will explain or try to on how to hook everything up.

@zhubl posted:

There nothing wrong with running a post war train with the the TIU still in play. The power simply will go through the TIU it will add its signal witch the postwar engine won’t even know its there and you can operate it as usual. Hopefully that’s clear as mud.

On our old modular layout we had 3 loops 1 TIU and 2 z-4000. On our case the variable channels where set to fixed so if someone had a post war train to run throw it on and crack the handle. If its any sort of command put it on the track and raise to 18VAC. Then use the appropriate remote.

Understood, Zachariah, your comments are very helpful, thanks again. Arnold

@CurtisH posted:

Arnold

Back to the ID of your TIU. If it is Rev L it HAS a USB port. Your last comment said it did not. John showed you a pic and the location to which you replied Thanks. My question to you is, IS it a Rev L with the USB port? All Rev L's that I have seen have a USB Port. If not it must be a REV I and you are reading the I as a L which it is not. After I have this answered I will proceed with connections.

I also am under the impression you have 2 loops inter connected but isolated with a yard of isolated spurs (powered from a third transformer (or a different one)).

Your TIU has to have power from an INPUT to Fixed Voltage ONE IN or you have to power it by the AUX PORT! If not the TIU will not work! Confirm what I have asked and I will explain or try to on how to hook everything up.

Hi Curtis, the answer to your 1st question is Yes.  My TIU looks exactly the same as the one in GRJ's last picture, including the USB Port, so my TIU is, indeed, a Rev. L Version. I'm pleased with that because the signal for my current TIU is supposed to be stronger than that in the old one, and I need a strong signal because my layout is fairly long at 36 feet and goes around the walls in the playroom and laundery room in my basement.

Concerning my layout, you are correct, except that I have 2, not 3, Z4000 transformers hooked up to my layout. The 1st Z4000 controls both main line loops; each throttle controls one of those loops. The other Z4000 controls the 8 sidings; the left throttle controls sidings 1 through 4 using Atlas Heavy Duty Connectors for O Scale, and the right throttle controls sidings 5 through 8 using Atlas Heavy Duty Connectors. I have more than enough power thanks to these Z4000s.

Based on what you say about the Fixed Voltage ONE IN, I will connect one of the pairs of wires from one of the Z4000 transformers to the Fixed Voltage ONE IN, so the TIU gets power from that Z4000. When I do that, I hope that I can run a Postwar locomotive on the section of my layout controlled by that Z4000 throttle by changing the voltage (cracking the handle) using that Z4000 throttle handle. I would think that I can do that based on Zachariah's last reply. If this is not true, then I need to know what I need to do to run a Postwar engine on that section of my layout.

For most of my Postwar trains, I need to increase and decrease the voltage a little on  the transformer for the engines to navigate various sections of my layout.

By the way, I also bought a DCS Explorer    (# 50-1035) which will be delivered to me next week. I believe the DCS Explorer is essentially a TIU known as DCS Explorer Track Interface Unit, and trains are controlled by the DCS App on a smartphone, not a handheld remote.

I also have a DCS Remote Commander Set (# 50-1033) that I got 5 years ago and that I have never used. It came with an MTH set of trains.

One more thing which I don't think I mentioned before. I will not be using DCS to control my accessories and switch tracks, so I don't need the DCS AIU.

Also, I am fine with running my Postwar conventional trains using the throttles on my Z4000s. I don't need to run them using andy handheld remote.

The main reason I got this DCS equipment is to operate the electrocouplers on MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines using either the handheld remote unit or smartphone App

It's now in the wee hours of the morning. When you get a chance, Curtis, I would greatly appreciate your explanation of how to hook everything up. Others are also welcome to chime in on this subject. Arnold

Last edited by Arnold D. Cribari

Arnold

The 50-1033 is a one engine control and the remote has to be in sight of the track clip at all times. Yes you are correct in leaving it in a box. If you put a layout around your tree this would be a perfect control for it as it is what I use mine for.

As for transformers. I knew you had two Z4000's but thought you also had a third transformer that was something else. My mistake.

Lets return to the Fixed one input on the TIU. What ever handle you use to power this CAN NOT BE ADJUSTED. Or I should say should not be adjusted. It will affect the all the channels on the TIU so make sure you leave that handle UP at 18 volts. You can use the output to power the loop you are going to use the MTH PS2/3 engines and any Lionel Chief, Chief Plus, Chief Plus 2.0, TMMC, and Legacy engines. BUT NOT CONVENTIONAL without creating a Z Track. (We can discuss that later if needed.)

Let me stop here and ask if you have the MTH Companion by Barry Brokowitz sold by and thru MTH? May I suggest you purchase this as it is only $34.95 for Soft Bound (16-1386) or $14.94 Digital Download (16-1386E) Both being third edition or you may purchase the DCS WiFi Companion 2nd Edition (16-1411) Digital Download. I have all three and they are the BIBLE of DCS You actually only need the WiFi Companion but the 3rd Edition of the Companion has some very useful information not in the 2nd Edition of the WiFi Edition. I will mention here that the WiFi edition does not contain the Explorer due to Barry being deceased before that came out. But it will still help you. Upon reflecting on it I would most likely recommend the 3rd edition for you to start with. I can not stress enough how much this will help you and it will be the best money spent unless seeking a divorce, then I know an attorney named Arnold, but it will cost you big time.

Enough for this writing. Hope this helps and I am sure others will kick in here too.

Curtis

Be aware the explore has limitations!

@CurtisH posted:

Arnold

The 50-1033 is a one engine control and the remote has to be in sight of the track clip at all times. Yes you are correct in leaving it in a box. If you put a layout around your tree this would be a perfect control for it as it is what I use mine for.

As for transformers. I knew you had two Z4000's but thought you also had a third transformer that was something else. My mistake.

Lets return to the Fixed one input on the TIU. What ever handle you use to power this CAN NOT BE ADJUSTED. Or I should say should not be adjusted. It will affect the all the channels on the TIU so make sure you leave that handle UP at 18 volts. You can use the output to power the loop you are going to use the MTH PS2/3 engines and any Lionel Chief, Chief Plus, Chief Plus 2.0, TMMC, and Legacy engines. BUT NOT CONVENTIONAL without creating a Z Track. (We can discuss that later if needed.)

Let me stop here and ask if you have the MTH Companion by Barry Brokowitz sold by and thru MTH? May I suggest you purchase this as it is only $34.95 for Soft Bound (16-1386) or $14.94 Digital Download (16-1386E) Both being third edition or you may purchase the DCS WiFi Companion 2nd Edition (16-1411) Digital Download. I have all three and they are the BIBLE of DCS You actually only need the WiFi Companion but the 3rd Edition of the Companion has some very useful information not in the 2nd Edition of the WiFi Edition. I will mention here that the WiFi edition does not contain the Explorer due to Barry being deceased before that came out. But it will still help you. Upon reflecting on it I would most likely recommend the 3rd edition for you to start with. I can not stress enough how much this will help you and it will be the best money spent unless seeking a divorce, then I know an attorney named Arnold, but it will cost you big time.

Enough for this writing. Hope this helps and I am sure others will kick in here too.

Curtis

Be aware the explore has limitations!

Curtis  this is ENORMOUSLY helpful to me. I can't thank you enough. Arnold

@CurtisH posted:

Arnold

I just check the DCS Wifi Edition 2 and it does contain the Explorer. My Mistake. That is the one to get but I will still suggest getting both.

Curtis, it is still not crystal clear to me what I need to do to run conventional Postwar and MTH Proto 1 engines on my layout with the DCS Remote Control Set #50-1001 and/or DCS Explorer #50-1035 hooked up to my Z4000 transformers and layout.

I now know from your above post that I should not touch my Z4000 throttle handle(s) when running a Postwar or Proto 1 engine on that portion of my layout hooked up to the TIU fixed voltage channels. When running the Postwar or Proto 1 engine there, I have to keep the voltage of the track at 18 volts at all times.

Based on the information I have supplied on this thread, what else should I buy, if anything, and what should I do, so I can run Postwar and MTH Proto 1 engines as well as MTH Proto 2 and 3 engines, on my layout in which the trackwork is not perfect and has small voltage drops at several places?

By the way, my mildly defective trackwork is not a problem at all when running LC+ and LC+2.0, and hardly any problem when running MTH Proto 2 and 3. I simply set my Z4000 throttles at 17 or 18 volts, and the locomotive hardly slows down at all anywhere on my layout. I mention this because I suspect that, although some of us have perfect, or close to perfect, trackwork and wiring, most of us on this Forum do not, like me. Arnold

Arnold

Please NOTE: Your quote = I now know from your above post that I should not touch my Z4000 throttle handle(s) when running a Postwar or Proto 1 engine on that portion of my layout hooked up to the TIU fixed voltage channels. When running the Postwar or Proto 1 engine there, I have to keep the voltage of the track at 18 volts at all times.

For heaven sakes that is not what I said. LOL You can run PS 2 and PS 3 on Fixed one and NOT move the handle off 18 volts.

If you set it to 18 volts with PS 1 or Postwar (conventional) they are going to take off like a rocket. Use the second handle on a different loop isolated from the first loop and run them. You can simply move the handle. Use Fixed 2 for that loop ad control them via the handle.

Send me an email and I will give you my cell number and try to talk you thru it.

Curtis

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