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I would say very unlikely, very very unlikely.

ON3 was very wide spread as a common carrier in the late 1870s.     Think of all the colarodo narrow gauge most famous were D&RGW and RGS.   Also the East Broad Top and the Ohio River and Western in Ohio were quite established and long running.    ON2 was only used in Maine as far as I know on a few small railroads that were common carriers.    ON2 was used a lot in industry I think. 

ON30 (2 1/2 feet) was used in industrial applications in the US, but not as a common carrier as far as I know.   I think ON30 or 750MM or 760MM (both used in Germany) were more often used as common carrier gauges in other countries including south American.

So to sum up, if you want to model a narrow gauge RR in the USA, there is much much more to choose from in ON3 than anything else.

As a 49 year old, I have been in On3 for 21 years, along with 2 rail O, On30 is a "different" scale IMO.
It offers nothing to me, all plastic, out of gauge, wrong tie spacing, if I was on a tight budget or if it was
used as part of a background scene for me I would definitely consider it, since thats not my case, it 
does not offer me any thing. I also love the fact that with scales like S, Sn3, On3 and others require
"real" modeling, not RTR or "shake" a box skills, so like nice cars and art, you learn to really appreciate
what modelers have done on their On3 layouts. ncng

leikec posted:

That's why there's room for both On3 and On30, NCNG...and both gauges together can create a bigger total market for narrow gauge related product in O scale.

As far as craftsmanship goes, that can be found in every scale/gauge  medium if you look for it.

 

Jeff C

Jeff C,

Very good point and I agree, it does increase the market size for O scale narrow gauge, I have a good friend in On2,
we our both on the same page in regards to On30, and since we both love the "craftsman" side on modeling, plastic
On30 taste's like bad Whiskey! I am obviously for growing the narrow gauge market too.

Happy Easter!

ncng

prrjim posted:

ON30 is not a different scale.   It is a different gauge.    It is still O scale, just runs on 30 (actually 32) inch gauge  track.     I understand that Peco makes track and switches with more accurate tie spacing for 1/4 inch scale ON30 as opposed to using HO gauge track.

Thank you my friend, I realize its all 1/4" scale, I also love the point that Jeff C made above about increasing the size of the narrow gauge market size, On30 just taste's like bad Whiskey to me.

Happy Easter!

ncng

prrjim posted:

ON30 is not a different scale.   It is a different gauge.    It is still O scale, just runs on 30 (actually 32) inch gauge  track.     I understand that Peco makes track and switches with more accurate tie spacing for 1/4 inch scale ON30 as opposed to using HO gauge track.

Micro-Engineering also makes On30 track:

G&MP 4-4-0 11 05

Rusty

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I started off in ON3 many years ago I finally switched to Standard gauge because I got sick of building everything except Locos I had no time to build a layout which annoyed me I finally did build a layout as the photos show but it took a while.

 

First photo is a mixture of everything all ON3 if you want a challenge try a Grandt Line Gondola (on right) I was only in my late 30's back then and had more patience and better sight (I think).

The second photo is ON30 (long before Bachmann) up the top with Grandt Line ore cars (another challenge) and ON3 under the ore bin.

That mine in the background was a beautiful wood kit and model, Coronado Scale models, I think lots of memories but no regrets.

Nowadays ON3 has many items that were never around 40 years ago I think you can even buy ready to run turnouts and limited Rolling Stock.

I don't think ON3 is dead.

Roo.

 

ebt1ebt2

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Why did I post the photos of my layout?  

Well, if you look carefully at the photos you will see that locos and cars are a mix of "On3" and "On30" running on ME On30 track.  Why is a long story for another time.

All the On3 equipment (MMI, San Juan Car Co., AMS, etc.) has been regauged to On30

All the On30 equipment (Bachmann, BLI) has been modified with Kadee couplers at On3 height.  

Some Bachmann items look fine with On3; for example, the B'mann 2-8-0s, 4-6-0s, steel hoppers, and short 8 wheel cabooses.  In the earlier photo of the passenger train you can see the B'mann baggage car is slightly narrower, shorter, and lower than the AMS passenger cars.  The other locos and cars are too narrow and the box, stock, reefer, and watermelon cars ride too high on their trucks. Compare the height of the flat car and the two B'mann cars in the photo belowIMG_4070 [2)

A visitor looking at my layout cannot tell if the track is On3 or On30, the width difference is indiscernible to the eye. If they are familiar with On3 and On30, they will notice the mix of equipment.

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Last edited by wbg pete
prrjim posted:

I would say very unlikely, very very unlikely.

ON3 was very wide spread as a common carrier in the late 1870s.     

I do not believe anyone was modeling On3 in 1870.....no small can motors for one thing. 

On3 is 1/4" to the foot, 1/48,  models of 1/1 scale trains running on track gauge of 3 feet. 

If there were model railroaders modeling On3, On30 or On2 in 1870 I'd love to see them!!!

 

colorado hirailer posted:

Too bad Bachmann doesn't offer On3 versions....I would acquire some, and install an interchange. On30? Nyet!

They know their market. The whole ON30 line was started to sell with Department 56 buildings and went from there. It was only later that they realized others were buying it for other reasons and expanded the line. I never see them offering ON3 products and track.

prrjim posted:

OK AMCDAve, you caught my mistake!     I guess  I confused everyone when I meant that 3ft gauge was common, not model gauge.      For those of you in addition to Dave who were confused by  this, I apologize.    And thanks to Dave for finding the error.

Wasn't trying to call you out...just trying to make it clear. 

Want real confusion explain 'G' scale and what the different sizes represent!!  Even Bachmann G is many different scales and gauges.  

Whew! I was about to post about the G scale "guess what scale this is?" morass, and it's resemblance to On30. ....somebody beat me to it, but l don't have a dog in that fight, anyway. If l ever get around to it, l wanted to add an On3 interchange shortline to my three rail.  I do NOT want to have to modify every loco and replace expensive trucks (if can be found) on every car.   To  not provide both gauges is a missed marketing opportunity for On30 mfrs., and for Atlas? not to offer On3 track.  So says  one side of my head.  The other says 4'8 1/2" is a thousands of years old Roman arbitration, anyway, and only metric gauges have any scientific base.  Oh, there was  a 2' Colorado' road serving Central City mines, so not confined to Maine (and l bet others).

 

The Bachman On30 Baldwin models  are a close representation for On42 (QGR 1880's) with a regauge and change of some details.

An intitial "kit-bash" for my project (QGR 1920s-40s)...the Baldwins (2-6-0, 4-6-0, 2-8-0,,2 types) were all scrapped in the 1920s.

For the rest, scratch built 4-6-0 and 4-8-0, but with some US imported parts and accessories ( Westinghouse pumps, headlights, etc.)...available in 1:48 from various US suppliers.

Rolling stock ( Carriages and Wagons-- Pass.Cars and Freight Cars) although US inspired, will haveto be scratch-built. Same for Bogies/Trucks.

Track, although same Gauge as "S" standard ( 22.2mm/ .875") needs to be scratchbuilt ( Code 80 and 70) to reflect the 42 and 60 p/yd rail of the period. Sleepers/Ties as well (1.75"x 3/16"x 1/8").

Given the Total "Inch" specs of the period, all work will be done in "scale inches", not in metric...and so be compatible with what US parts I can acquire.

Sprung Buffers and Hook & Screw link couplers will be a must.    ( MCB couplers only came in late 1960s, with Diesels).

So, On30 and On3 had better carry on in US, so we "poor cousins" Down Under can continue to model our " Colonial Gauge" railways.

BTW, for a real 2'6" railroad, the original British built Chili-Antofagasta ( Bolivia) Nitrate railroad of the late 1890s ( Regauged Metre in 1950s?) For a mix of British Loco and US car Practice...

Also the Patagonian lines (British built in Argentina) with British and German Locos.

 Both good On30 candidates 

Doc AV.

 

On3, On30, Sn3, and narrow gauge modeling in general...

I was on a narrow gauge kick back around the late 1990s early 2000s: 1890s in Sn3.

First obstacle: Engines.

At the time, Railmaster was making some mighty fine locomotive kits in Sn3. Why, there you go, I'll use Railmaster kits! Opening the box of my first RM loco kit greeted my eyes with a project that looked a bit daunting: Bags and bags of white metal castings, brass wire, brass details, brass bits, etc. 40-50 hours later (spread over several weeks) I STILL didn't have a completed engine (painted/etc). Railmaster kits could produce beautiful models, but wow... what a chore. Here's a pic that illustrates my progress of my first such kit:

consol1

By the time the above state was reached with my first kit, I had two or three other RM kits on the shelf. I was eventually going to need six locos. (At 50-60 hours per kit, that's something like 300-360 hours of building right there!)

Then there was the rolling stock issue. ALL rolling stock items for Sn3 were aimed at 20th century narrow gauge. SO, I had to basically scratch build bodies and use MDC "Old Timer" rolling stock frames.

Here's a couple examples:

boxcar2

gondola2

As with the loco(s), none of the rolling stock ever made it to the paint booth. By this time I was attempting to be build an interim small room layout to at least began to enjoy some of the fruits of my labor as I waited for the funds to be saved for a dedicated out building. (Said out building to have been 24' x 24' at the time.) Here's a pic of a portion of that layout effort:

corner2

Yes, I was going for a "funky fantastic" approach. (Those profile pieces were to be painted as rock formations and were removable via velcro. The one on the left covers an electrical cabinet, the one on the right a window.)

Somewhere through this stage, I began to realize that without really trying, I had chosen a medium that was all about BUILDING and wasn't well suited at getting to the point of OPERATING in a timely fashion. I took a cold, hard look at what I was attempting, and the end result was that my theme and medium was way too work intensive and I no longer enjoyed it. Time for a change.

And boy did I change. I went from the craftsman building and the mountains of Colorado to trying to cram a 3-rail Kansas City switching layout in this same room on the same (reworked) bench work with many time saving ideas incorporated.

With that theme I actually got the layout to the operational state:

12thStYd

The reasons for its demise has been documented here at OGR, so I will not go into it again.

Following the decision that 3-rail would not fill the bill for my tastes, I took one more look at narrow gauge. This time On30.

I purchased a BLI C class loco, and a sampling of Bachmann rolling stock. I immediately saw that I would NOT be satisfied using HO track. However, there wasn't a Micro Engineering option at that time, so it would have been back to hand laying track, as I did for many of my previous layouts. I really didn't want to hand lay track on another layout. (I was using Sn3 flex track when in Sn3.)

Next issues was the coupler height. What a fustercluck that is.

Apparently On30 equipment uses the standard HO coupler height, which is not even close (too low) to the height that it should be to represent 3' narrow gauge. ALL On30 equipment suffered from this, and if I wanted it to look closer to "right", I would have to go to great lengths to correct each and every piece. Then there was the "too narrow" look of the gauge. (Even using hand laid w/wider ties, which I laid a few feet so I could see it in reality as opposed to pictures.) When finished hand laying a section, the track gauge looked "okay" at a glance from 3'-4' viewing distances... but really noticeable once you started operating the equipment. (Way too much body overhang which emphasized the too-narrow gauge.)

SO, my On30 experiment was an expensive, but fortunately very short lived, failure.

Now, I fully realize that On30 fills the bill for many, many modelers, and that's fine.

BUT, there is quite a bit of compromise for those that would prefer to better capture the look of 3' gauge railroading.

Recap:

So is On3 dead?

I don't know. But seeing as the question the OP asked also had to do with On2: I don't think On3 will EVER be replaced by On2, (I suspect the OP meant On30) which is far more obscure as a modeling gauge than the desire to model 3' narrow gauge.

I do know that when I view photos of an On3 layout from typical camera distances (close up), and then see photos of On30 layouts, the difference is usually pretty obvious: Gauge and coupler height.

Thus, for the modeler that's fine with simply wanting to capture a portion of the 3' narrow gauge "feel", then likely On30 hunky-dorie. For those modelers that are more fastidious in their desire to model 3' narrow gauge, they will choose On3. I know I would if it came to that.

Wow. Typed another novelette, I did.

Ah well, finished my last cup of coffee, now it's time to shove back from the keyboard and go do some hands-on work in other realms. Life is good.

Bottom line: Enjoy your hobby, however you want to enjoy it!

Andre

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