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Greetings-

I'm trying to evaluate if this Lionel 2332 GG-1 shell was done by Elliot Welz or not.

Some things to consider when looking at the attached photos:

  1. No "Painted By E. Welz" signature stamp on the inside.
  2. Lots of junk in the paint - particularly around the side ladders and across the upper surface (does not show well in the pics but the spots are NOT dust)
  3. No trim was removed prior to paint.  It's not as easy to tell from the pics but the ladders, horns and pantograph seats were all painted over with the silver part of the horns being masked off.  Trim attachment tabs on inside of shell have all been sprayed over black- again indicating they were not removed.
  4. Old heat stamping is visible under the new paint (were original Lionel 2332 shells ever heat-stamped...?)
  5. Stripes and lettering are silk-screened.
  6. Keystones are decals.
  7. No sign of primer.
  8. Seller claims it was done by Elliot Welz 30-35 years ago.
  9. Note attached brochure from Welz (1979 - 38 years ago) where he was clearly removing the trim.
  10. Stripe pattern on the nose is very different from known Welz examples as well as the attached brochure.

 

I have several Welz pieces and they are far superior to this one.  If this is his work, I'm thinking they must have caught him on a bad day.  Seller is getting angry that I have questioned the authenticity and says I don't know what I'm talking about and that it is a "100% quality" example.

Interested in any comments from people with first-hand knowledge of his work.

Thanks!

 

IsItaWelz-1IsItaWelz-1-2IsItaWelz-1-3IsItaWelz-1-4IsItaWelz-1-5IsItaWelz-1-6IsItaWelz-1-7IsItaWelz-1-8IsItaWelz-1-9IsItaWelz-1-10

Welz1979Brochure

Attachments

Images (11)
  • IsItaWelz-1
  • IsItaWelz-1-2
  • IsItaWelz-1-3
  • IsItaWelz-1-4
  • IsItaWelz-1-5
  • IsItaWelz-1-6
  • IsItaWelz-1-7
  • IsItaWelz-1-8
  • IsItaWelz-1-9
  • IsItaWelz-1-10
  • Welz1979Brochure
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

That does not match the Welz paint jobs.  I purchased many Williams GG-1 kits back in the day from Trainworld.  I would have E Welz paint them and I would sell them at train shows.  People would be lined up at my table and they sold out in minutes.  That does not match Welz quality.  He also clear coated the G motors.

revolgnad posted:

His name is on the inside of the engines that I have.

Same here - I have only 1 - an Amtrak 926 GG-1.

His name is clearly stamped inside the shell.

That said - not an expert - the paint job on this is nice - but not without flaw.

And on mine, the vents are painted a bit different than the brochure - so not sure how much you can read into the brochure.

Last edited by Former Member

I find it amusing that two people are arguing about the "authenticity" of whether or not a repainted inexpensive item was repainted by one person or another. There is no added value, IMHO, to having a Welz repaint job over a repaint by anyone else. It's not as though the Welz provenance adds any great value to such a mundane item.

True, Elliot's work was better than 1st class. His painting and detailing were museum quality, if there is such a category in old non-scale GG1 shells.  The one you pictured is simply not one of his. Let the seller be angry. Walk away. A better one will come your way eventually.

Hello.  I'd like to thank everyone who took the time to read and reply to my original post about this supposed Elliot Welz-painted GG1 shell.

I have remained quiet for so long because I had decided to send the shell back to the seller - even before making the original post - and wanted to let my peers (you all) speak to what they thought about it without any further comment from me.  I saw no sense in rattling any cages in case the seller was monitoring this thread and decided to become even more combative.

The seller did refund the purchase 100% and picked up the return shipping but not without taking a few jabs at me by accusing me of "changing my mind" once I received it, and questioning my ability to assess quality.  I suppose the changing my mind is true, technically, because once I could clearly see the workmanship, I decided it was not an original Welz and so did change my mind about keeping it.  I believe the seller was attempting to make me believe I just had "buyer's remorse" and so was returning it for that reason.  In fact, I had a client to whom I had already told I had procured a Welz repaint and would be providing as part of the restoration I was performing on his 2332.  It was disappointing to both of us that the shell provided turned out to not be an actual Welz.

Again, I would like to thank everyone for their comments and for reinforcing that I actually do have a solid eye for these things.

Lesson learned:  Require better, in-focus, clear pictures prior to bidding.  I was lucky this time to only get a few insults.  My first bad experience on "that" auction site in over 1000 transactions...

Best,

Stro

 

Last edited by Stro

I have no comment on whether the shell was done by Welz.

I have done business with the seller for many years, and I'd guess a whole lot of people on this board have too. I seriously doubt he is trying to rip anybody off. I'd guess he is positive it's a Welz, despite what has been written here.

Since the seller has now been identified, albeit indirectly, this thread may be toast.

Last edited by C W Burfle

 

Originally posted by Arthur P. Bloom:

I find it amusing that two people are arguing about the "authenticity" of whether or not a repainted inexpensive item
was repainted by one person or another. There is no added value, IMHO, to having a Welz repaint job over a repaint by
anyone else. It's not as though the Welz provenance adds any great value to such a mundane item.

LOL! So True! Like what has happened to those F3's that were repainted by that Richard Sherry guy out of the Chicago area?

Some of them MUST have hit the secondary market by now!

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