Detailing the K-Line Mikado- Now with SWINGING BELL!!

You never cease to amaze me with your skills, Pete. Keep up the good work.

The tender truck chains that MTH has done since 2004 is also something I'd love to see Lionel do on their steamers in the future.

I passed on the new Legacy Light Mikes - at least for now - but I'll keep these tips in mind should I get one or the less expensive, previously released Heavy Mikes.

Thanks Thomas. I hadn't paid attention to the tender truck chains but you are right, the 2001 MTH tender doesn't have them. It would pretty tedious and time consuming to install them at this point.

Pete

Here is the same K-Line TMCC Mikado. This has the original electronics except for an ERR Cruise M. Still Railsounds 4 and two chuffs. Whats changed is now the bell swings. 

Legacy schmegacy.

Credit Laurie Mclean and his marvelous animations. Look for his youtube videos to see how its done.

Pete

Pete, he seems to be doing it with DCC, how did you synchronize it with TMCC?

Jon Z gave us the key. I am using an RCDR programed with the same number as the R2LC. The bell coil was replaced with a micro gear motor. This couldn't have been done with the coil. Also I was using a Cab1 to control it.

Pete

That is cool

Here is the gearmotor driving it along with its mounting block. The screws are 2-56 to give you an idea of size. 

Pete

Norton posted:

Jon Z gave us the key. I am using an RCDR programed with the same number as the R2LC. The bell coil was replaced with a micro gear motor. This couldn't have been done with the coil. Also I was using a Cab1 to control it.

Pete

I'm still not clear on synchronizing with the bell sound.  I get the RCDR for receiving the TMCC signal, but what board is actually driving the motor?

That's terrific Pete!

I am very impressed with your engine, your detailing, and your layout...Wow. Your craftsmanship is enviable. Thank you for this nice post. Keep the ideas and pictures coming. Happy Railroading.

gunrunnerjohn posted:

 

I'm still not clear on synchronizing with the bell sound.  I get the RCDR for receiving the TMCC signal, but what board is actually driving the motor?

Thank you guys.

John, the motor is driven with the bell board.

Pete

OK, that makes sense.  How did you connect that motor to the bell board?  It works really well, and a lot of the possible victims I have use a similar bell design.  I don't have too many with the bell on the boiler where the magnet coil would work.  Is it really as simple as connecting that little gear motor?  What determines when it stops for each end of the bell swing?

I thought I was going to have to process the bell board signal to drive the motor. In fact its nearly perfect as is. The motor is rated for 6 volts and 90 rpm. The bell board puts out about 7 volts. There needs to be a pot to adjust the speed to match the bell sound. 

In a TMCC engine where an RCDR is needed you have make sure you address it as a TMCC engine. With a Cab1 no problem but with a Cab2 a quick hit on the bell button gives one ring but  the R2LC keeps the ringing  sound until the bell button is hit again. 

Application of this is pretty much limited to medium size TMCC  engines or tenders. Legacy engines might be a little smaller as only the bell board is needed.

Here is another video I made before installing the motor in the engine. My crankshaft is just a 2-56 nylon nut press fit on the motor shaft.

Pete

Hi Pete , 

Absolutely fabulous work , that came out so so realistic. 

Alex 

I'm impressed the bell board was able to drive the motor directly, that's cool!  I plan on adding something like this to locomotives that have plenty of room, so that's not a problem.

Do you have the source for the gear motor?

gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm impressed the bell board was able to drive the motor directly, that's cool!  I plan on adding something like this to locomotives that have plenty of room, so that's not a problem.

Do you have the source for the gear motor?

This is where I found mine. Lots of other cool stuff here.

https://www.pololu.com/product/2359

Pete

Incredible work Pete.....take a bow!......Pat

Wow!  Great work!

You should talk with Allan Miller about writing a How-to for OGR Magazine.

Bob

That is a seriously cool upgrade!

I've been thinking about trying out what you did but never got around to it.......I give you lots of Kudos on this.

I'm curious on how you wired the pot to adjust the speed.

Bruk, I'm guessing just in series with the motor to slow it down slightly to match the bell sounds.

Bruk, the pot is wired as a variable resistor so I am increasing the resistance to slow it down, not as a true potentiometer to divide the voltage. I made a board with a full wave bridge, 20uf tantalum cap and the pot placed between the bell board and motor. I don't think the bridge is needed but kept it in as I had the room. The cap is mainly to tone down the noise I was seeing on the bell board drive signal. Again likely optional if space is critical.

I want to point out again, credit for this idea goes to Laurie Mclean and Jon Z and Lionel tech for producing what is essentually a decoder that transforms the bell signal to a DC level. I just combined these two ideas.

For those who have not discovered Laurie's videos here a few. Next on my project list is the working fireman.

They basically all work on the same principle of a crankshaft turning rotary motion into linear motion. The mechanics are fairly straightforward. Its triggering this motion remotely thats been made a problem by being unable to add custom functions to Lionel's and MTH's handhelds. 

Pete, any chance of a wiring diagram?  I'm wondering, doesn't the bell coil drive reverse polarity to move the bell back and forth?  Curious how you actually wired the motor to the board, your video suggests it's a constant voltage.

Norton posted:

Bruk, the pot is wired as a variable resistor so I am increasing the resistance to slow it down, not as a true potentiometer to divide the voltage. I made a board with a full wave bridge, 20uf tantalum cap and the pot placed between the bell board and motor. I don't think the bridge is needed but kept it in as I had the room. The cap is mainly to tone down the noise I was seeing on the bell board drive signal. Again likely optional if space is critical.

I want to point out again, credit for this idea goes to Laurie Mclean and Jon Z and Lionel tech for producing what is essentially a decoder that transforms the bell signal to a DC level. I just combined these two ideas.

For those who have not discovered Laurie's videos here a few. Next on my project list is the working fireman.

They basically all work on the same principle of a crankshaft turning rotary motion into linear motion. The mechanics are fairly straightforward. Its triggering this motion remotely thats been made a problem by being unable to add custom functions to Lionel's and MTH's handhelds. 

 

 

This is why I'm converting my items to DCC easier for these custom installs.  I still mess around with Lionel's electronics, but I don't like the closed system. DCS is basically DCC. So Id rather convert over to actual DCC.

John, here is pic of the boards taken during developement. Ignore the big cap on the board on the right.

From left to right, RCDR, Bell Board, Pot, motor.

Bell board output in this case goes to the bridge but could go directly to the pot or even motor if you didn't need to adjust the speed.

In this case polarity at the motor doesn't matter.

Pete 

Of course, bridge rectifier to maintain a constant polarity, that should have occurred to me!  A big DUH, and thanks for the clarification!   Do you really need that big cap?  The wiring looks simple enough, that's for sure.

Sorry, I missed your main point. I expected the bell board to change polarity and thats why I added the bridge but in fact its just a DC level on and off. Maybe the bell is located over one end of the bell coil and reverses when the DC Level is zero. Never looked at that.

The cap was there to solder the motor wires to. It was taken out and replaced with a connector.

Right now the engine and tender and back apart as I look for a better solution for a tether.

Pete

Can this work conventionally with hitting the Bell button on the transformer or does this have to be TMCC/ Legacy?

I expected it to change polarity as well, but my head wasn't in the game and thinking about a bridge for a simple solution.

The gear motor never occurred to me, since the coils are not available, that seems to be the way to go.

I'd love to see a write up with how to add swinging bells to locomotives using the motor like this and the coil like in Legacy locomotives.  Swinging bells are one of my favorite features.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Can this work conventionally with hitting the Bell button on the transformer or does this have to be TMCC/ Legacy?

I think Jon Z said it won't work in conventional but it might not be too hard to design a circuit that responds to the DC offset and start the motor. Mines apart now so I can't test that option.

Pete

I think conventional would not be difficult, there are tons of circuits to detect the track DC offset.

So Pete explain something to me, Does the Bell Board need a DC offset to trigger its function?  Or is it controlled by both Conventional DC offset or a Legacy/TMCC command signal for bell?

Does the RCDR one shot a DC offset on the Bell Command?

I guess I am wondering my you need the Bell Board?  Or why you need the RCDR.

Can the RCDR DC Offset Latch a small board to provide the 5V to drive motor?  Second Press of Bell turns latch off.  Your at 3 boards anyway, so it seems possible a simple board to replicate what the Bell board does replaces the bell board.   Or why is the RCDR needed?  G

G, The bell board works off serial 9 bit data, not a DC offset. I doesn't work in conventional. The RCDR is there to provide the 9 bit data. If you used this in a legacy engine you wouldn't need the RCDR, only the Bell Board. the Bell board is basically a decoder that takes the bell signal and outputs a 7V DC level to energize the bell coil instead of an audio board. I am using the motor instead of a bell coil.

I used the RCDR because I wanted to try this on a TMCC engine. The original R2LC still provides the signal to the RS4 board and the RCDR to the Bell board. As long as you address the RCDR as a TMCC engine the bell movement and sound stay in sync. If you address the RCDR as a Legacy engine then the bell will sound after the movement stops

I'm curious on the RCDR equipped Legacy if we'll have an issue with the serial data ground not being frame ground.  For TMCC and early Legacy with the R4LC, frame ground and DC ground are the same.

Wow! Phenomenal job on the swinging bell. It looks extremely realistic. 

Pete, I have always liked the idea of straightening out MTH tethers is there a thread somewhere showing how you did it? 

BTW, your ballast also looks very realistic. 

John, note on the thread where the member blew up his bell board that his version did not have Legacy common, only frame ground. maybe that would work with an R4LC?? Something worth checking when you get all of your boards. I know on the bell board I am using it did require Legacy common that the RCDR did provide.

BTW I was also wondering if the requirement that the bell board would only work with Legacy is because of the signal common requirement or the 9 bit data requirement?

Pete

Hudson J1e posted:

Wow! Phenomenal job on the swinging bell. It looks extremely realistic. 

Pete, I have always liked the idea of straightening out MTH tethers is there a thread somewhere showing how you did it? 

BTW, your ballast also looks very realistic. 

Thanks Phil. 

I started out replacing the right angle tether with a straight MTH one. Then when these became harder to come by I simply straigtened the right angle one documented in these two threads. The straight ones are more elegant but the modified right angle ones are more economical like $0.00.

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ting-older-mth-steam

https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...ghtening-mth-tethers

Pete

So if you press the whistle button and the RCDR sends a signal of serial data to the Bell board, is there any output?  Or it only looks for bell signal.  G