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 We all know that if steam is to ever run in PTC territory the steamer itself will have to have it installed.

My question is how will it work?  Has someone come up with a design yet?  Anyone in the know, know the cost of such a system?  I’m sure each steam engine will be different?   Will it be a big rubber mallet that bonks the engineer in the head to let him know he ran a signal?

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superwarp1 posted:

 We all know that if steam is to ever run in PTC territory the steamer itself will have to have it installed.

My question is how will it work?

Hopefully MUCH better than what is currently being used on the freight railroads.

 Has someone come up with a design yet?

Pretty much, yes.

 Anyone in the know, know the cost of such a system?

Yes, the Forth Wayne Railroad Historical Society has pretty well worked the costs out.

 I’m sure each steam engine will be different?

Why? They all should be able to use the same design.

  Will it be a big rubber mallet that bonks the engineer in the head to let him know he ran a signal?

Sounds logical.

 

PTC is a long way from being that perfect pill to cure problems . 

Not yet reliable, lots of learning curves that everyone seems to be having problems with,and now the FRA has asked certain class 1's their input on more automation  😲

It's hard enough to get PTC working "near" perfect on high tech diesel's. 

I really can't imagine even trying it on a steam loco. 

Hot Water posted:
Dominic Mazoch posted:

And radio signals can be hacked or jammed.

I really don't think that will be an issue.

On a steamer could the PTC be placed in a car behind the tender, and make that car an aux. tender of the locomotive?

No. The PTC equipment MUST be able to over-ride the controlling airbrake equipment, i.e. the lead locomotive.

 

Didn't the NYC have a form of PTC in the late 40's-50's and they dropped it due to the cost?  If so how did it work with steam engines?

superwarp1 posted:
Hot Water posted:
Dominic Mazoch posted:

And radio signals can be hacked or jammed.

I really don't think that will be an issue.

On a steamer could the PTC be placed in a car behind the tender, and make that car an aux. tender of the locomotive?

No. The PTC equipment MUST be able to over-ride the controlling airbrake equipment, i.e. the lead locomotive.

 

Didn't the NYC have a form of PTC in the late 40's-50's and they dropped it due to the cost?  If so how did it work with steam engines?

Many, many railroads had cab signal/Automatic Train Stop/Automatic Train Control back in the steam days. All the "electronics" (vacuum tubes, etc.) were usually mounted on the tenders, with the pick-up shoes/antennas mounted on the engine. The UP steam locomotives, i.e. 844, 3985, and 4014 have all the modern "solid-state" electronics in order to operate throughout the UP system (cab signal) and former C&NW system (ATC). The New York Central and PRR had various versions of continuous coded cab signal equipment, and the North East Corridor still has that PRR system, as well as Amtrak's own version of PTC.

Those older systems worked VERY well with the steam locomotives, the only difference was, back then someone in the cab had to shut the throttle off, i.e. the Engineer, or the Fireman, or the Head Brakeman, in the event of a penalty brake application. The same process will work in the future with PTC applications on a steam locomotive, as the FRA has given relief on the "automatic throttle shut-off" portion of the law, for steam locomotives.

TRAINS did do an article years ago explaining the various ICC orders requiring the then Class 1 railroads to have some sort of cab signal/train stop system in the 1920's on at least one operating division.

After a terrible wreck involving a passenger train on the CB&Q, the ICC slapped a max speed of 79 mph on all roads UNLESS the particular line had cab signals/train stop system.

And as HW said above, eack road seemed to come up with its own system.

Amazing this stuff worked with the tech they had at that time.

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