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Having grown up in Wisconsin, my interest is in the railroads that had a history of operations in my Wisconsin region.  I'm always interested in the Milwaukee Road offerings.  That said, I have always hoped that Lionel would offer any Soo Line steam locomotive with Legacy.   I also really like the Milwaukee Road Bicentennial SD40-2 with along  with another powered Milwaukee SD40-2, and the Wisconsin Southern as well. 

From the previous Lionel catalog 2018 c1, I have have orders placed for the Wisconsin Central SD45, and a Milwaukee Torpedo.  Milwaukee aside, I appreciate that Lionel has offered some midwestern Wisconsin regional road-names in the past two catalogs.  I like this Lionel catalog, and enjoy reading the perspectives on this forum from others interests and influences.

Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO LineLionel 1933111_Milwaukee_Road-Bicentennial_b156_Legacy_SD40-2Lionel 1933112_Milwaukee_Road_u190_Legacy_SD40-2Lionel 1933151_Wisconsin_p_Southern_l4001_Legacy_SD40-2

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  • Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO Line
  • Lionel 1933111_Milwaukee_Road-Bicentennial_b156_Legacy_SD40-2
  • Lionel 1933112_Milwaukee_Road_u190_Legacy_SD40-2
  • Lionel 1933151_Wisconsin_p_Southern_l4001_Legacy_SD40-2

I fell for the MILW SD40.  If I save my pennies, I may have enough to get a second unit. The Kinematic Pilot and the various other improvements are irresistible.  If the fuel tank is wrong I'll just turn it around and drill some new holes in the frame, if necessary.

I would like to have just one of the UP Merchandise Express cars.  The trucks are wrong but they could make good by coming out with the right ones.  If not, I'll find some 2R beauties or modify something. 

I've had good luck with the LionScale cars, so far.  None of the defects that SIRT complained of.  MTH does have superior quality in most of its freight equipment but their flat cars are just plain sad.  Conversely, Lionel flat cars, of the diecast frame - wood deck variety, are spectacular.  Just like TV Magic Cards, adding Kadees is a breeze, once you know the secret.

Leftover "concrete" pilasters from a Korber Kendall Background Building or similar structure kits make perfect spacers, just cut 'em down to width, Gorilla glue and clamp 'em, let set, drill and mount.  Perhaps Mr. Muffin might market those pieces as spacers, now that he's picked up the Korber baton.

machinist posted:
 

I have been pleading with and emailing Lionel for several years to produce the Burlington Northern SD40-2 #1876 Bicentennial paint scheme engine with no avail.   I thought that maybe it would finally show up in this catalog-but once again no dice.   3 BN SD40-2's but no Bicentennial scheme.   Come on Lionel  @Conrail6358 why not?    Lionel has already produced(back in 2011) the BN U30C #1776 Bicentennial scheme-been waiting 7 years for its mate.   These BN Bicentennial engines ,  U30C #1776,  SD40-2 #1876,  along with SDP40-2 were the only Bicentennial engines to actually pull the American Freedom Train by themselves from city to city when the #4449 was down for service.   Please Lionel,  reconsider producing the  BN #1876 in THIS catalog as who knows how many years before another run of SD40-2's are made.  Thanks 

Nick  

1023-18 BN 1876 Bicentennial

 

Maybe someone will think about having a Lionel special run edition of this engine made(please),  since Lionel themselves apparently have no interest in producing it before I am planted.

Nick

breezinup posted:
Robbie posted:

That said, I have always hoped that Lionel would offer any Soo Line steam locomotive with Legacy. 

Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO Line

I think this is the first Soo Line steam engine Lionel has ever done in its entire history.

I think Lionel MPC did a traditional, small  Soo steam engine back in the early 1970’s. Not sure, however. Certainly this is the first or second either way. 

Dave Warburton posted:
breezinup posted:
Robbie posted:

That said, I have always hoped that Lionel would offer any Soo Line steam locomotive with Legacy. 

Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO Line

I think this is the first Soo Line steam engine Lionel has ever done in its entire history.

I think Lionel MPC did a traditional, small  Soo steam engine back in the early 1970’s. Not sure, however. Certainly this is the first or second either way. 

There was a Soo Line NW-2 diesel switcher in 1975, but no small steam loco.

machinist posted:
machinist posted:
These BN Bicentennial engines ,  U30C #1776,  SD40-2 #1876,  along with SDP40-2 were the only Bicentennial engines to actually pull the American Freedom Train by themselves from city to city when the #4449 was down for service.   

1023-18 BN 1876 Bicentennial

 

Maybe someone will think about having a Lionel special run edition of this engine made(please),  since Lionel themselves apparently have no interest in producing it before I am planted.

Nick

I've also discussed the need for a Legacy SD40-2 in the BN Bicentennial scheme.  The U30C and SD40-2 did pull the AFT without one of the steamers, but not the SDP40-2 (it acted as a helper).  If Lionel would make a BN Bicentennial SD40-2 it, along with the U30C, could pull Lionel's new AFT cars for a realistic scene.

irish rifle posted:
superwarp1 posted:
Joe Fermani posted:

Overall, a good catalog.  Not much in there for me but thats ok.  Wallet could use a rest.  I like the new sound cars - kitchen and freight sounds.  But I see Lionel is still committed to using the new thumb tack couplers.  I have an issue with scale equipment that has a thumb tack.  To me it ruins the look of the car.  Thumb tacks are fine for the traditional line but I wish the older trucks would come back for the scale items.  The hybrid is nice and so is the new Vision Engine.  I did not see any new features for the vision engine.  Isn't that the purpose of the vision line?

you want scale but accept that oversized monster claw.  Convert to Kadee, problem solved.

Unfortunately, that is not a real world solution. Most of us were very satisfied with Lionel's industry leading die cast sprung trucks and couplers with hidden uncoupling tabs and could care less about the so called "lobster claws" that Lionel has been offering for its entire history. I have hundreds of Lionel freight and passenger cars and have exactly zero interest in converting any to Kadees. Suspect many others feel the same way. 

Just say no to Thumbtacks!

First everyone was complaining about Weaver's thumbtacks and now Lionel has gone backwards...

Berkshire President posted:

I'm very interested in the VL Challengers, especially 3985.  Not sure if I'll pre-order or wait for them to arrive first.

It was also nice to see some prices take a step "backwards".....FWIW.

Overall, I liked the catalog.

Always best to pre-order than to show up and no engines at all. My dealer only takes orders for what people want. Last year I had asked if they ordered extras and they said no. Mainly because it deals with their space constraints. They only have so much room to use, and don't want to have stuff laying all over the place being tripping hazards.

ed h posted:
Dave Warburton posted:
breezinup posted:
Robbie posted:

That said, I have always hoped that Lionel would offer any Soo Line steam locomotive with Legacy. 

Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO Line

I think this is the first Soo Line steam engine Lionel has ever done in its entire history.

I think Lionel MPC did a traditional, small  Soo steam engine back in the early 1970’s. Not sure, however. Certainly this is the first or second either way. 

There was a Soo Line NW-2 diesel switcher in 1975, but no small steam loco.

I have the NW2.  

I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but there were engines on the inadvertent catalog release which Lionel pulled that do not appear in the actual new catalog. Did anyone else notice this?

I recall seeing some articulated engines, among them a Great Northern (something like a 2-6-6-4) with the prototypical Vanderbilt type tender, which do not appear in the released catalog. There may have been others, but the Great Northern caught my eye. We may have had a preview of a few items that will appear in the 2019 catalog.

Last edited by breezinup
breezinup posted:

I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but there were engines on the inadvertent catalog release which Lionel pulled that do not appear in the actual new catalog. Did anyone else notice this?

I recall seeing some articulated engines, among them a Great Northern (something like a 2-6-6-4) with the prototypical Vanderbilt type tender, which do not appear in the released catalog. There may have been others, but the Great Northern caught my eye. We may have had a preview of a few items that will appear in the 2019 catalog.

Any chance you are thinking of the 2-6-6-2 GN that was announced in 2018 Vol. I?  I believe they are due yet this year.  I have the Legacy NKP Mallet from a few years ago - one of my favorite engines.

 

Rider Sandman posted:
breezinup posted:

I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but there were engines on the inadvertent catalog release which Lionel pulled that do not appear in the actual new catalog. Did anyone else notice this?

I recall seeing some articulated engines, among them a Great Northern (something like a 2-6-6-4) with the prototypical Vanderbilt type tender, which do not appear in the released catalog. There may have been others, but the Great Northern caught my eye. We may have had a preview of a few items that will appear in the 2019 catalog.

Any chance you are thinking of the 2-6-6-2 GN that was announced in 2018 Vol. I?  I believe they are due yet this year.  I have the Legacy NKP Mallet from a few years ago - one of my favorite engines.

 

Yes, that's it. Forgot it was in an earlier catalog. 

breezinup posted:
Rider Sandman posted:
breezinup posted:

I didn't notice if anyone mentioned it, but there were engines on the inadvertent catalog release which Lionel pulled that do not appear in the actual new catalog. Did anyone else notice this?

I recall seeing some articulated engines, among them a Great Northern (something like a 2-6-6-4) with the prototypical Vanderbilt type tender, which do not appear in the released catalog. There may have been others, but the Great Northern caught my eye. We may have had a preview of a few items that will appear in the 2019 catalog.

Any chance you are thinking of the 2-6-6-2 GN that was announced in 2018 Vol. I?  I believe they are due yet this year.  I have the Legacy NKP Mallet from a few years ago - one of my

Yes, that's it. Forgot it was in an earlier catalog. 

Cool. If it still has your eye caught, go for it!  I really like mine. It has the bulk and feel of some of the bigger articulateds, but runs and looks good on O54/O63/O72.

ed h posted:

Here is an item that shows up in Lionelstore.com but not in the catalog:

http://www.lionelstore.com/LEG...Bonnet-Passenger-Set

In the Dave and Ryan Show on Facebook, Ryan says that they had to change factories for the 21" passenger cars, and that it would take them time to get manufacturing up on them. Lionel elected to postpone cataloging 21" cars in this issue since they couldn't produce them right away.

 

I've had good luck with the LionScale cars, so far.  None of the defects that SIRT complained of.   

 

Maybe you got lucky or bought newer cars after the initial batch?

The new Dweebs lost a ton of potential sales by not sticking with the original PS series truck design on the newer products. Attempting to make it cheaper while raising prices. MTH's newer cars have far surpassed this outdated design using hidden un-couplers and air hoses with a lower price. No competition here.

As for Quality, I have torn down a bunch of new LionScale items for painting and found assembly – production issues. Details and non glued falling off parts were not consistent with-in each freight car model. Looks like they were either experimenting like Weaver did throughout the years or the assembly people just got distracted and lost focus in the process. The shells are so thin, the light now shines through them.

Why don’t they just fess up and say, sorry folks, the company supplying us the cool trucks you all liked went out of business and we can’t get them anymore. We had to put out an out dated design at a higher price just to meet our production hoping none of you would notice. There's no profit in 2r anymore, so I don't buy their excuse.

I work in production / Quality every day and at home too. Guess I just notice these things sooner that others who keep stuff in a box until its too late. 

    Here's how all O couplers should be offered in 2018. Even RMT/  Walter gave us them.

MTH COUPLERS 2018 [1)

MTH COUPLERS 2018 [2)

 

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Images (2)
  • MTH COUPLERS 2018 (1)
  • MTH COUPLERS 2018 (2)
Last edited by SIRT
SIRT posted:
 

I've had good luck with the LionScale cars, so far.  None of the defects that SIRT complained of.   

 

Maybe you got lucky or bought newer cars after the initial batch?

The new Dweebs lost a ton of potential sales by not sticking with the original PS series truck design on the newer products. Attempting to make it cheaper while raising prices. MTH's newer cars have far surpassed this outdated design using hidden un-couplers and air hoses with a lower price. No competition here.

As for Quality, I have torn down a bunch of new LionScale items for painting and found assembly – production issues. Details and non glued falling off parts are not consistent with-in each freight car model. Looks like they were either experimenting like Weaver did throughout the years or the assembly people just got distracted and lost focus in the process. The shells are so thin, the light now shines through them.

Why don’t they just fess up and say, sorry folks, the company supplying us the cool trucks you all liked went out of business and we can’t get them anymore. We had to put out an out dated design at a higher price just to meet our production hoping none of you would notice. There's no profit in 2r anymore, so I don't buy their excuse.

I work in production / Quality every day and at home too. Guess I just notice these things sooner that others who keep stuff in a box until its too late. 

                                     Here's how all O couplers should be offered in 2018...…

MTH COUPLERS 2018 [1)

MTH COUPLERS 2018 [2)

 

Couldn't agree more. One question. When you indicated "Why don’t they just fess up and say, sorry folks, the company supplying us the cool trucks you all liked went out of business and we can’t get them anymore.", do you know for a fact that this was Lionel's real reason or are you just speculating?

My guess was that Lionel transitioned to the cheap and inferior trucks and couplers to save on costs, without passing the cost savings on to its customers. When I wrote directly to Lionel and questioned this decision, Lionel refused to respond. This confirmed to me what I suspected all along, namely that there was no defensible explanation for it. Also agree with you that the excuse proffered by some about catering to the 2-rail crowd was bogus. Marketing 101 teaches that you do not disenfranchise your core customer base to satisfy the desires of a few.

In my previous post,  I mentioned I had hoped one day Lionel would offer any Soo Line steamer with Legacy, as in "Legacy control".  I also did a quick search for some images of a prototype.   The description in the Lionel 2018 C2 book  states the locomotives are shown in a USRA design with other railroads using a mountain design later on.  Anyway, here's an image I found of a Soo Line 4-8-2.  

Soo Line Light Mountain 1Lionel 1931110 Light Mountain SOO Line

 

Last edited by Robbie

This is overall not that bad of a volume 2 of a 2018 catalog. When it comes to what I am interested in, there are quite a few things that I give Lionel props for:

I am probably gonna pre-order one of the SP A-6 Atlantic's, the daylight looks beautiful but I am most likely gonna look at one of the black Atlantics since I already have a lot of my SP roster in daylight paint. I'm very surprised they brought those back after all of these years and they are a great addition to the 2018 lineup.

The RS-11's I am also very interested in, most particularly the Conrail and Burlington Northern schemes. I have a Delaware & Hudson model with an older odyssey that I wouldn't mind switching out for a newer model.

The bunk, tool, and kitchen cars definitely caught my eye, I'm not sure what road I would get but I would not mind giving them a try although the detail on the bunk cars leave something to be desired.

When it comes to the reefers with freight sounds, I may have to buy a few to give them a try. However, I can't help but notice the comments about the questionable sound issues that have occurred with those in the past. Makes me wonder if they are actually worth the money, I might wait and see how things play out when they come out.

Last edited by TrainMasterMark

I decide to closer examine the listing for the traditional GRAND TRUNK WESTERN auto racks. They have a clear numbering error the cars are numbered in 5 digits. This GTW auto rack flat car series is 6 digits 504000-504099. Here is a photo of the real freight car GTW 504054. 

GTW 504054 blue

The greatly increased price of these flat cars with auto racks means that every printed detail has to be right. 

The price for the tiny O gauge auto racks on flat cars is getting close to the price of the huge O Scale auto racks on flat cars.

Grand Trunk Western is my local railroad. There are photos showing the correct numbers and graphics.

Andrew

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  • GTW 504054 blue

I got a print copy of the catalog and the die-cast trucks for the O gauge auto racks are the old-fashioned Journal Bearing trucks. The Maxi-Stack cars have roller bearing trucks. The O gauge auto racks need to have the modern roller bearing trucks with couplers that are sprung to swing in curves. Even though they are not 1:48th or 1:64th scale cars they could at least have the right trucks.

Andrew

I'll be reaching out to Mr. Muffins trains and against my better judgement I'm going to give Lionel another chance on the Lionel 1942210 Armor Yellow BX-50-31 40' DD express boxcars.  I think I'll forego the risk on a 6 car set and just purchase 2.  I'm hoping they look nice and color match my 3rd Rail Alco PA and GGD Harriman passenger cars.

Lionel 1942210

My quick assessment:

1.)   Pretty sure these are the old Weaver design with Lionel trucks, but LionScale is supposed to be "Special" so I'll reserve judgement until I actually inspect the delivered model.

2.)   Union Pacific B-50-25 & B-50-31 Express Box cars were nominal 40' double door cars but for fast package delivery so they were shorter. 8'6" inside. (I believe this is why when looking at proportions in photographs some modelers and manufacturers mistake them for 50' cars.)

3.)   For Higher speeds the B-50-25 (9100-9199) had Symington-Gould High Speed Trucks. B-50-31 9200-9209 had Barber Stabilized Trucks, 9210-9219 were equipped with Allied Full Cushioned Trucks, 9220-9229 were equipped with Elsey Trucks.  None of the makers will bother with accurate trucks so I'm certain Lionel will deliver them with generic Bettendorf style trucks.  I'll live with that.  If they come with 100 ton roller bearing trucks I'm going to be angry.

4.)   They seem to have gotten the classification correct but the dates wrong.  Early scheme cars were B-50-25 & B-50-31. Repainted TTG in 1946, then repainted Armor Yellow in 1952 along with designation change to BX-50-25 & BX-50-31.  However, the build dates for the B-50-25 9100 series should be 8/39(9100-9108), 9/39(9109-9189) or 10/39(9190-9199).  Build dates for the B-50-31 9200 series should be 2-41(9200-9209), 12-40(99210-9219), 1-41(9220-9229).  OM dated for the yellow should be around 12-52.

5.)   Double doors should only have the Placard Board on the right hand door, not both.

6.)   Photo evidence shows some details varied depending when the cars were in painting or shop.

My Hope:

1.) They look nice, have good build quality, and reasonably accurate details.

2.)  Lionel releases them next in the 1946-52 TTG scheme.

Union Pacific Historical Society, as usual, is a fantastic resource.

Specifically The Streamliner Vol. 5 No. 4, which has in depth information, UP build design schematics, numbering and painting details.  Also has several high quality and wonderful photos.  

UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 cover

UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 4

UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 7

UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 19

 

 

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  • Lionel 1942210
  • UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 cover: UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 cover
  • UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 4: UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 4
  • UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 7: UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 7
  • UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 19: UPHS The Streamliner Vol.5 No. 4 Pg. 19
Last edited by WITZ 41

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