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there was a mention on the last 3rd Rail newsletter I got.     Basically it was a feeler.    Scott asked for input on whether to do the GP7/9.   He asked customers (people who got the newsletter) for their opinions on doing the GP7-GP9 series.    He made this request in the last two Newsletters I received from Sunset 3Rd Rail.

So based on that, it is not a rumor, it is a proposal - somewhere between a project and a wish.   He has not decided to do it and ask for reservations, but he has asked for us customers if we have interest.    This seems to be because the SD40 project sort of flopped.    Very light reservations.

Matt Makens posted:

With Lionel just shipping a second or 3rd run of Leacy GP9's and the Atlas GP7/9 along with the MTH ones, is this one that's going to get off the ground? 

It would IF Scott does torpedo tube GP7 & GP9's and or phase 3 GP9 with the 3 48" fans. Those units are unique and will stick out! Bonus would be the UP & PRR GP9 B's as well as the ATSF GP7B's!

The PRR GP7s could be fun.    they ordered each one pretty much for specific assignments with different options.    They had a couple torpedo versions, some with dynamics, some without, I think some had train phone and some not.     The GP9s on the other hand seemed to be pretty much the same as each other.   The last order or 2 had the large 48 fans as a difference.

I have 2 SD40-2’s ordered from when they were first announced in 2016. I would add a 3rd if production moved forward but it’s highly unlikely enough reservations will be met anytime soon.

Erik from MMW is still taking reservations for his SD40-2 if you want one bad enough. Early pictures and reports imply this is going to be an exceptional model that will set the standard for scale fidelity.

Norm- My first O scale diesel was a USH-KTM "GP9".  Indeed it turned out like its MG-KTM predecessor it had GP7 body details and railings.  Back in the 1960/70's many people thought if an EMD geep had a dynamic brake blister it was a GP9 --not necessarily so.  Over the years that GP7 went on my workbench/backshop multiple times.  The first for body detail upgrades like PRR train antenna and lost wax cast fan covers, then for steel wheels, later for a Pittman can motor, and most recently for a gearhead motor- center belt tower ball bearing drive and Tsunami2 DCC sound.  At 47 years old it's my sweetest running diesel.  

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Last edited by Keystoned Ed

My first choice would be some GP7s in Lackawanna.  My second choice would be for some GP7s in Erie Lackawanna black and yellow.  And some Southern Pacific black widow GP9s with proper lighting are always welcome.

GP7s and GP9s for 3rd Rail could be like their F-units.  They could make them for many roads, but I suspect getting all of the road specific details correct is going to be a nightmare.

Irregardless, if they build them, I will reserve and purchase them since they will have an excellent drive system and will be the best in class for their price range.  I just wish Scott would follow his own advice and get off the fence and offer them.

rex desilets posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Still trying to figure out how to pay for a NYC ABA F3 they are coming out with this year.  GP7/9 in NYC or B&M will be hard to decide which....

Sell a child?

I have plenty of those to spare.

Do all 3rdrail diesels come with fixed pilots or just the F and E units?  One reason I don't have any diesels on the pike is that darn swinging pilot through curves.

prrhorseshoecurve posted:
Matt Makens posted:

With Lionel just shipping a second or 3rd run of Leacy GP9's and the Atlas GP7/9 along with the MTH ones, is this one that's going to get off the ground? 

It would IF Scott does torpedo tube GP7 & GP9's and or phase 3 GP9 with the 3 48" fans. Those units are unique and will stick out! Bonus would be the UP & PRR GP9 B's as well as the ATSF GP7B's!

Didn’t Lionel just ship a bunch of GP7/9 TTS?

superwarp1 posted:
rex desilets posted:
superwarp1 posted:

Still trying to figure out how to pay for a NYC ABA F3 they are coming out with this year.  GP7/9 in NYC or B&M will be hard to decide which....

Sell a child?

I have plenty of those to spare.

Do all 3rdrail diesels come with fixed pilots or just the F and E units?  One reason I don't have any diesels on the pike is that darn swinging pilot through curves.

All the 3rd Rail diesels I have have a fixed pilot on them. The 3 rail versions have a larger coupler opening on the fixed pilot

I too hope that the SD40-2 is not cancelled; however, I think that the issue is that for these $7xx price point models to get done, 3rd rail is looking for “knock it out of the park” type reservations, e.g. in the 1000 reservations range versus say a more muted number as required by the recent Virginian Electrics (note that the Virginian Electrics are at a significantly higher price point, e.g. ~$2000 for a pair of plastic ABS body/brass details locomotives).   I don’t think that the SD40-2 reservations have been really “that bad”, as every time you turn around you hear someone new chime in that they reserved  (usually more than one).   However, I don’t think the reservation number approaches the 1K mark (or whatever that magic number that 3rd rail is looking to hit).  Same goes for the GP40-2.  Unfortunately, the way that the 2-Rail O scale demographics lines up (steam/first generation diesel dominance), it is not likely that reservation numbers that the F-units / E-units have garnered will be achievable in the more modern era motive power classes.   Couple that with the sheer quantity of decent 3-Rail motive power coming out of Lionel and MTH at lower prices, so you are not going to steal a lot of 3-Rail guys to fill in the reservation numbers, especially for a fixed pilot model requiring wider radius curves.  Modern era motive power via 3rd Rail may only be achievable by bumping up the price point to something similar to the Virginian Electrics.  Now… how many modern era folks will belly up for a $1K model similar in class to the Virginian Electrics versus a $7xx model but at a lower minimum reservation count is the big unknown.

Scott Kay 

Last edited by Scott Kay

I think I read here that 400-450 is the minimum number for most 3rd Rail models in the $650-$750 range and that is combined 2-rail and 3-rail reservations. Twenty units is required for a specific road name to be done.

It seems as if 3-railers are OK with the inferior SD40-2's from Lionel and MTH and that is one reason why reservations are moving along at such a slow pace. It's too bad that companies like 3rd Rail and Atlas have to rely so heavily on 3-rail preorders in order for a 2-rail version to be offered.

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