E6

TrainBub posted:

Bob Harris posted:

TrainBub posted:

Bob Harris posted:

Blue Streak posted:

The (2) Burlington E5's I received are top notch Silver Arrow and Silver Swift. Also the Missouri Pacific E6 AB set #7002. Thanks to all that contributed in making them. 

Have a pair of Rock Island to still open.

Your welcome on the contribution to the Mopac sets

Bob

Bob

Are you Missouri Pacific Historical Society member?

YrainBub

Yes and founding member all the way back to 1976.

Ah. Good access for MP E6 details. 

Thanks for contributing. 

Yes and as much as Scott and I tried numerous times and supplied 4 lbs of detail material, the builder fell short on the B Unit I can Only give it a 89  A unit 98 out of 100.

BH

TO ALL WHO PUT LOVE IN THIS PROJECT   THANKYOU  !!!!!!!!

Here is the Rockford O Scalers Video of the AT&SF  E-6s.

I used the quantum programmer to set up the lighting functions independently... it’s a learning curve but works well...

I picked up my 3-rail O-gauge models of CB&Q E5A Silver Carrier & E5B Silver Power set last Friday at Chicagoland Hobby.  We test ran them; I like the sounds & the Mars light !

I really love the tooling, the truck skirts, the black window & nose striping on the nose, the prototypical Zephyr Gothic lettering, detailed closed pilot (with an optional open pilot & coupler), nice opening cab doors (the left side door is stuck open), engineer & fireman figures, correct version of the Burlington Route herald on the nose, EMC/EMD builder plate, & dual powered Blomberg trucks.  The diaphragms are very detailed, too.  

The E5B is also very great with powered trucks.  Mine came out of the box with a pink grease smear on one side that I wiped off with Kleenex tissue (does not appear to be any permanent damage).  

The silver paint is very nice too, butI would have preferred a simulated stainless steel finish.   

My models came with the Operating & Maintenance Instructions for the 2-rail O-scale versions. I e-mailed Scott Mann a few hours ago & he has already responded with the pdf file for the 3-rail O-gauger versions.  THANK YOU, Scott.

I realize that for these as-delivered versions of the E5A & E5B that there were no E5 plates of painted units numbers on the sides.  Although maybe not prototypical for the as-delivered time period, I do like these details & may add them myself if I can find the appropriate decals in O-scale.

Oh, the styrofoam boxes & packaging are FANTASTIC & easy to repack these models for storage !!!  Much better than 3rd Rail's steamer packaging.  

The only thing that I dislike is my E5A unit's name Silver Carrier.  Of all of the 16 prototypical Silver names on the Q's E5 fleet, this is my least favorite.  The Q's main ad slogan was EVERYWHERE WEST.  The other E5A Silver names evoke either that western theme (i.e., Bullet, Arrow, Chief), an equine theme (Racer), water-craft theme (Pilot, Clipper), or a high-speed theme (Speed, Meteor, Wings, Swift).  To me, the name Silver Carrier is as mundane & as inappropriate as "Silver Bus" for such a beautiful locomotive.  I wish I could trade it for a E5A #9910A Silver Speed so that I would al least have both #9910A & #9910B as a matched set.  I wish that these details of the Silver names & road #s had been available at reservation time so that I could have had a choice.  

I have asked Scott what are the names of his remaining E5A models but he did not tell me (maybe he will check when he is back in the office on Monday ?).  

The 3rdRail Sunset label on the box side indicates that there are 4 sets of road #s (& corresponding Silver names) for the E5A & E5B models.  Here is a list of what I have & what I can glean from your responses on this thread:

E5A
#9915A  Silver CARRIER
#9910A Silver SPEED
#9914A Silver ARROW
#9914B Silver SWIFT
#9915B Silver CLIPPER
Any more ???

E5B
(#9910B) Silver POWER
Any more ???

I am a big fan of 3rd Rail's CB&Q offerings and have their Hudson #3007, Northern #5632, Mikado #4978, & Colorado 2-10-4 #63??.  

I am very happy that 3rd Rail made these CB&Q E5 models.  Any Q O-gauge fan should get a set.  I would just like to get a 2nd E5A with a different name than the mundane Silver CARRIER.

CB&Q Bill 

Thanks to Scott Mann, Santiago Pineda, & Bob Harris for your efforts with these CB&Q E5 models !!! A FIRST in 3-rail O-gauge !!!

CB&Q Bill

FYI

BRHS (Burlington Route Historical Society) just released Burlington Bulletin No. 57 "An E5 Homage".  

This is a 99 page magazine format bulletin packed with photos, blueprints, & wonderful information on Burlington's E5 fleet.  

It is available at hobby stores and on BRHS's website for $35.00.

www.burlingtonroute.org

BRHS' 2019 Fall Meet will be in Sandwich IL on Wed 09/18, Thu 09/19, Fri 09/20, Sat 09/21, & Sun 09/22.  

I have heard a rumor that a set of 3rd Rail E5A & E5B may be on display with Lionel's semi-scale chrome-plated 60' aluminum California Zephyr cars.  

Another set of Lionel or K-Line cars may be displayed behind MTH Premier E6A set #9997AB (decorated in the Q's E7 scheme).  

2019 is the 40th anniversary of BRHS, the 70th anniversary of the California Zephyr, and the 170th anniversary of the CB&Q. 

CB&Q Bill

CBQ_Bill posted:

I really love the tooling, the truck skirts, the black window & nose striping on the nose, the prototypical Zephyr Gothic lettering, detailed closed pilot (with an optional open pilot & coupler), nice opening cab doors (the left side door is stuck open), engineer & fireman figures, correct version of the Burlington Route herald on the nose, EMC/EMD builder plate, & dual powered Blomberg trucks.  The diaphragms are very detailed, too.  

The E5B is also very great with powered trucks.  Mine came out of the box with a pink grease smear on one side that I wiped off with Kleenex tissue (does not appear to be any permanent damage).  

The silver paint is very nice too, butI would have preferred a simulated stainless steel finish.   

I'm quite pleased with the finish, Scott explored ways to match his plated brass sheets found on Santa Fe diesels. The finish is superior to Atlas CZ cars... Not plated finish, but satisfactory nonetheless. 

My models came with the Operating & Maintenance Instructions for the 2-rail O-scale versions. I e-mailed Scott Mann a few hours ago & he has already responded with the pdf file for the 3-rail O-gauger versions.  THANK YOU, Scott.

I realize that for these as-delivered versions of the E5A & E5B that there were no E5 plates of painted units numbers on the sides.  Although maybe not prototypical for the as-delivered time period, I do like these details & may add them myself if I can find the appropriate decals in O-scale.

Do as you may. It's better to get accurate engines and add whatever you feel like than getting inaccurate engines and having to upgrade them or return them...

Oh, the styrofoam boxes & packaging are FANTASTIC & easy to repack these models for storage !!!  Much better than 3rd Rail's steamer packaging.  

The only thing that I dislike is my E5A unit's name Silver Carrier.  Of all of the 16 prototypical Silver names on the Q's E5 fleet, this is my least favorite.  The Q's main ad slogan was EVERYWHERE WEST.  The other E5A Silver names evoke either that western theme (i.e., Bullet, Arrow, Chief), an equine theme (Racer), water-craft theme (Pilot, Clipper), or a high-speed theme (Speed, Meteor, Wings, Swift).  To me, the name Silver Carrier is as mundane & as inappropriate as "Silver Bus" for such a beautiful locomotive.  I wish I could trade it for a E5A #9910A Silver Speed so that I would al least have both #9910A & #9910B as a matched set.  I wish that these details of the Silver names & road #s had been available at reservation time so that I could have had a choice.  

Notice that Scott produced Phase II E5's only. Silver Speed is a phase I engine and it wasn't produced. The names were corrected before delivery. Silver Speed is wrong for phase II engines. Silver Power is correct because there were NO phases in B units. So B units were matched with both Phase I and Phase II engines.

CB&Q Bill 

Silver Swift and a B unit

Frank McCabe posted:

Here is the Rockford O Scalers Video of the AT&SF  E-6s.

 

W-O-W!!!!!

Hi Santiago:

Thanks for the post.  

Page 1 of this thread has a photo posted by Scott Mann of Silver Speed.  Was the name changed on this model before being sold into the market ?

I am a big fan of accurate paint schemes & road #s applied to models of equipment that CB&Q, C&S, and FW&D actually had.  However, I am by no means a rivet counter.  If the Phase I & Phase II details are off just a bit, that does not bother me at all.  Any O-scale or O-gauge layout will be a mix of eras with some compromises on prototypicality due to limited availability of BR models and limited space in our basements for prototypical curves & distances.  

I have a 1/1 scale stainless steel replica of an E5 model plate of the wall of my basement.  I would like to have an E5 model plate decal on my 3rd Rail E5 models so that visitors can associate the model with the reproduction E5 model plate.  

I just do not like the prototypical name Silver CARRIER & am very disappointed that the details of road # & Silver names for these models were not made readily available to ALL customers at time of reservation.  Maybe you had a choice in your road #s & Silver names (because you were closely collaborating with Scott), but I did not have any opportunity to make that choice.  

I would be completely happy with Silver ARROW, Silver SWIFT, or Silver CLIPPER.  These are expensive models; customers deserve a choice.  

As for the finish, you mentioned the Altlas O CZ cars.  Although these cars are prototypical 85' length in O-scale (21") with lots of detail, I have no plans to purchase them.  The silver paint just does not look as Zephyr-esque to me as the Lionel & K-Line chrome-plated aluminum cars.  The overhang on Atlas O's cars on 72" curves also looks much less prototypical to me than the overhang of the aluminum 60' (15") cars.  The exterior of the E5s was fabricated of stainless steel, just like the shovel nose Zephyr diesels.  

Well, enough for tonight.

CB&Q Bill

It's a good thing I didn't let the names out for people to choose. Cause they were wrong...

sdmann posted:

It's a good thing I didn't let the names out for people to choose. Cause they were wrong...

You mean there wasn't any "Hi Yo Silver"!!! Awwww Mann! 

Simon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_E5

I hope mine arrives as Silver Surfer!

Anyone doing touch up work on the E5’s vallejos silver is a close to perfect match...

Hi Santiago:

Thanks for sharing this tip.  I will get a bottle for future touch ups.  One of the truck skirts on my B unit did arrive with a minor scratch.

CB&Q Bill

Hi Scott Mann:

I called 3RD Rail Sunset's phone number on Monday & briefly spoke with Shani (not sure of spelling).  I was ready to buy another E5A & E5B set if one of the 2 available had names different than E5A Silver Carrier (AirConditioner) & E5B Silver Power (Generator).  But alas, your 2 remaining sets have the same Silver names.  

You said above "that it is a good thing that you didn't let the Silver names out . . . because they were wrong".  

Locomotive models are as much a work of art as they are prototypical replicates of the 1/1 scale object.  Your Phase II tooling gets an A+ for nailing the prototypical details of E5 Phase II.  However, in the slavish insistence on sticking to the prototypical names for Phase II, the spirit & essence of the CB&Q E5A are sorely missing from your product.  

I looked through my e-mail O-Gauge file tonight through e-mails between us from 2003 & your recent 3RD Rail/GDD newsletters.  The first mention of the CB&Q E5 occurred on 04/29/2018 in your MAY-2018 newsletter with a photo of Illinois Railway Museum's EMC/EMD Phase I CB&Q E5A #9911A Silver in its shimmering stainless steel (SS) finish with SS side fluting, black nose stripes, black grill stripes, E5 model plate, sans truck skirts, and with name SILVER PILOT on its shimmering SS sides.   This photo was repeated in 11 more newsletters from May-2018 through MAR-2019, a total of 12 times.  Between mid MAR-2019 and now, 3RD Rail issued 5 more newsletters with absolutely no mention of the E6/E5 project & without the photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM.  

The inclusion of SILVER PILOT's photo implied that you would include this road name in an E5 Phase I model with shimmering simulated SS finish with the details from the photo mentioned above.  The absence of SILVER PILOT & imitation SS finish in your final product is misleading at best & false advertising at worst.  

You say that your model is a Phase II E5. Okay, I can live with that, I am not a slave to prototypical details if the spirit & essence of the prototype is captured in 3-rail O-gauge.  I love your Phase II tooling and you get an A+ for it.  It has the side fluting, the correct Mars & headlight housing (which is different from the standard E6 housing), slanted nose, closed & open-with-coupler pilot options.  As a bonus, your tooling includes the removable truck skirts.  This tooling is a 1st in 3-rail O-gauge !!! 

I was expecting a shimmering imitation SS plated finish similar to what Lionel did with their 1980 Texas Zephyr F3AA set and their recent E7 AA set.  Instead, it has silver paint (the most striking feature of the E5 is the shimmering SS exterior).  I was wanting the E5 AB models' finish to match my 60' scale (Lionel, K-Line, Williams, & MTH) & 70' scale (MTH) plated aluminum Zephyr cars, but your silver paint job does not match those.  I wanted the E5 AB models to stand out in shimmering plated imitation SS when displayed along side my silver painted CB&Q F3s (MTH & Williams), E6s (MTH, decorated in an outstanding E7 livery with E6 plates & fictional  #9997 A&B), E7s (Williams), and E8s (K-Line).  Instead of standing out, the E5s blend in like nothing any more special.  

The window & grill nose string in black, the BR herald, the Zephyr Gothic letting, & EMC/EMD builders plate are wonderful details.  The model should have included the E5 model plates because this is in your photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM, most Q fans will want this after seeing SILVER PILOT at IRM, and their are no commercially available E5 model plate decals commercially available for your customers to obtain & apply on our own.

Last, the final insult is that I am stuck with the lack-luster name Silver Carrier, which is my least favorite prototypical E5 name.  I think of Carrier AIR CONDITIONERS when I see this name.  If you had included useful updates about available Silver Names in your newsletters, I would have selected E5A, Silver Arrow, Silver Swift, or Silver Clipper and been much happier living with this model.  By the way, there are no commercially available O-scale decals with alternative CB&Q E5 Silver Names of your customers to obtain & apply on our own.  

Are your E5B models truly Phase I or are they really Phase II B units with Phase I Silver Names ?  Besides Silver Power, what other names were used on your E5B models ?

I also did not realize from your sparse detail in your newsletters & website that there was an option to order two (2) E5A units instead of an E5A/E5B set.  If this choice had been stated in your materials, I would have opted for two (2) E5A units with 2 separate Silver Names.  

I would be a much happier 3rd Rail E5 customer if you could modify (at your expense) my E5A model to Silver Speed #9910A to match the E5B Silver Power (which is #9911B).    

Or, modify one of your remaining E5A & E5B sets to SILVER PILOT #9911A & SILVER MATE (#9911B), send them to Chicagoland Hobby or me in exchange for the set that I have.  

I have one # of each of your CB&Q steam engines, 2 of your CB&Q wood waycars (cabooses for non-Q fans), 3 of your 70' CB&Q heavyweight cars, wood coal tour, and several sets of your Little People figures.  I love all of these items.  They capture the spirit & essence of the CB&Q.  Some of the BRHS folks have told me that some of the details on #5632, #3007, & #4978 are incorrect, but I still love them.  

Please correct a set of E5 models with Silver Name(s) that I can live with and be proud to display at upcoming BRHS meets.  

CB&Q Bill

Scott Mann:

I also passed on my pre-order for Lionel's E7 AA set, which had a beautiful shimmering imitation SS side panels, to wait for your E5 models.  Please don't make me regret that decision.

CB&Q Bill.  

Bill with all due respect, you're not making any sense. You're bashing an importer for making an accurate model with an accurate name... And not guessing your personal preference... seriously? 

rdunniii posted:

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

QSI is a mess.... Thy don't know the difference between complex and complicated... ESU FTW. 

Everyone agrees, except the people who run regular DC 2-rail which QSI is still the best.  There are still a significant number of 2-railers who are DC or nothing.  Enough that they make a project go or no go.  

He is going to have to change sometime in the future unless QSI decides to change.  The availability of chips is drying up and Scott has to buy something like 15-20 thousand for QSI to make any more.

I’m a 3rd Rail fan, but I have never understood the decision to go with a hardwired decoder. Especially QSI. With Most two railers being DC the logical choice would have been to just offer a DC model and let the DCC folks install their own. Better yet do what Atlas did and install a DCC motherboard with a DC shorting plug that can be replaced with a decoder if desired.

Im a DCC guy. I am also admittedly a sound snob. My family has been in professional audio production my whole life. Sound is as important to me as details are to most 2 railers. I have a good number of units on order and I’m just not sure I want to have to gut each brand new model to replace the decoder and speaker.  I would not be happy with QSI. That’s why I sold my Atlas F units.

Any idea when the change might come and to which decoder?

CBQ_Bill posted:

Scott Mann:

I also passed on my pre-order for Lionel's E7 AA set, which had a beautiful shimmering imitation SS side panels, to wait for your E5 models.  Please don't make me regret that decision.

CB&Q Bill.  

If you are so dissatisfied with your purchase perhaps you should return it and order the Lionel E7s. 

I’m going all out in my set and loving it...

Here’s a tip Wiseman model Services (eBay) makes appropriate steam signal lines for diesels... below with some other psc parts...

E5 enthusiasts may wanna paint the wheels dull aluminum like the rest of the underbody parts such as fuel tank and trucks...

I admit, the QSI system is not for everyone. But, they seem to have the best out of the box, DC capability of any of the O Scale decoders. You can blow the whistle, ring the bell by simply flipping the polarity while running a QSI equipped engine under DC,  or get a QSI Quantum engineer and access most of the DCC functionality without having DCC.  As for durability they can handle 10 AMPs so we almost never have any failures after delivery. But if there's one thing about 2 Rail, there's a lot of variations of what people want.  So for the time being, we will continue to offer QSI systems in our models, and you may have to gut them to put your own system in them or to run DC without sound. That's model railroading. If you don't like it, change it.

I'm still bummed about NO Hi Yo Silver! 

Simon

sdmann posted:

I admit, the QSI system is not for everyone. But, they seem to have the best out of the box, DC capability of any of the O Scale decoders. You can blow the whistle, ring the bell by simply flipping the polarity while running a QSI equipped engine under DC,  or get a QSI Quantum engineer and access most of the DCC functionality without having DCC.  As for durability they can handle 10 AMPs so we almost never have any failures after delivery. But if there's one thing about 2 Rail, there's a lot of variations of what people want.  So for the time being, we will continue to offer QSI systems in our models, and you may have to gut them to put your own system in them or to run DC without sound. That's model railroading. If you don't like it, change it.

 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors. Kohs has the same strange mix of amazing detail with awful sounds.

Oddly, HO modelers are much more keen on getting the correct sounds for their models. You would think it would be the other way around with O’s potential for great sound.

jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

there are only two builders of DCC sound decoders I ever purchase: QSI and ESU.

sound is as much about the speaker installation as it is the decoder. a poorly planned and executed speaker installation ruins the best decoder.

QSI's Q3 technology is nearly unmatched in the marketplace. sure, with all the variables it can be quite daunting to sift through the multiple steps to change CVs. however JMRI makes short work of that. if QSIS had not imploded, public opinion about QSI products would be a lot different.

If 60% are DCC and 40% are DC (plus the 3-rail folks) and 100% are necessary to meet the minimum then, for the time being it's QSI or no models.  Take your pick.  Not going to say anything else or it will be political.

And why would ESU spend the time and money working up 2-rail DC when the market is so small and working it's way towards anachronism status.

I may be waiting a long time for an E6 2nd run of roads that I couldn’t get all at once BUT

How many reservations would it take to get the following to fly ????  Anyone othe than me want to see these in O gauge?TrainBub

Simon Winter posted:

sdmann posted:

It's a good thing I didn't let the names out for people to choose. Cause they were wrong...

You mean there wasn't any "Hi Yo Silver"!!! Awwww Mann! 

Simon

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EMD_E5

Hi Simon:

I like your thought.  In order to expand on their Everywhere West imagery, CB&Q would have made a better choice with either Silver LONER or Silver RANGER (instead of Silver Carrier) for one of their Phase II E5As.

CB&Q Bill 

SANTIAGOP23 posted:

Bill with all due respect, you're not making any sense. You're bashing an importer for making an accurate model with an accurate name... And not guessing your personal preference... seriously? 

Hi Santiago:

Thanks for the response.

I am not "bashing" 3RD Rail, I am providing feedback.  I gave several strong compliments about aspects of the E5A & E5B models that are FANTASTIC and constructive feedback on the aspects that completely missed the mark.  

Please remember that the only communication in 3RD Rail's newsletters & website were a few sparse words & a photo of Phase I E5A Silver PILOT #9911A.  The delivered model is Phase II (which is okay with me) but it does not carry the name Silver PILOT which I wanted even if it is a slight deviation from prototype.  Or, if 3RD Rail had communicated to its customer base via its website & newsletter on the final offerings prior to delivery, I would have then selected two (2) E5A units with different names so that I would have had at least one E5A with a name that I like (Silver SWIFT, Silver ARROW, & Silver CLIPPER) would all have been acceptable alternatives to the name Silver PILOT).  

If you are fine with the name Silver CARRIER, then would you please exchange either your Silver ARROW or Silver SWIFT for it ?  Mine is 3-rail; if yours is 2-rail, maybe we can swap out the shells.  If you live in the Chicago area, we can meet this weekend for the swap.  Good meeting places would be Museum of Science & Industry (home of PIONEER ZEPHYR), Aurora Roundhouse & Transportation Center (former CB&Q gallery cars still in service on BNSF, lunch in Q RH, EV waycar on display, historical displays in Q shop building, and many nearby wood waycars & depot museums), or Illinois Railway Museum (home of Silver PILOT, Hudson #3007, Mikado #4963, & #637). 

Scott Mann has contacted me.  He plans to call me next week to discuss the situation.  Thank you Scott.   

CB&Q Bill

GG1 4877 posted:

CBQ_Bill posted:

Scott Mann:

I also passed on my pre-order for Lionel's E7 AA set, which had a beautiful shimmering imitation SS side panels, to wait for your E5 models.  Please don't make me regret that decision.

CB&Q Bill.  

If you are so dissatisfied with your purchase perhaps you should return it and order the Lionel E7s. 

Hi GG1 4877 Jonathan:

Lionel's CB&Q E7 AA set was a build-to-order set from 4 years ago.  They are long gone now.  So no one can order this set anymore.  This set is no longer an option for me.  

CB&Q Bill

Simon Winter posted:

jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

Me! You do what you like, but I get my opinion as well. Considering the amount I spend on my hobby and the fact that I'm still in my 40's I'd say my opinion is valid.

For the love of all things unholy, re-decal to SILVER EXPRESS or SILVER BULLET or whatever SILVER name checks your boxes or just find a set of the Lionel E7s on Ebay .. to harp on and on about it being called the SILVER CARRIER or whatever it is is plain crazy.

CBQ_Bill posted:

Hi Scott Mann:

I called 3RD Rail Sunset's phone number on Monday & briefly spoke with Shani (not sure of spelling).  I was ready to buy another E5A & E5B set if one of the 2 available had names different than E5A Silver Carrier (AirConditioner) & E5B Silver Power (Generator).  But alas, your 2 remaining sets have the same Silver names.  

You said above "that it is a good thing that you didn't let the Silver names out . . . because they were wrong".  

Locomotive models are as much a work of art as they are prototypical replicates of the 1/1 scale object.  Your Phase II tooling gets an A+ for nailing the prototypical details of E5 Phase II.  However, in the slavish insistence on sticking to the prototypical names for Phase II, the spirit & essence of the CB&Q E5A are sorely missing from your product.  

I looked through my e-mail O-Gauge file tonight through e-mails between us from 2003 & your recent 3RD Rail/GDD newsletters.  The first mention of the CB&Q E5 occurred on 04/29/2018 in your MAY-2018 newsletter with a photo of Illinois Railway Museum's EMC/EMD Phase I CB&Q E5A #9911A Silver in its shimmering stainless steel (SS) finish with SS side fluting, black nose stripes, black grill stripes, E5 model plate, sans truck skirts, and with name SILVER PILOT on its shimmering SS sides.   This photo was repeated in 11 more newsletters from May-2018 through MAR-2019, a total of 12 times.  Between mid MAR-2019 and now, 3RD Rail issued 5 more newsletters with absolutely no mention of the E6/E5 project & without the photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM.  

The inclusion of SILVER PILOT's photo implied that you would include this road name in an E5 Phase I model with shimmering simulated SS finish with the details from the photo mentioned above.  The absence of SILVER PILOT & imitation SS finish in your final product is misleading at best & false advertising at worst.  

You say that your model is a Phase II E5. Okay, I can live with that, I am not a slave to prototypical details if the spirit & essence of the prototype is captured in 3-rail O-gauge.  I love your Phase II tooling and you get an A+ for it.  It has the side fluting, the correct Mars & headlight housing (which is different from the standard E6 housing), slanted nose, closed & open-with-coupler pilot options.  As a bonus, your tooling includes the removable truck skirts.  This tooling is a 1st in 3-rail O-gauge !!! 

I was expecting a shimmering imitation SS plated finish similar to what Lionel did with their 1980 Texas Zephyr F3AA set and their recent E7 AA set.  Instead, it has silver paint (the most striking feature of the E5 is the shimmering SS exterior).  I was wanting the E5 AB models' finish to match my 60' scale (Lionel, K-Line, Williams, & MTH) & 70' scale (MTH) plated aluminum Zephyr cars, but your silver paint job does not match those.  I wanted the E5 AB models to stand out in shimmering plated imitation SS when displayed along side my silver painted CB&Q F3s (MTH & Williams), E6s (MTH, decorated in an outstanding E7 livery with E6 plates & fictional  #9997 A&B), E7s (Williams), and E8s (K-Line).  Instead of standing out, the E5s blend in like nothing any more special.  

The window & grill nose string in black, the BR herald, the Zephyr Gothic letting, & EMC/EMD builders plate are wonderful details.  The model should have included the E5 model plates because this is in your photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM, most Q fans will want this after seeing SILVER PILOT at IRM, and their are no commercially available E5 model plate decals commercially available for your customers to obtain & apply on our own.

Last, the final insult is that I am stuck with the lack-luster name Silver Carrier, which is my least favorite prototypical E5 name.  I think of Carrier AIR CONDITIONERS when I see this name.  If you had included useful updates about available Silver Names in your newsletters, I would have selected E5A, Silver Arrow, Silver Swift, or Silver Clipper and been much happier living with this model.  By the way, there are no commercially available O-scale decals with alternative CB&Q E5 Silver Names of your customers to obtain & apply on our own.  

Are your E5B models truly Phase I or are they really Phase II B units with Phase I Silver Names ?  Besides Silver Power, what other names were used on your E5B models ?

I also did not realize from your sparse detail in your newsletters & website that there was an option to order two (2) E5A units instead of an E5A/E5B set.  If this choice had been stated in your materials, I would have opted for two (2) E5A units with 2 separate Silver Names.  

I would be a much happier 3rd Rail E5 customer if you could modify (at your expense) my E5A model to Silver Speed #9910A to match the E5B Silver Power (which is #9911B).    

Or, modify one of your remaining E5A & E5B sets to SILVER PILOT #9911A & SILVER MATE (#9911B), send them to Chicagoland Hobby or me in exchange for the set that I have.  

I have one # of each of your CB&Q steam engines, 2 of your CB&Q wood waycars (cabooses for non-Q fans), 3 of your 70' CB&Q heavyweight cars, wood coal tour, and several sets of your Little People figures.  I love all of these items.  They capture the spirit & essence of the CB&Q.  Some of the BRHS folks have told me that some of the details on #5632, #3007, & #4978 are incorrect, but I still love them.  

Please correct a set of E5 models with Silver Name(s) that I can live with and be proud to display at upcoming BRHS meets.  

CB&Q Bill

 

 

Good lord after reading all that you  dinged and donged with you must of lost 5 days of sleep. I for one think you want some thing personally just for you with names, and other items you mentioned.

to matched all the models from other builders you have to match these to them. you must be from Pluto because it does not work that way. An importer can not begin to match all that has been done from1912 onward. I think Scott for 699.99 imported some fantastic models, and if you had paid 3K for these you would still be winning .

I have my issues with the ones I have, which I helped put the design package together for the Mopac versions and I and Scott  talked to the builder on 3 different occasions and the still missed the mark on some items. So what can we do. You just move on and just play trains its that simple .

Next time I will try not to be//////^^^^^ ***

BH

Bob Harris posted:

CBQ_Bill posted:

Hi Scott Mann:

I called 3RD Rail Sunset's phone number on Monday & briefly spoke with Shani (not sure of spelling).  I was ready to buy another E5A & E5B set if one of the 2 available had names different than E5A Silver Carrier (AirConditioner) & E5B Silver Power (Generator).  But alas, your 2 remaining sets have the same Silver names.  

You said above "that it is a good thing that you didn't let the Silver names out . . . because they were wrong".  

Locomotive models are as much a work of art as they are prototypical replicates of the 1/1 scale object.  Your Phase II tooling gets an A+ for nailing the prototypical details of E5 Phase II.  However, in the slavish insistence on sticking to the prototypical names for Phase II, the spirit & essence of the CB&Q E5A are sorely missing from your product.  

I looked through my e-mail O-Gauge file tonight through e-mails between us from 2003 & your recent 3RD Rail/GDD newsletters.  The first mention of the CB&Q E5 occurred on 04/29/2018 in your MAY-2018 newsletter with a photo of Illinois Railway Museum's EMC/EMD Phase I CB&Q E5A #9911A Silver in its shimmering stainless steel (SS) finish with SS side fluting, black nose stripes, black grill stripes, E5 model plate, sans truck skirts, and with name SILVER PILOT on its shimmering SS sides.   This photo was repeated in 11 more newsletters from May-2018 through MAR-2019, a total of 12 times.  Between mid MAR-2019 and now, 3RD Rail issued 5 more newsletters with absolutely no mention of the E6/E5 project & without the photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM.  

The inclusion of SILVER PILOT's photo implied that you would include this road name in an E5 Phase I model with shimmering simulated SS finish with the details from the photo mentioned above.  The absence of SILVER PILOT & imitation SS finish in your final product is misleading at best & false advertising at worst.  

You say that your model is a Phase II E5. Okay, I can live with that, I am not a slave to prototypical details if the spirit & essence of the prototype is captured in 3-rail O-gauge.  I love your Phase II tooling and you get an A+ for it.  It has the side fluting, the correct Mars & headlight housing (which is different from the standard E6 housing), slanted nose, closed & open-with-coupler pilot options.  As a bonus, your tooling includes the removable truck skirts.  This tooling is a 1st in 3-rail O-gauge !!! 

I was expecting a shimmering imitation SS plated finish similar to what Lionel did with their 1980 Texas Zephyr F3AA set and their recent E7 AA set.  Instead, it has silver paint (the most striking feature of the E5 is the shimmering SS exterior).  I was wanting the E5 AB models' finish to match my 60' scale (Lionel, K-Line, Williams, & MTH) & 70' scale (MTH) plated aluminum Zephyr cars, but your silver paint job does not match those.  I wanted the E5 AB models to stand out in shimmering plated imitation SS when displayed along side my silver painted CB&Q F3s (MTH & Williams), E6s (MTH, decorated in an outstanding E7 livery with E6 plates & fictional  #9997 A&B), E7s (Williams), and E8s (K-Line).  Instead of standing out, the E5s blend in like nothing any more special.  

The window & grill nose string in black, the BR herald, the Zephyr Gothic letting, & EMC/EMD builders plate are wonderful details.  The model should have included the E5 model plates because this is in your photo of SILVER PILOT at IRM, most Q fans will want this after seeing SILVER PILOT at IRM, and their are no commercially available E5 model plate decals commercially available for your customers to obtain & apply on our own.

Last, the final insult is that I am stuck with the lack-luster name Silver Carrier, which is my least favorite prototypical E5 name.  I think of Carrier AIR CONDITIONERS when I see this name.  If you had included useful updates about available Silver Names in your newsletters, I would have selected E5A, Silver Arrow, Silver Swift, or Silver Clipper and been much happier living with this model.  By the way, there are no commercially available O-scale decals with alternative CB&Q E5 Silver Names of your customers to obtain & apply on our own.  

Are your E5B models truly Phase I or are they really Phase II B units with Phase I Silver Names ?  Besides Silver Power, what other names were used on your E5B models ?

I also did not realize from your sparse detail in your newsletters & website that there was an option to order two (2) E5A units instead of an E5A/E5B set.  If this choice had been stated in your materials, I would have opted for two (2) E5A units with 2 separate Silver Names.  

I would be a much happier 3rd Rail E5 customer if you could modify (at your expense) my E5A model to Silver Speed #9910A to match the E5B Silver Power (which is #9911B).    

Or, modify one of your remaining E5A & E5B sets to SILVER PILOT #9911A & SILVER MATE (#9911B), send them to Chicagoland Hobby or me in exchange for the set that I have.  

I have one # of each of your CB&Q steam engines, 2 of your CB&Q wood waycars (cabooses for non-Q fans), 3 of your 70' CB&Q heavyweight cars, wood coal tour, and several sets of your Little People figures.  I love all of these items.  They capture the spirit & essence of the CB&Q.  Some of the BRHS folks have told me that some of the details on #5632, #3007, & #4978 are incorrect, but I still love them.  

Please correct a set of E5 models with Silver Name(s) that I can live with and be proud to display at upcoming BRHS meets.  

CB&Q Bill

 

 

Good lord after reading all that you  dinged and donged with you must of lost 5 days of sleep. I for one think you want some thing personally just for you with names, and other items you mentioned.

to matched all the models from other builders you have to match these to them. you must be from Pluto because it does not work that way. An importer can not begin to match all that has been done from1912 onward. I think Scott for 699.99 imported some fantastic models, and if you had paid 3K for these you would still be winning .

I have my issues with the ones I have, which I helped put the design package together for the Mopac versions and I and Scott  talked to the builder on 3 different occasions and the still missed the mark on some items. So what can we do. You just move on and just play trains its that simple .

Next time I will try not to be//////^^^^^ ***

BH

Hi Bob:

No, I do not want something unique just for me.  I really wanted a model of the prototype locomotive whose photo was shown in 12 3RD Rail newsletters & their website. It is quite reasonable to expect the product to conform to the sales description.

CB&Q Bill 

VidKidz posted:

For the love of all things unholy, re-decal to SILVER EXPRESS or SILVER BULLET or whatever SILVER name checks your boxes or just find a set of the Lionel E7s on Ebay .. to harp on and on about it being called the SILVER CARRIER or whatever it is is plain crazy.

 

VidKidz:

Decals for this conversion are not commercially available.  The Lionel E7 AAs are long gone.

CB&Q Bill

GG1 4877 posted:

I hope mine arrives as Silver Surfer!

There was a CZ car names Silver SURF, either owned by CB&Q or WP.  

Now, your idea is great because an E5A Silver SURFER would be a natural companion for an E5B Silver POWER !!!

Maybe this would encourage the young Marvel & Avenger fans into the O-gauge hobby !!!

jonnyspeed posted:

Simon Winter posted:

jonnyspeed posted: 

I just wish people were as critical and demanding of sound in O as they are details and paint colors.

 

Who cares what kind of NOISE it makes if it doesn't LOOK like it SHOULD. It's a model, NOT a sound system! I want my money going toward a CORRECT model. If I want sound I'll turn on the stereo.

Simon

Me! You do what you like, but I get my opinion as well. Considering the amount I spend on my hobby and the fact that I'm still in my 40's I'd say my opinion is valid.

Describes your attitude perfectly. So everybody gets to pay for all the electronic CRAP that you want. A basic model without all the junk costs both of us the same amount. Your way, EVERYONE that wants a basic engine has to pay for junk that YOU want.

What if I want battery power and you want DCC? Would you like to pay for a Loco with battery power installed as standard, only to have to rip it out and put in DCC.

Simon

Ball bearings everywhere! 

Lionel be like “what’s that?”