A more modern model of an S scale NYC Hudson?

The only one was the American Models Empire State Express Hudson, now out of stock and unlikely to be rerun.  They do turn up from time to time:

I personally would suspect if Lionel did either a newly tooled Flyerchief or Legacy J3a Hudson, it would sell very well.

Rusty

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something?

NYC Hudsons (many of the different iterations, at least) would seem to be models that would be a guaranteed success story in S scale, given the NYC Hudson's place in toy train history.

Perhaps the reluctance on Lionel and MTH's part is a worry that an S model would bleed sales away from future O scale releases? If that is their concern, I think they are dead wrong. I seriously doubt that an S Polar Express model hurt the O scale offerings.

Jeff C

leikec posted:

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something?

MTH appears to have all but surrendered the S market with barely firing a shot, and Lionel without any serious competition can take its own sweet time.

Rusty

leikec posted:

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something?

I think a Legacy J3a would be big seller (esp if offered with scale wheel option and scale coupler compatibility), but I feel future Legacy offerings are riding on how well the forthcoming Legacy Berkshires sell.

leikec posted:

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something? <snip>

Jeff C

No Jeff, I don't think you're not missing a thing. My feeling is what the S market is missing is a well funded company that's willing to take some risks to see IF indeed there IS a market in S and if it can be grown with good product.

IMHO, both MTH and Lionel have concluded that, in their their opinion, the S market is contracting and not expanding, thus they're not going to risk serious capital in a segment of the hobby that they feel is in decline.

Andre

Hmmm...in my crazy moments (yes, most of them) I have this wild fantasy that Rapido will decide to make the J1 Hudson its first S scale model...

After all, The Central operated a Canadian mainline, and TH&B rostered two ex NYC J1 Hudsons--so it makes perfect sense...right?

Jeff C

Chuck K posted:

leikec posted:

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something?

I think a Legacy J3a would be big seller (esp if offered with scale wheel option and scale coupler compatibility), but I feel future Legacy offerings are riding on how well the forthcoming Legacy Berkshires sell.

I'm sure everyone knows but me--when are they expected to be forthcoming?

I saw the the FlyerChief Berk at a train show soon after it was released, and it looked like a nice little engine--which is odd, as I'm not really much of a Berkshire fan. But the funny thing is that I am always attracted to the S scale layouts at train shows, even when there are layouts (in all of the major scales) on display.

There's just something about the size of S scale trains--I've had an on again--off again flirtation with the silly scale for 35 plus years...and I don't think it's a coincidence that I also love my On30 trains, as the On30 rolling stock and motive power is somewhat similarly sized to S standard gauge stuff.

It always reminds me of a friend who swore he would never model in narrow gauge--even though he spent almost every vacation in Colorado. I can still remember the first time he ever saw an Sn3 layout. "Why...it seems...it seems so HO," he stammered, after walking around the layout transfixed for half an hour. He's been hooked ever since. 

I guess he had his comfort zone, and I seem to have mine.

Jeff C

December

Thanks, Chuck!

Jeff C

Rusty Traque posted:

leikec posted:

 I'm actually surprised that Lionel or MTH don't seem to see an opportunity here...most of you know the S market better than I do--am I missing something?

MTH appears to have all but surrendered the S market with barely firing a shot, and Lionel without any serious competition can take its own sweet time.

Rusty

Seems somewhat similar to what MTH has done in large scale. At the very least, you'd think another round of F units would sell well enough to bother with.

Jeff C

A Legacy J3a Hudson is at the top of my wish list. In second place was a Legacy Berkshire. I ordered some as soon as they were announced. I would buy at least two Hudsons, more if multiple cab numbers were offered. I also think (personal opinion) that the S gauge pool of buyers is influenced by what Gilbert produced so the J3a would be more attractive than a J1.

My feeling is what the S market is missing is a well funded company that's willing to take some risks to see IF indeed there IS a market in S and if it can be grown with good product.

IMHO, both MTH and Lionel have concluded that, in their their opinion, the S market is contracting and not expanding, thus they're not going to risk serious capital in a segment of the hobby that they feel is in decline.

Andre

Maybe someone like Bachmann?

After all is said and done, they do produce a ton of HO (not just US but Euro models).

They invested in G scale when Piko and LGB were feeling the recession.

Bought out William's for the O market exposure.

Most everything is made in China.

I'm frankly surprised that Fox Valley dipped a toe into the S market, but with all S scale manufacturers the mantra seems to be "don't expect too much, and you won't be disappointed."

Jeff C

justakid posted:

My feeling is what the S market is missing is a well funded company that's willing to take some risks to see IF indeed there IS a market in S and if it can be grown with good product.

IMHO, both MTH and Lionel have concluded that, in their their opinion, the S market is contracting and not expanding, thus they're not going to risk serious capital in a segment of the hobby that they feel is in decline.

Andre

Maybe someone like Bachmann?

After all is said and done, they do produce a ton of HO (not just US but Euro models).

They invested in G scale when Piko and LGB were feeling the recession.

Bought out William's for the O market exposure.

Most everything is made in China.

I wouldn't count on Bachmann.  They lost a lot of their Williams mojo in O to Menards.  I don't think they'll make any investments in S.

Rusty

Do we know who supplies Menards?

Is it made by a Bachmann supplier and sold independantly.

I doubt Menards has the market exposure that Bachmann does. Menards is primarily a "lumber/hardware" store not based nation wide.

Bachmann is known and sold Internationally...more than Lionel.

It would take someone with a mindset (and latitude within the company) similar to the late Lee Riley at Bachmann (or the late Jim Weaver at Atlas) to move a minority scale such as S scale into a different league of popularity. Those people don't tend to come around very often, but the history of On30 proves that it can happen.

Jeff C

justakid posted:

Do we know who supplies Menards?

A company called Golden Wheel makes Menards rolling stock.  Boxcars, tank cars, gondola and hoppers are cloned Williams while the caboose is cloned contemporary O27 Lionel.  The flat car based products appear to be new tooling.

Rusty

You all know that Lionel is our only real hope at a price the market will buy anything in real numbers.  Some companies build a couple of hundred a very high priced product.  We need products priced so thousands will buy and grow the scale.

Roundhouse Bill posted:

You all know that Lionel is our only real hope at a price the market will buy anything in real numbers.  Some companies build a couple of hundred a very high priced product.  We need products priced so thousands will buy and grow the scale.

It's more than just price.  It's also about variety and availability.  Given the glacial pace of the "Big 2," I don't see great improvements in that category anytime soon.

Even during the "glory days of S" of around 1990-2010 when product availability (and good price points between AM and SHS) was at it's highest, the thousands were nowhere to be found.

Rusty