The 300 LOFT ELECTRIC RAILROAD: It still runs...

Hi Mitch:

I got the 2-pack un-powered set of the Railking SEPTA MUs a few years ago, with the intention of running them plus the PS3 4-car set under the wire.  Regretfully, that project died, as it was deemed more grief that it was worth to change out all the MTH pans (with hideous rounded pan shoes) for proper brass ones, on top of the cost for the set.  Since MUs are secondary in my desired operation scheme, I ditched the idea.  However, I was without a catenary test / alignment vehicle at the time, so I installed a set of Japanese brass pans (with their own insulators) on one of them and use it to align any overhead that may need replaced or touched up.

This idea was modeled from an older SEPTA wire train that used to run.

I know that the SEPTA MUs or the cat maintenance vehicles that were made from them never had two pans, but it was convenient for the type of testing an alignment I do to have pans at both ends.

There is also a toggle switch in the undercarriage that can utilize the 3rd rail if need be, or short the 3rd rail to the overhead in a pinch.

--NMM

Veddy nice!  I like.   

Where do you get the wipers from? Did you make them?

Hi Shurlock:

My apologies for the tardy reply.  Those wipers are standard on the MTH AEM7s.  The old ones are black, the newer ones are silver, the latter of which appears more often in photos from that time period.  I still have to switch some of the detail parts from the 'old' #928 shell to the 'new' #924 shell, the wipers being one of them.

Good evening (morning) all:

This update details an addition I have been waiting quite a while for, which is the arrival of the MTH E44.

The 'era' I am aiming to model is the early to mid-80s on the Amtrak Keystone, some PA parts of the Northeast Corridor, Enola branch, Port Road, and the A&S branch, most of which were reasonably local to me growing up.  The AEM7s were new and becoming frequent, the Amfleet 1 coaches shimmered in Phase 1 paint, and heavy electrics still handled a sizable portion of the freight.  After the AEM7, my next favorite locomotive was the GE E44.  I never saw them in action personally, but for some reason the boxy, practical aesthetics combined with awesome tractive effort and loud fans are very appealing to me.  I think they looked best in Conrail blue.  I am sure I can hear some GG1 Pennsy fan sobbing somewhere.   

MTH has released an excellent treatment of the E44, particularly the PS3 version.  I have had two of them on reserve for the better part of a year, and only recently was able to bring them home; the 4407 and 4413.  They are well-detailed and the sound file is excellent.  Lighting effects are minimal, as was the case on the prototype.

There were two modifications that I wanted to make.  The first was to be the replacement of the blind wheelsets with flanged versions.  Sadly however, the trucks will not track around an O63 curve with all-flanged wheels.  Its very close, but not quite.  An O72 ruling curve or greater is required.

The second modification was the pantographs, (as always).  Anyone who reads these posts knows I am a bit of snob concerning how pans look and function on the locomotives I run.  The MTH model renders the single-stage Faiveley pan surprisingly well, except for the contact shoe, which is the same as other MTH models.

The stock contact shoe doesn't work that well with my catenary installation, and doesn't really look right.  Additionally, while the pans are sprung reasonably well, I feel they can be improved upon.

As far as the contact shoe goes, the prototype is a fairly simple, dual-surface design.

I started with the contact shoes on a brass two-stage pan.

My new E44 pan design calls for one shoe per pan, so a single brass pan is required per E44.

After the shoe assembly is pulled off the brass pan, separate the shoes and straighten the end-horn tips.

Next, remove the brass flashes, and copper contact strip from the top.  Lightly tin both sides.

The contact shoe is ready to be installed.  Now, the MTH pan must be prepared.

First, cut the ends off the MTH pan so they are flush with the mount.  Dremmel ALL of the blackening off so we have a nice surface to solder to.  It is also critical to smooth the ends off to a nice round finish.  This models the dual-surface of the prototype.

Next, flatten a contact shoe completely, and place on the pan assembly.  Center it up nicely, using the holes in the horn as a guide.

Solder it up, and round off the corners next to the pan horns for a nice smooth contact surface.

Round the horns and bend the extreme points downward...

...just like the real thing.  It is not a perfect match, but reasonably close enough for me.

We are now ready to add some improved upward spring.  I had some Atlas AEM7 pans handy, so I took the base springs from them.  They are the best sprung pans I have seen.

Now, using both Atlas springs is too much.  The pans won't stay collapsed.

The solution to that was to one Atlas spring, and one MTH spring.  This makes for satisfactory tension on the wire, and you really have to look close to see the spring mismatch from above.  I also used this trick on the MTH AEM7 pans.

Now we have a complete assembly, ready for installation.

Install the assembly back onto the E44 roof, and add a generous helping to silver conductive grease to the contact shoe and stage joints.

After doing likewise to the other unit, we are ready for individual and lash-up tests.  All tests and break-in was performed with both pans up.  Normal operation will always see the central-stage angle joint pointing forward, as the E44s were typically run, regardless of how the locomotive was otherwise oriented.

I have some videos of the tests and initial revenue service on coal drags, but I have not had a chance to upload them to YouTube yet; perhaps yet this weekend.

Thank you for reading.

Personally, I'm rather fond of electrics in blue.   

Mitch 

Fantastic work!

Peter

Very nice Nate.

This is definitely one of those "WOW" posts.   What an amazing job of engineering and implementation.   Just curious about how much time it took to build the catenary system.    Really impressive fabrication of the parts.

i am currently beginning to build a catenary system and am very excited about doing it.  Excited that is until I hear all about the trials, tribulations, cuts, and frustrations many more talented folks than I experience.   My friends are always telling me that I am not the brightest light on the string so I think that may help me in building mine in that I can blissfully ignore all the troublesome aspects of the build I keep reading about.

Thanks for the terrific details and photos.  

Ed

Hi Ed:

Thank you for posting.  As much fun as it is for me to build, it is even more fun to share.  I started construction of the track plan in November of 2015, and the catenary installation commenced in early April of 2016.  The first overhead-powered train ran on 2/17/17, around 8:45p according to my camera.  Remember that my current system uses 'simple' Euro style catenary, not the more complex Pennsy compound catenary.  When I built a system using that style in the mid-2000s, it took me almost 4 years.  I took almost no photos of that install, but I did get 1 or 2.

I am glad to hear you are building your own system; the world can always use more 'live-wire guys', as Marty Fitzhenry puts it.  I would enjoy additional details on how you are doing it, prototypes (if any), etc.

For me, a large part of the fun includes the trials, tribulations, etc., that you mention.  I am trying to model / replicate the operation of an overhead electrified railroad, similar to that which could be seen in the Pennsy era and onward.  The engineering challenges and maintenance issues are part of that operation, and I embrace it all fully.  Don't forget that the pantographs and underside of the wire often have more than enough silver conductive grease to make a mess on anything if you aren't careful!  I do try (within reason) not to get that stuff smeared all over the locomotives, but it is of no consequence if it does.  Real heavy electric locomotives were filthy.  The system can be 'troublesome' at times.  However, it is all worthwhile and very rewarding when it works, especially at speed, (see the YouTube links above).

It is a labor of love, but if you take the time to do it right from the start, and design effectively, then the problems you experience will be fewer and easier to remedy.  I have yet to experience an operational derailment or pantograph damage of any kind.  I have had two support structures fail, (as I detailed in the main post), but the wire remained intact due to the collective effort of the nearby support structure.  Sometimes things have to fail in order to learn what works.

You may or may not need help, but I would encourage you to try to do as much of your own work as possible.  I might also respectfully suggest that if your friends are always commenting on the 'brightness of your lights' (or the lack thereof), then perhaps you just need to be plugged into a different outlet, or acquire new friends. 

Nate,

It was as a result of visiting Marty Fitzhenry last year that inspired me to move forward.  His layout is nothing short of a wonderland with catenary.

My father was an engineer for the Penn working out of Sunnyside Yard driving GG-1's.   Back in the early 50’S every now and again he would take me or one of my brothers with him to work.  I can still vividly remember the 1st time I sat on his lap in the engineer seat with him as he moved the throttle.   I thought the engine was going to fall over sideways as it seemed there was so much sway going down the track.    

So needless to say I am a big fan of the PRR and GG1’s.   My father would have loved to see this being built now.

As for my perceived dimness by my friends, they would say its not that I need to be plugged into a different outlet but that I just need to be unplugged.   I would get new friends but I've had many of them for 50+ years and I am too old to find new ones.

i will post some photos, hopefully in a couple of weeks,  when I have enough completed to make a short run.  Really good advice about taking the time to do it right which is actually the same advice I got from  Marty.  

Thanks for all the tips and such. 

Ed

Hi Ed:

Well, I am rather jealous of the rich railroading history you have in your family, especially with the Pennsy.  I hope you got some pictures somewhere along the line.

You will have to pardon me, if your friends have been giving you that sort of friendly grief for that long, I must say that is rather special.  Friendships of that sort are rare, and I cannot say that I really have any right now, much to my chagrin.

I have seen Marty's layout in detail here, but not in person.  'Amazing' is an insufficient adjective for his system, even the pictures.  You are extremely well-advised if you are getting tips and / or tricks from him.  I hope someday I can see it and perhaps even sign a corner of his wall.

Please do post some pictures of your progress when you can.  I enjoy seeing how others install catenary on their layouts.

Where do you get these shoes or wipers from? Do you have to find  O scale pants from somewhere and cut them off?

Hi Shurlock:

Forgive me, I thought you were referring to the 'windshield wipers'.

The pantograph shoes on my AEM7s are scratch-built.  That process and the parts I used is detailed in the first post in this thread.  The rest of the pan is MTH standard.

The pantograph shoes for my E44s are 'scratch-fabricated' from the stock MTH pan shoe with a Japanese brass pan shoe applied inside of it.  The Japanese pans are excellent to use with overhead wire and just as good for parts, as they are well-built and have no paint to deal with.

Thanks. I do like the older MTH proto 2 GG1"s and the later p5's because the wipers on the pantographs looks so much better. I was thinking about getting another pant wiper and metal cast using pewter or some metal with low melting temp. I started casting using silicone molds and think this would be a better and a easier way of making pantograph wipers.

I made mine with K&S Metals #815024 and 815025, a 35W solder iron, a toothpick, 2 push-pins and several Aleve.  It's precision work to be sure, but I was pleased with the result, and it works very nicely with the overhead.  The MTH shoes are a good effort (on AEM7s anyway), but custom pans look and function so much better.  You are correct that some of the MTH GG1s and the P5/P5a models have excellent pans from top to bottom.  I have found the TRAXX F140 to be the same way, although they are a bit more fragile.

Amazing!

I've got a Williams she’ll if you’d like it. FOC, just email me your address. 

Thanks!

-Mario

Good day all:

I posted the first videos of the new E44s powered up on their shakedown runs around the system.  I am running both pantographs up to clean any fabrication residue from the shoes.  This is also mitigated by silver conductive grease applied to the shoes, (and arm joints as well for good conductivity).

There is significant upward pressure exerted on the wire by the extended pantograph, which is noted by the wire-flexing action. This is noteworthy considering the wire is tensioned at several pounds per square-inch. The pantograph design calls for springs from Atlas pantographs to guarantee reliable pantograph/catenary interaction at higher current flow when pulling heavy coal trains.

WESTBOUND PAST THE COACH YARD THROAT

EASTBOUND PAST THE COACH YARD THROAT

There is a 19-car train of scale empties waiting for the shakedowns to complete.  I hope to post some videos of those runs in the next few weeks.  Thanks for watching.

Fantastic !!!!!

Pantenary posted:

Good day all:

I posted the first videos of the new E44s powered up on their shakedown runs around the system.

Veddy nice!  

Mitch