A tale of 3 Mth bricks

The old MTH bricks went up to around 24 VAC, and they're NOT suitable for use with TMCC/Legacy for sure without throttling them down.  Truthfully, I'd consider replacing those bricks with the Lionel PowerHouse 180, it's a far superior unit, outputs 18 VAC, and also has an excellent intelligent electronic circuit breaker.

Mr P,

   I view this in a completely different manner, Guns and I have always differed on powering a layout.  Get rid of all the bricks and purchase a great Z4K, in fact invest in a few of them, or maybe a couple ZW-L's.  If you want to go less expensive, grab a few couple old ZW's or KW's and put 10 Amp resettable breakers between them and your tracks.  Adjust your power input to what ever levels you need using the handle settings. IMO Bricks are way to limiting to use as layout power, however one of them does have a fantastic breaker!

PCRR/Dave

Always over power your layouts with controllable voltage for best running results!  Ofcourse you must understand I am a (PWE) Professional Welding Engineer, Scotty we need more Power Always.  In fact now that I have nice size Train Room/Bar in our new home, I see a purchase of a ZW-L in the not to distant future.  No I will not be selling any of the 3 old ZW's, 2 old KW's or 3 Z4K's.  Now where did I put my welding hood, this home movement stuff has been frustrating.

personally when I was using the Z4000 & DCS I just always put the throttles all the way forward, never had a problem,  22-24 volts output at the transformer, than measure at the locomotive it was 18 or less. I have mostly MTH locomotives.  I use Lionel bricks now, only so I can turn on the transformers remotely. I run multiple engines all the time on my single loop.     

CLEM K,

   I see that Guns has corrupted your thinking, you can due the same thing with an old ZW and still adjust the power input with the handles of the ZW.   Although the Z4K must be reset after the power has been turned off by lowering the handles, the old ZW's or KW's start right up at the needed Voltage each and every time.  Then if you want to vary your voltage input for say additional switches, you still have that option also.  Trash the Bricks, or better yet sell them to Guns.

PCRR/Dave

Hum, never thought this was going to turn out like a Chevy vs Ford war, but it's entertaining... LOL

If folks want to run their Lionel on 22-24 volts, it's OK by me, just more work for the repair guys.  I'm outta' here, I've said my piece.

Mr P,

   I view this in a completely different manner, Guns and I have always differed on powering a layout.  Get rid of all the bricks and purchase a great Z4K, in fact invest in a few of them, or maybe a couple ZW-L's.  If you want to go less expensive, grab a few couple old ZW's or KW's and put 10 Amp resettable breakers between them and your tracks.  Adjust your power input to what ever levels you need using the handle settings. IMO Bricks are way to limiting to use as layout power, however one of them does have a fantastic breaker!

PCRR/Dave

Always over power your layouts with controllable voltage for best running results!  Ofcourse you must understand I am a (PWE) Professional Welding Engineer, Scotty we need more Power Always.  In fact now that I have nice size Train Room/Bar in our new home, I see a purchase of a ZW-L in the not to distant future.  No I will not be selling any of the 3 old ZW's, 2 old KW's or 3 Z4K's.  Now where did I put my welding hood, this home movement stuff has been frustrating.

Sooo . . . Three Z-4000 @ 400w each, One ZW @ 275w . . . drum roll please . . . total is 1475 watts for a layout that size.   That should just about do it.    

Bob

Sorry GRJ, didn't mean to offend you with my comment

gunrunnerjohn posted:

...consider replacing those bricks with the Lionel PowerHouse 180, it's a far superior unit, outputs 18 VAC, and also has an excellent intelligent electronic circuit breaker.

I'm with GRJ... 18v, on/off switch, lotsa power, super fast breaker... perfect!

If you look at the load current profile of an add-on 10A resettable breaker, it will take some time to open at 10A....while your electronics are cooking up medium well.

Ed

eddiem posted:

If you look at the load current profile of an add-on 10A resettable breaker, it will take some time to open at 10A....while your electronics are cooking up medium well...

You're mixing two types of needed protection here.

A circuit breaker or fuse is there to protect the transformer and wiring, not the trains or their circuitry.

The damage to the electronics will be done before even the fastest breakers trip and long before a fuse blows.  The damage to electronic circuits can be instantaneous or cumulative.  You need Transient Voltage Suppression for the electronics side.

All I have ever had were the Lionel PH-180 bricks since I got back in the hobby in 2011. I have command control only (part of the reason I got back in the hobby) and have no plans to ever run conventional. I have DCS and Legacy. I haven't had the need for any variable voltage control so far, other than for accessories, lighting etc.

I am sure some folks have a need (or want) for variable voltage for their trains, accessories, etc. Nothing wrong with that at all, everyone's needs are different and they should use what is best for them. I happen to be in GRJ's camp on the PH-180s and they have met my needs. Also, as GRJ points out, Lionel recommends not exceeding 18 or 19 volts on their Legacy/TMCC engines or damage may occur. 

I'm with GRJ on this one. I also run command control and use the Lionel PH180 bricks.

I have 18 volts, why do I need anymore or want any less than that.

On a side note: The only improvement that could ever be made to the PH180 would be to integrate a digital amp meter.

ADCX Rob posted:

eddiem posted:

If you look at the load current profile of an add-on 10A resettable breaker, it will take some time to open at 10A....while your electronics are cooking up medium well...

You're mixing two types of needed protection here.

A circuit breaker or fuse is there to protect the transformer and wiring, not the trains or their circuitry.

The damage to the electronics will be done before even the fastest breakers trip and long before a fuse blows.  The damage to electronic circuits can be instantaneous or cumulative.  You need Transient Voltage Suppression for the electronics side.

Not to mention, the electronics won't cook unless that is where the short is. As a kid, I derailed all of the time and saw the spots on the track where the "cooking" occurred.