Problems with two Lionel locomotives...

Strummer posted:

Arnold D. Cribari posted:

1. My experience, which is limited, with recent modern Lionel has been positive so far, even with one locomotive I had problems with.

2. I view the 1 year warranty period as an opportunity to get the kinks out of what I purchase, free of charge.

1. That's a good thing...although the percentage of issues you've had so far (one out of three) seems rather high.

2. Shouldn't that process ("get the kinks out") be done by the manufacturer/importer prior to the model's release to you, the buying public?

Just asking...

Mark in Oregon

You raise good points, Mark.

Bill T posted:

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Landsteiner posted:

"It may be time to switch over to MTH as Lionel may go the way of Kline and Weaver..."

Your crystal ball may need factory alignment .

Lol! If Lionel goes, this market segment will go as well. Non of the other guys holds a candle to the name and marketing of this brand. 

The Lionel brand is safe even if the current owner dumps the company. There is always some dreamer out there that thinks they can make a buck off of the name like the current owner assumed.

Perhaps you never met the late Richard Kughn.

joe krasko posted:

postwar and MPC......the way to go......

Only if you want PW and MPC.

One point should be made.  Not denying the original poster's legitimate problems or aggravation.  However.  The vast majority of Lionel (and for that matter, MTH and Atlas and 3rd Rail) products made today are problem free.  That's my experience, the experience of almost all friends and acquaintances I have heard from.  The same was true of K-Line and Weaver in the past.  I've received literally dozens of products over the last 5 years with no problems, for example.  As mentioned by Rthomps above who has bought a fair amount of stuff on the left coast from different dealers no doubt .  If quality problems were ubiquitous, we'd know about them through many dozens of purchases.

That said, there is no debating that there have been a few lemons and individual failures in this time period from Lionel, mostly in newly tooled or redesigned products.  But a few lemons do not indicate a rampant failure of quality control as some have extrapolated.  This is simply false.  While such exaggerations please a few people whose personal experiences are unsatisfactory and who enjoy spouting off about Lionel's overall "quality problems," in many instances these assertions are fake news. 

Importantly, everyone I know who has had a problem, including me in the past, has had it fixed or refunded by the dealer or Lionel.  Full stop, no exceptions.  Therefore terrifying new hobbyists and those easily convinced of distorted reality is no service to anyone except those who are feeling wronged in some way.  It's their right, but it's also our right to say, that ain't science . 

If one is buying from a reputable dealer, whether on-line or in person, Lionel and that dealer will have your back. There is literally no evidence to the contrary, just a lot angst and posturing by those who take it personally when they are inconvenienced by entropy.   I purchase with confidence based upon decades of experience.  Not saying there may not be the occasional disappointment, delay or frustration.  As in all aspects of life.

Bottom line, overstatements about "Lionel quality" and extrapolation from a few lemons or personal frustrations are common here and all over the internet for many products.  Take such assertions of doom and gloom with a grain of salt.  I do, although I find them mildly entertaining when they venture into the realm of Quentin Tarantino-like "pulp fiction."

Rusty Traque posted:

NS6770Fan posted:

 It may be time to switch over to MTH as Lionel may go the way of Kline and Weaver...

 Jim Weaver retired and K-Line had self-inflicted legal issues.  Rusty

Mr. Weaver had no role in the operation of Weaver for at least 15+ years before it folded.

RadioRon posted:

Rusty Traque posted:

NS6770Fan posted:

 It may be time to switch over to MTH as Lionel may go the way of Kline and Weaver...

 Jim Weaver retired and K-Line had self-inflicted legal issues.  Rusty

Mr. Weaver had no role in the operation of Weaver for at least 15+ years before it folded.

To be correct and keep this straight, the "Mr. Weaver" that RadioRon refers to is Bob Weaver who was the founder of Weaver Models.  Bob retired and his son in law Joe Hayter became president of Weaver models.  When it came time for Joe to retire, no buyer could be found for the business so the tooling was sold off (U.S. tooling to Lionel, now the LionScale line and China tooling to Atlas).

The late Jim Weaver was in charge of product development for Atlas O, and that company has never been the same since he passed away suddenly.  Jim Weaver was not related to Bob Weaver and Jim had nothing to do with Weaver Models.

Landsteiner posted:

One point should be made.  Not denying the original poster's legitimate problems or aggravation.  However.  The vast majority of Lionel (and for that matter, MTH and Atlas and 3rd Rail) products made today are problem free.  That's my experience, the experience of almost all friends and acquaintances I have heard from.  The same was true of K-Line and Weaver in the past.  I've received literally dozens of products over the last 5 years with no problems, for example.  As mentioned by Rthomps above who has bought a fair amount of stuff on the left coast from different dealers no doubt .  If quality problems were ubiquitous, we'd know about them through many dozens of purchases.

That said, there is no debating that there have been a few lemons and individual failures in this time period from Lionel, mostly in newly tooled or redesigned products.  But a few lemons do not indicate a rampant failure of quality control as some have extrapolated.  This is simply false.  While such exaggerations please a few people whose personal experiences are unsatisfactory and who enjoy spouting off about Lionel's overall "quality problems," in many instances these assertions are fake news. 

Importantly, everyone I know who has had a problem, including me in the past, has had it fixed or refunded by the dealer or Lionel.  Full stop, no exceptions.  Therefore terrifying new hobbyists and those easily convinced of distorted reality is no service to anyone except those who are feeling wronged in some way.  It's their right, but it's also our right to say, that ain't science . 

If one is buying from a reputable dealer, whether on-line or in person, Lionel and that dealer will have your back. There is literally no evidence to the contrary, just a lot angst and posturing by those who take it personally when they are inconvenienced by entropy.   I purchase with confidence based upon decades of experience.  Not saying there may not be the occasional disappointment, delay or frustration.  As in all aspects of life.

Bottom line, overstatements about "Lionel quality" and extrapolation from a few lemons or personal frustrations are common here and all over the internet for many products.  Take such assertions of doom and gloom with a grain of salt.  I do, although I find them mildly entertaining when they venture into the realm of Quentin Tarantino-like "pulp fiction."

Unfortunately, many folks assume VCR-level of reliability. Can't happen. These models, especially high-end locos with multiple whiz-bang features, are boutique products, hand-assembled from many parts from multiple suppliers. So long as Lionel, et al, stand behind their products for the first year, you have to assume some risk. This is life.

Side note: article in Car & Driver mag reviewing long-term experience with a not-to-be-named auto, lovely thing, discussed the manifold glitches & failures experienced. Imagine dropping $40K +/- on one of these.

As an alternative action, buy Atlas Locomotives. If anything goes wrong, Bill will give you a level of service that has been obsolete for years. Just sayin. Nick

Never did cancel the preorders. Thinking about preordering the red GG1 LionChief+ due next June. Life goes on.

 This thread is getting very "exhausting"!!

Bart1 posted:

 This thread is getting very "exhausting"!!

 

Yep....I agree.  Now the OP says he didn't cancel the pre-orders and is thinking about placing more....  The second thread posted was a repeat of this one and really didn't accomplish anything and we don't allow duplicate threads on the same topic according to our TOS....so it went away and this one is now closed as it is serving no purpose other than political comments that I had to edit and delete.