AC vs. DC - Specific Power Requirements for DISNEY LIONCHIEF PLUS 2.0 BERKSHIRE SKU: 1932080

Common for all the LC+ 2.0 are the voltage requirements.  Running with BT, you can use AC or DC and have all the features available on the BT application.  No, the switching power supply changes nothing.

What does any of this have to do with 3RS modeling?????

@gunrunnerjohn-- Thanks for the reply, so is that the section from the "Baby K4?" manual? I did not see the same thing listed in the Berkshire manual, but I was hoping this would also be the case for this loco as well.

@Hot Water-- I take it you are implying my post is in the wrong forum, and if that is the case, then obviously I would not know the answer to that question. Or most likely I was under the impression this would be considered a 3RS locomotive. So kindly share with me your opinion on where questions regarding this loco would best be posted?

@JiDi posted:

@gunrunnerjohn-- Thanks for the reply, so is that the section from the "Baby K4?" manual? I did not see the same thing listed in the Berkshire manual, but I was hoping this would also be the case for this loco as well.

@Hot Water-- I take it you are implying my post is in the wrong forum,

Correct.

and if that is the case, then obviously I would not know the answer to that question. Or most likely I was under the impression this would be considered a 3RS locomotive.

Did you happen to read the "sticky" at the very top of this forum. It fully explains what 3RS modeling is all about.

So kindly share with me your opinion on where questions regarding this loco would best be posted?

Maybe an appropriate Lionel Forum.

JiDi....why was this topic put in the 3-rail scale forum?  I moved it to the correct Lionel forum (Lion Chief).  Guys, PLEASE take the time to READ the description for the 3-rail scale forum before putting everything in it.

@JiDi posted:

@gunrunnerjohn-- Thanks for the reply, so is that the section from the "Baby K4?" manual? I did not see the same thing listed in the Berkshire manual, but I was hoping this would also be the case for this loco as well.

The LC+ 2.0 engines all use the same family of logic boards, so it would be pretty astonishing if they had different requirements.

Here's the Lionel 1932080 Berkshire User Manual.   Oddly, it says nothing about the power source, an obvious omission.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

The LC+ 2.0 engines all use the same family of logic boards, so it would be pretty astonishing if they had different requirements.

Here's the Lionel 1932080 Berkshire User Manual.   Oddly, it says nothing about the power source, an obvious omission.

Yes I found that to be very annoying, it took me quite a bit of digging in the other manuals and parts list to reach the conclusion that it must be the same as the Baby K4 since the sound board seems to be some sort of RSLite that is also used in the Plus 2.0 Polar Express. But this only made me 90% confident in my assumption and I just wanted to make sure before I put it on my DC layout. So thank you for confirming and thanks for all you do in these forums. I have researched a good bit here when building my layout and choosing my loco's, and almost every thread I came across that had the answers I needed contained input and information from you.

Also, side note. You may recall a discussion on this topic in another thread regarding the 2021 Camelbacks, and not sure if you ever got the "Why" answered from Dave regarding why the RS4 boards in the Legacy Camelback's of 2021 would not work on DC. So if not I wanted to share a message sent to me about my Camelback from support stating the following:

"While this engine is designed to work on both AC and DC power, there was a code bug in the audio board in the tender that prevented the board from coming on under DC power. If he wishes, he can send it in to have the code updated."

Yep, I found out about the issue with the Camelback, makes sense.  I doubt mine will ever run on DC, so I'll likely not bother to send it in.

@gunrunnerjohn,

I’ve been wanting to ask this since I first read about DC stuff on OGR earlier this year. What type of train/layout would benefit from DC?  When I first saw DC I kinda thought this was for battery powered stuff. It appears that many new engines can operate on DC. Is there an advantage to running DC over AC?

@texgeekboy-- While John will have a much more experienced answer for you, and if you search around these forums you will see this has been debated several times and good info can be found on the pros and cons in those threads. I can tell you for me I have sort of a special case reason for using DC, and from what Ive seen it usualy comes down to your individual requirements and the Loco's you plan to operate.

     For me personally, because of my other hobbies I have a large amount of adjustable quality DC power supplies, and a decent amount Lionel wall packs that I've gotten with Lion Chief sets I had purchased. so for me it's very convenient to just plug in a wall pack and hook it to the track instead of running a wire all the way around my track to sections that may loose voltage, due to poor continuity between the track sections or other reasons like maybe multiple accessories pulling power on a section of track. my track also runs near my ceiling throughout my basement into different rooms so I don't really have a layout where the loops are closely interconnected.

     However the two main reasons I am switching everything over to DC now, is I am using programs within Android and my Google home to completely automate my layout and using Google voice commands. so using individual DC wall packs connected to Smart wall sockets I can turn on a specific train to start running on my layout and then send it back to its side track and have it turn off. I can also do this on a timer so I can have a certain train running at 10:00 a.m. this morning and then have my steam locomotive fire up later tonight.

     I do have AC running on a loop in my office space but after running the last conventional locomotive I have which is the wild west lone ranger Lionel set I found it ran better on DC as far as smoothness and no buzzing. however in this case I lose the benefit of being able to activate the whistle and or the Bell when using one of my voltage adjustable DC power supplies but I like the chuffing and smoke and it's really all I worry about for that particular model. hope this is muddied up the waters for you some :-)

@JiDi,

Wow, a way different set of needs from me.  Yeah, I won't be doing anything like that.  In regards to

   "... my track also runs near my ceiling throughout my basement into different rooms..."

do you have some pics of that?  It sure sounds interesting.

@texgeekboy posted:

@gunrunnerjohn,

I’ve been wanting to ask this since I first read about DC stuff on OGR earlier this year. What type of train/layout would benefit from DC?  When I first saw DC I kinda thought this was for battery powered stuff. It appears that many new engines can operate on DC. Is there an advantage to running DC over AC?

Personally, for O-scale running either conventional or command, I haven't seen any reason to use anything but AC power on the tracks.  I suppose you could come up with an argument for DC in some specific instances, but i general I believe AC is the way to go.

While some new engines run on DC, most conventional engines, as well as TMCC/Legacy run on AC only.  MTH DCS will run on DC in command mode, but they also run on AC just as well.  Why complicate your life?

@texgeekboy posted:

@JiDi,

Wow, a way different set of needs from me.  Yeah, I won't be doing anything like that.  In regards to

   "... my track also runs near my ceiling throughout my basement into different rooms..."

do you have some pics of that?  It sure sounds interesting.

Not any available at the moment that show the holes through my dry wall, as its a work in progress, I am still new at this train thing. I can post some pics later tonight maybe, but they are not pretty 😁. Still haven't decided what to do for the background, was thinking of just printing some pictures of various VRE station platforms and pasting them on the wall above the track. As my main train I like to run is a supercheif I am repainting as a VRE (not scale).

@JiDi posted:

However the two main reasons I am switching everything over to DC now, is I am using programs within Android and my Google home to completely automate my layout and using Google voice commands. so using individual DC wall packs connected to Smart wall sockets I can turn on a specific train to start running on my layout and then send it back to its side track and have it turn off. I can also do this on a timer so I can have a certain train running at 10:00 a.m. this morning and then have my steam locomotive fire up later tonight.

FWIW, nothing precludes using AC to smart wall sockets to do the same thing.  There's nothing about DC that is better for this type of operation.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

FWIW, nothing precludes using AC to smart wall sockets to do the same thing.  There's nothing about DC that is better for this type of operation.

Agreed. I do declare that for my use case, Its not really about the power type, but the materials (my big bin of dc power supplies and DC terminal track pieces) I currently have at my disposal. If I had a pile of AC transformers, I would most likely have gone that route.

On that subject though, I get why AC is a far more versatile power type to use with O gauge layouts, providing compatibility with far more locomotive control systems. But for my education, in my case using only bluetooth, what would be the most modular solution?

That is to say, if I wanted a small profile AC power source, either commercially produced or home brewed that provided a constant 18VAC with the recommended protections for the equipment (both layout and the transformer itself) what would you suggest?

I know I have seen posts on hear about circuitry added to old AC transformers for various protection options, but footprint is rarely a consideration. I had considered at one point just isolating the sides with the dc power supply while the main line was AC, but I was concerned about the two pickup rollers each getting different power types supplied at the same time.

Sorry for all the questions, but if you're gonna let me pick your brain I'm putting on my bib ready to chew up some knowledge 😁  As I am very worried I may get sucked into legacy  control or an equivalent (so many cool features there).

@JiDi posted:

Agreed. I do declare that for my use case, Its not really about the power type, but the materials (my big bin of dc power supplies and DC terminal track pieces) I currently have at my disposal. If I had a pile of AC transformers, I would most likely have gone that route.

On that subject though, I get why AC is a far more versatile power type to use with O gauge layouts, providing compatibility with far more locomotive control systems. But for my education, in my case using only bluetooth, what would be the most modular solution?

If the DC works for you, then it makes sense to go that way if you have all the equipment for free.

@JiDi posted:

I know I have seen posts on hear about circuitry added to old AC transformers for various protection options, but footprint is rarely a consideration. I had considered at one point just isolating the sides with the dc power supply while the main line was AC, but I was concerned about the two pickup rollers each getting different power types supplied at the same time.

Well, you mention the added circuitry to protect electronics with AC, but the same applies to DC power.  You still want fast acting circuit protection and probably the TVS diode across each track power supply for transient protection.

@JiDi posted:

That is to say, if I wanted a small profile AC power source, either commercially produced or home brewed that provided a constant 18VAC with the recommended protections for the equipment (both layout and the transformer itself) what would you suggest?

I'd start with the Lionel Powerhouse 180, it's a nice transformer with an excellent electronically controlled circuit breaker.  Just add a TVS protection diode and you'll be all set.

I practice what I preach, all my track power comes from four Lionel Powerhouse 180 transformers.