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35 replies

Acela Pantograph issues

ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Well, at one point both of the pantographs in my non-powered unit quit working.  i did follow the instructions in the manual and reseated both of them. One works...the other is still a paperweight.  Here's the issue and questions I posed to Lionel today.

 

"Hello. Pantograph question and problem:

1. At some point do all 4 pantographs move? 

2. I’ve noticed the front pantograph on my non-powered unit never moves. (I’ve checked and it is properly installed and seated in the U channel per your “Acela Pantograph Installation manual.  is this correct?

3. Also, when I reverse direction so the non-powered unit is in the lead, it’s rear pantograph deploys as it should but also the lead pantograph on the powered unit remains raised. Is this the correct configuration?  I thought only one Pantograph should be deployed on the engine in which the train is traveling.  That pantograph is the rear pantograph on the engine. The other 3 should be down.  Is this correct? 

i have followed the directions in the manual and your “operating tips” to program/reprogam but this has not changed the behavior of the pantographs described above.  Any help, guidance would be greatly appreciated."

 

I should have paid closer attention to the operation of the pantographs from the start when everything was working so I would have had a baseline.  what puzzles me is why one pantograph on the non-powered unit works, the other doesn't and why a pantograph on the powered unit remains up when it is traveling in the reverse direction... I love this hobby. 

 

ed

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ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by leapinlarry:

I second the idea, Get with Lionel, or Marty Fitzhenry, they are very knowledgeable about this Hi End Set.  Your track has to be laid very even, no bumps or narrow curves. It runs best on 096 up....Good Luck as this is truly A Fun To Run Passenger Train.  

Happy Railroading.....

Yes, I did send the questions to Lionel this morning. (See bold in my post above).  I wish I could lay O-96 but alas, O-72 is the best I can do. The real challenge for me will be assuring the track is level/even. 

Marty FitzhenryMarty FitzhenryOGR Forum Member MEMORIALIZED MEMBER

The Acela runs with a pan up on both ends. Going forward the front pan is up on the head end and on the rear locomotive the rear pan is up.  When the engine changes direction the pans change to make the head engine have the front pan up on the head engine and the rear pan on the end engine.

 

I am lucky to live down the street from the RT 128 Amtrak station.  Not a day goes by that I do not get to see the Acela.  Dotty and I are frequent Acela passengers.  I have had many LCCA members coming to Boston in two weeks ask questions about the Acela.  When we head southbound, the Acela leaves RT 128 station and cranks up to 150 MPH.  A must experience for any train lover.

Last edited by Marty Fitzhenry
ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Thanks for responding.  Interesting. Red below  shows what happens to my train.
 
Originally Posted by Marty Fitzhenry:

The Acela runs with a pan up on both ends.(Yes, if lead engine is the non-powered unit. In which case the rear Pan of lead is up and the front Pan of the rear unit  (powered) is up)  Going forward the front pan is up on the head end and on the rear locomotive the rear pan is up. (not quite see above)  When the engine changes direction the pans change to make the head engine have the front pan up on the head engine and the rear pan on the end engine.  When the lead engine is the powered unit, only it's rear Pan is up, all others are down.

 

Under no condition does the front pan of the non-powered engine ever move. 

 

I've gone through the reprogramming drill in the manual...nothing changed.

 

 

J DaddyJ DaddyOGR Forum Member

Good luck with the "Panties" Ed... 

Only one of the four work with mine. These sometimes get bound up and the limit switch cannot reverse the direction or shut them off, they then turn to bind and burn up. What the sacrificial lamb of the system is either a triac in the the board or the motors and switches them selves.

You can do a component swap which I tend to do with mine, until the red x is found. 

Either way if you get one that stops working, shut it down so it does not burn up...

 

Did you confirm the Pantagraphs are engaged in the slider mechanism?

 

Lionel will probably want them back to repair. I would check the car tilt system too before you send them back....

ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER
Originally Posted by J Daddy:

Good luck with the "Panties" Ed... 

Only one of the four work with mine. These sometimes get bound up and the limit switch cannot reverse the direction or shut them off, they then turn to bind and burn up. What the sacrificial lamb of the system is either a triac in the the board or the motors and switches them selves.

You can do a component swap which I tend to do with mine, until the red x is found. 

Either way if you get one that stops working, shut it down so it does not burn up...

 

Did you confirm the Pantagraphs are engaged in the slider mechanism?

 

Lionel will probably want them back to repair. I would check the car tilt system too before you send them back....

I know for sure one is. I had to reseat both of them as they had somehow slipped out of the pivot points. I do think both are. Their position looks identical to the other set that is working properly.  I wonder if some linkage inside as slipped so only one of those U channels is engaging. I've asked Lionel about this issue.  Thanks for the info.

J DaddyJ DaddyOGR Forum Member

If your ok taking them apart, I would swap boards and see what happens, then swap the motor units and see which is the bad one.

I had the powered unit opened up and tried to apply a 9 volt to each motored unit, but I cannot get them to move.... might be the darn switch in the motor module....

I assumed the board is working, for there is a flashing green light on the board and it is on.... but I am going to take a digital multi-meter to it to confirm.

 

Last edited by J Daddy
ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

My Acela was running fine until this morning.  When I started it up, it went through the normal pantograph dance except one pantograph no longer moves.  The motor makes no sound.  I've opened up the non-powered unit and could visibly see one motor move.  I checked the wiring and nothing seems out of the ordinary to my eyes.  what I would like to do to isolate the issue is disconnect the dead motor from the PCB and put power to it directly. If it comes to life then I guess the Board is the issue.  However, I'm uncertain as to the DC voltage I should apply. I don't want to fry it but also want to be sure I put enough to it.  I was thinking 9 volts as I read that in some other thread.  Oh, one other question to anyone (ALEXM are you there? :-) ) that's removed the motor assembly, which and how many screws should be removed. I don't want to remove one and have some spring pop out and disappear to that place where socks in the dryer go.  Thanks.  

Last edited by ToledoEd
H Hancock52OGR Forum Member

I have not had your exact problem with mine but at one stage the pantographs simply stopped functioning and I think only a high voltage jolt from the transformer revived them. This happened totally by accident and is not my recommended repair/testing method! In any case they worked again as Marty Fitz has described and the problem has not recurred. BTW, it follows that the answers to your original questions 2 and 3 are “no” as that is not the right operating sequence. I think that the right one is described in the owner’s manual but I don’t have it on hand to check.

However, I am aware that the motor units for each of the pantographs are problematic and when I looked into sourcing spares in case any one needed to be replaced, I found that Lionel had issued a new version, I think revision B, in place of the original equipment. I think that this has some mechanical design changes. But don’t take my word for it - see what Lionel says although I suspect that if they are able/willing to effect repairs you’ll have to ship the engines in. One the other hand, there was a recent thread in which Alex M. doing repairs on the Acela and frankly he’s more reliable about repairs than Lionel itself.

ToledoEdToledoEdOGR Forum Member DIGITAL SUBSCRIBER

Thanks for the help.  I just discovered one of my 9v batteries is now a 4v battery so I'm going to put 4v to the motor I've unplugged from the PCB.  In any case I'll check the Lionel parts list and take from there.  Seems to me it's either the motor, the PCB or those little switches inside the motor shell that you can see working in AlexM's great video above.

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