Has anyone added Bluetooth to their Legacy engine or Legacy base so you could use your iPhone to control trains?
Chris
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ICab does that now with Wi-Fi but all new Legacy engines have Bluetooth as well.
Interesting. Will there be an upgrade to older Legacy engines? Maybe by a 3rd party? How will they be controlled? A new app or lionchief remote?
Chris
Chris Underwood posted:Interesting. Will there be an upgrade to older Legacy engines? Maybe by a 3rd party? How will they be controlled? A new app or lionchief remote?
Chris
looks like an opportunity for someone to step up.
not me though, I don't know enough or care enough.
but I would be interested in buying some.
Our trains are getting to be like other electronics. Out dated within several years. It will be interesting to see what the future holds. The train companies need to be smart though and keep us old guys interested.
Chris Underwood posted:Interesting. Will there be an upgrade to older Legacy engines? Maybe by a 3rd party? How will they be controlled? A new app or lionchief remote?
Chris
Legacy engines sold with blue tooth from lionel can be operated with either the universal lionchief remote or the lionchief app, in addition to Legacy/TMCC/Conventional.
I have not seen any way to retrofit older engines to be compatible with the Lionel app.
Hi All, sorry to resurrect an older thread but wanted to get some opinions on the future of Bluetooth on the Lionel Legacy engines and the phone app functionality as it compares to the Legacy Remote #990.
I am new to the hobby and I am in the process of expanding on my Lioncheif starter set with a 2018 UP AC6000 diesel with Legacy and Bluetooth. With the inclusion of Bluetooth I feel that I can get into the hobby without needing to purchase the Legacy Remote #990, at least for now. With that said, do you guys think the Legacy Remote #990 will be updated in the near future and/or will Lionel be expanding their phone app to the point where the Legacy Remote becomes obsolete. At this point in time it is my understanding that the Legacy Remote is needed for anything above basic train operation, but I figure the app could easily be updated to include this functionality moving forward.
Just curious to hear what the community thinks.
"Just curious to hear what the community thinks."
I think for at least the next few years, perhaps 5-10, the Legacy System will remain Lionel's high end control system. All locos will also respond to the universal remote and the smart device app going forward from this year, but access to unique Legacy features will almost certainly require the remote/Legacy system. I'd guess there will be some feature creep in the app that allows control of progressively more Legacy features with time, but this may not happen. If features such as layout control, control of more than 3 locomotives at once, memory for routes and repeated functions, sophisticated whistle control, etc. are desired, you'll need the Legacy system for the immediate future.
the legacy system will be around for the foreseeable future.
the issue with the blue tooth as far as I have seen is it is limited to distance 8 to 12 feet max not good for a club unless you walk with the train.
"the issue with the blue tooth as far as I have seen is it is limited to distance 8 to 12 feet max not good for a club unless you walk with the train."
Haven't had a chance to play with Bluetooth locos yet, but I had heard the range was closer to 20-40 feet. I'm not sure any Bluetooth locos from Lionel have been released, but hopefully we'll hear more if or when they are released. 8-12 feet would be a non-starter for most people, I agree, so I'm guessing that's not correct.
With bluetooth BLE, the latest version, operating distance maximum is closer to 100 feet.
Lionel bluetooth locos are already out.
a club member was running theirs and standing in the front of the layout when the loco got in the rear the loco just stopped.
believe it or not that is what happened.
"Maximum" operating distances are under ideal circumstances with no obstructions. They usually rate those in some farmer's field with a clear view! 
My experience with BT is indoor range is drastically reduced over the "spec" range. He's one of many pages on the range of BT, it's just the first one that came up in the search. 
Things You Should Know About Bluetooth Range
From that page...
While the radio performance and antennas are pretty static for a given Bluetooth device, the surroundings can vary a lot. Outdoors, in an open field, you can get a range of up to a hundred meters. But that is a rare situation. Indoors, obstacles like concrete walls will attenuate the radio signal and the effective range will be drastically reduced. In normal use, ten meters is a good guide to what can be achieved between two Bluetooth devices indoors.
Another likely variable is the smart device in use. There's almost certainly some variability in the effective range, depending on the device, state of the battery, version of Bluetooth on the device etc. First thing I'd suggest checking is whether another phone/tablet equipped with the Lionel app experiences the same problems. And I'd suggest that the second device is relatively new so one has the latest Bluetooth hardware (say <1 year old).
Yes, Lionel Bluetooth-equipped locos are out. I know because I recently picked up my first one. It's one of the Lion Chief Plus GP38s (mine is the NS First Responders).
So far, so good. App works great on my Android and am impressed with the control features. I'll have to do a "test" later and see what kind of range I get. I've got a fairly large basement so will move around and see what happens. 
I know with the LC+ prior to BT, that around 40-50 feet was the limit. I was running up at the NJ-HR club with my LC+ Camelback, and a couple times I lost it and it would stop and start beeping. I had to run around and find the beeping locomotive to get it started again. I have difficulty believing that significantly more range will be available with BT.
John,
My experiences are similar to yours. Our LC & LC+ engines will go about 40 feet (indoors) and then we start having trouble.
On our farm we use BT enabled RTK GPS systems and the range in the "Farmer's field" is right at 100 feet.
It would be nice if the engine would just keep going instead of needing a "keep alive" signal from the remote.
100 feet is nice if you happen to be running it in the farmer's field. Here in the real world, there are obstructions that interfere with the signals. 
thank you all for the feedback on this.
It seems that Legacy is not going anywhere and that it remains to be seen what bluetooth's future can be here.
For someone just getting into the hobby (with virtually no hardware yet) would it make more sense to get a Legacy and Bluetooth equipped engine or an engine that only has Legacy just in terms of future proofing?
I have a preorder for a UP AC6000 but really liking the look of the UP SD45 with kinematic couplers
* just to add, I do not yet have a Legacy control module, and the AC6000 would allow me to run the system via Bluetooth Lionchief App without needing to invest in the Legacy system for now.*
thanks,
Phil
Well, all the new Legacy locomotives will come with BT and Legacy. Obviously, that's the best "future proofing". I suspect Legacy will be around for some time as BT doesn't control all the TMCC accessories and operating cars. If Lionel suddenly stopped supporting TMCC/Legacy, they would be in serious trouble in the marketplace I suspect.
I figured I would tap into an old post to ask this.
Does anyone know when exactly BT started in Legacy models? I'm wanting to know how far back year wise and possibly first part or second part of that year so I know how far back I can purchase a Legacy model if I choose to as I do not have a command base for Legacy.
Thanks
Brad
In 2017 Vol. 2, it began appearing in Legacy engines.
Before that, it first started appearing in LionChief Plus in the 2017 Vol. 1 catalog. There are some LionChief Plus engines from the 2016 Vol. 2 catalog which were delivered with Bluetooth but were not cataloged with it. Such as 6-83610.
Like most ham radio operators know, height is gain. If clubs (or folks with big layouts) want to use wireless control systems they should consider building a podium or podiums where operators can stand higher than floor level. It may only be a few extra feet with normal 8' cielings but every bit has a real effect.
@PhilipC posted:I am new to the hobby and I am in the process of expanding on my Lioncheif starter set with a 2018 UP AC6000 diesel with Legacy and Bluetooth. With the inclusion of Bluetooth I feel that I can get into the hobby without needing to purchase the Legacy Remote #990, at least for now. With that said, do you guys think the Legacy Remote #990 will be updated in the near future and/or will Lionel be expanding their phone app to the point where the Legacy Remote becomes obsolete. At this point in time it is my understanding that the Legacy Remote is needed for anything above basic train operation, but I figure the app could easily be updated to include this functionality moving forward.
I am not at all impressed with the current generation of BT control. First off, I have what has to be a medium sized layout that is 24 x 12, and BT is not at all reliable throughout the layout for any of the Legacy or LC+ 2.0 locomotives I have. I'm sure it "could" be improved, but up to 2020 models is has NOT been improved. So for my money, I'll stick with my Legacy command system, they can keep the BT.
@PhilipC posted:Hi All, sorry to resurrect an older thread but wanted to get some opinions on the future of Bluetooth on the Lionel Legacy engines and the phone app functionality as it compares to the Legacy Remote #990.
I am new to the hobby and I am in the process of expanding on my Lioncheif starter set with a 2018 UP AC6000 diesel with Legacy and Bluetooth. With the inclusion of Bluetooth I feel that I can get into the hobby without needing to purchase the Legacy Remote #990, at least for now. With that said, do you guys think the Legacy Remote #990 will be updated in the near future and/or will Lionel be expanding their phone app to the point where the Legacy Remote becomes obsolete. At this point in time it is my understanding that the Legacy Remote is needed for anything above basic train operation, but I figure the app could easily be updated to include this functionality moving forward.
Just curious to hear what the community thinks.
Get the Legacy Remote. Not only will it run everything that’s new, with the exception of a starter set, you can run any older TMCC locomotive. I just started with o scale last year and I bought it and couldn’t be more pleased.
