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Could someone please enlighten me about the colors of the lenses used in caboose markers, and what their positions were when in service, especially on roads found in the West (SP, ATSF, WP, UP). 

From what I've gathered, they used RED, GREEN and AMBER, but I'm sorry to say I don't know  much more than that. 


Thank you,

Mark in the dark in Modesto

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From Trains magazine: 

"The purpose of classification lights was to help identify the train on which they were displayed. The three colors and their meanings were as follows:

White. Indicated an "extra" train not shown in the timetable. For much of railroad history, train-movement authority was granted by timetables. If a train was listed in the timetable, it had the authority to operate according to its printed schedule. Deviations from the timetable, such as a train running late, were handled with train orders from the dispatcher. Under this "timetable-and-train-order" system, it was important that trains kept as close to schedule as possible, and that any special trains not shown in the timetable be clearly identified as such with a white light. Many freight trains operated as extras, and thus carried a white classification signal.

Green. Indicated that, while the train displaying the lights was a regularly scheduled one, a second section was following behind it. This was done, for example, when ridership demand exceeded the capacity of a single passenger train. If there were too many passengers for a single section of, say, New York Central's 20th Century Limited, a second section was operated, and, if needed, a third, fourth, fifth, and even sixth. The engine of each section except the last would display green lights. While each section was a separate entity, the timetable's "train 25" would not be considered to have passed a given point until the last section of the train had gone by. For operational convenience, special trains that otherwise might have carried white "extra" signals were sometimes operated as advance or second sections of regular, but unrelated, trains.

Red. Indicated the end of a train. A train, be it a single engine, a group of engines, or an engine(s) with cars, must have a marker on the rear end. In the (relatively rare) situations when the last element in a train would be a locomotive, the red lights would be lit."

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As far as I know, only red would have been displayed by a caboose marker, because the sole purpose of the marker was to indicate the end of the train. Some later SP cabooses, for example, replaced the typical corner-hung marker lamps with either one or two large roof-mounted electric lights that were only capable of showing red -- the only color necessary in that location.

 

B SMITH,

His question was about caboose marker lamps, not locomotive class lights.

I can not recall the specific PRR rules, but on the Northeast four track main line, there were specifics calling out which "Cabin Car" marker lamp displayed which specific color on which side, depending on what track they were operating on.

Maybe one of our PRR experts can explain this policy further, but I'm sure I remember something about AMBER being displayed, and GREEN may have been displayed to the sides.

Yes, I know -- as the Trains explanation says, red indicates the end of the train, so is displayed on the last car, which would be the caboose of a freight train.  I think this is the general rule, with exceptions specific to different railroads. There are always exceptions of course so, as you point out, one should read the rules of a particular railroad in a particular era in order to be 100% accurate. But I guess I would still say that in general for a model caboose on a typical generic model railroad, the markers should display red.

Thank you for your input, Gentlemen. 

Further research has led me to decide on the best configuration for my application.  My hack will wear markers with three green and one red 'eye'.  Red to the rear when on the mainline, with green to the side and forward.  When in the clear in a siding, the red will face the wall, and green will be displayed fore, aft and to the side.  This, from what I've gathered, is commensurate with SP practice, and will do just fine for the likes of me!

Again, thank you for your comments and suggestions.

All the best,

Mark in Modesto

My comment on showing red to the rear in the marker applies to a train operating on the mainline. Different railroads had different rules about what color should be displayed to the rear by the marker of a train waiting in the clear on a siding and, consequently, what color would be shown to the side, since the whole marker lamp had to be rotated to change the color displayed to the rear.

From PRR Rule Book (Rules For Conducting Transportation, EFFECTIVE OCTOBER 28, 1956) :

19. The following signals will be displayed, one on each side of the rear of every train, as markers, to indicate the rear of the train:

By day, on cars not equipped with fixed electric marker lamps, marker lamps not lighted; on engines and cars equipped with fixed electric marker lamps, marker lamps lighted as at night.

By night, on engines and cars, marker lamps lighted showing red to the rear except in manual block signal system territory when clear of main track, marker lamps lighted showing yellow to the rear.

A train not equipped to display markers will display on rear of train, by day, a red flag; by night, a red light except in manual block signal system territory when clear of main track, a white light.

When cars are pushed by an engine (except when shifting or making up trains in yards) a white light must be displayed on the front of the leading car by night.

When an engine is running backward without cars or at the front of a train pulling cars, a white light must be displayed by night on the front of the movement if not equipped with a headlight.

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Tom

Thank you Bill, but your admiration may be misplaced...this isn't for an O-scale brains buggy, it's 1/8 scale. 

I've spent the last week making masters and molds (out of an old tight-grained broomstick) for the lantern and lenses which, permit me to say, came out even better than I expected!  I'd post a picture but, being black, they don't seem to photograph all that well.  I'm expecting the little 12v bulbs to arrive this afternoon and, once I get one lit, I'll give taking a picture another shot, if anybody's curious.

The caboose I'm building is freelanced, but will be the tail end of my Mogul (2-6-0), which will be detailed and lettered for the Southern Pacific, my darling railroad.  I think there's a picture of my Mogie with my signature.  It, like everything else in my life, is a work in progress...

I've attached a picture of the caboose I fell in love with, which is the 'look' I'm after.  FWIW, I think the picture is of somebody's scratchbuilt O-scale model.

Mark

Attachments

Images (1)
  • DROVER'S CABOOSE

So, almost 1 1/2" scale?  For a couple decades I was the proud owner of a 1.6" scale SP Harriman light Pacific, complete with brass 100-C-9 tender and neat little brass marker lamps.  Sold it last month.

I love marker and class lamps - and am a total SP freak.  However, I just use white or green on the locomotives, and red and amber on the cabeese - sometimes red and green.

The Mogul is one of the classic SP locomotives - I actually pulled the throttle on an M-4, but prefer the lines of the M-6.

Nice caboose, but so far, I have not seen one like that behind an SP Mogul.  I intend to get a copy of Tony Thompson's Caboose book soon, so may be able to make a more intelligent guess later.

Hi Bob2,

Right you are...there was probably never such a caboose on the SP, but my pretend branch was so insignificant that they had to build their own with whatever they could come up with!  My Little Engines Mogul isn't an exact model either, but I DO love working on it, little at a time.  I converted it from oil to Propane (the Whaleback covers the tank) because an hour poking tubes for every hour of run time got old, fast!  Doesn't smell as good though...

I'll bet your light Pacific was something to behold.  I wish I'd seen it.  Thanks for writing!

 

 

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