I understand the need for sponsors and ad revenue, but when 13 of the first 25 posts I see are advertisements, I think it's gone too far. At that frequency, it really detracts from the fun and purpose of the forum. Am I off base?
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The advertisers are trying to survive during this time and I have no problem with that.
Side Rod
Not off-base, but I think the alternative is us paying to play.
I’m OK with the advertisements as it’s not too difficult to scroll down or click to move to page 2. These guys are trying to survive without a storefront so I’m supportive and grateful for their continued sponsorship of the Forum.
I have no problem with the advertising, it is totally necessary for this to remain a free forum.
I do not mine the advertising, in some cases I learned about new products and it helps to pay the bills.
I have no problem with the ads either. This is a very difficult time. I would also suggest that if you have the financial means and you need or want something, this is the time to buy it from one of the advertisers. We need to support the people that provide us the products for this great hobby.
I would also suggest that anyone using this forum that doesn't subscribe in print or digitally to OGR that this is the time to signup. NH Joe
Skip over them, it is very easy to do.
The ads pay the bills. Just scroll on past.
dwp425 posted:Am I off base?
I think you have your answer.
jay jay posted:The ads pay the bills. Just scroll on past.
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I would rather pay a reasonable annual fee.
Even at a time like this we can still find something to complain about. Sad
If you have the wherewithal you should be ordering something from them so later when you need something our great suppliers will be here for us.
The length and frequency of ads on TV nowadays has fully prepared me for such on forums, like this one.
I agree with all of the above......it's not a mole hill to die on.
As for ads on TV....I switch to "mute", get up to stretch, grab a snack and/or libation, drain the crankcase, give the four-legged some attention, etc., etc.... Re the forum ads?.......without a 'hook' to my personal interests in the title, they're passed by.......like billboards along the highway. And, yes, I accept their existance and necessity to the forum's health and well being.
Moving on....
KD
I LIKE THE ADDS YOU GET TO FIND OUT ABOUT SALES AND SPECIALS , THEY PAY TO KEEP THE FORUM FREE TO US THANK YOU TO ALL THE SPONSORS , KEEP THE ADVERTISING COMING . REMEMBER THIS A BUSINESS FIRST AND FOREMOST IT IS HOW THEY GET PAID ,THEY NEED A PAYCHECK JUST LIKE EVERYONE ELSE DOES !!!!!!! TECHMAN
I have absolutely NO issue with advertising posts or sale announcements from Forum sponsors. I very much appreciate their continued support of this Forum, making it one of the few places I’m not having to look at pop up ads (despite pop up blocker being activated on my phone) or troll posts for Amazon.
Curt
What ads ??? - no big deal
I have ordered 2 items from this weeks specials, keep em coming.
I look at them as a well targeted information block. When I need something... there it is!
Jon 
Wow. In less than 2 hours we have almost 20 posts that say they have no problem with the ads (okay, one doesn't). I'm with the "no problem" group. Sit back, relax, stay healthy.
I bought 2 Menards boxcars because of M being here.
If there were ads within EVERY POST, that would be a headache.
I just wish in the post there would be a direct link to the items on sale or new. People do not have the time to go through the whole site just to get to the items mentioned.
And if the post does not have anything I am looking for, I bypass it.
I have no problem with the ads, they are supporting this forum. It is a good way to see what the sponsors have, if there are specials, and after all it is easy to skip over them if you aren't interested, better than commercials when streaming stuff and you can't fast forward
. I suspect if we didn't have sponsors, that if they started charging for this forum it wouldn't be as cheap as people think and I suspect a lot of people would leave if they charged *shrug*. Personally, I am waiting for the Ross Custom ad for the big blowout sale so I can buy everything I need without my wife doing something nasty to me *lol* (and yes, folks, this is said tongue in cheek....).
Since you asked for opinions.....Way off base in my opinion. Just scroll past them....takes about 5 seconds. These folks are just trying to survive and they are the ones who pay OGR to keep this forum free.
Besides, I am retired and it gives me something to do.
Donald
New Haven Joe posted:I have no problem with the ads either. This is a very difficult time. I would also suggest that if you have the financial means and you need or want something, this is the time to buy it from one of the advertisers. We need to support the people that provide us the products for this great hobby.
I would also suggest that anyone using this forum that doesn't subscribe in print or digitally to OGR that this is the time to signup. NH Joe
I totally agree with Joe about the ads and about supporting OGR. This is an terrible time for almost all small businesses. OGR is a small business, and IMO they deserve our support. I've gotten a lot out of the Forum over the many years I've been on it. If you are reading the Forum, and have the time to interact and reply to posts, I submit that you are finding it worthwhile. So help keep it going.
Gerry
No problem with the ads, everyone's got to make a living. They're a lot worse if you try to look at stuff on your phone. 
dkdkrd posted:The length and frequency of ads on TV nowadays has fully prepared me for such on forums, like this one.
Not a problem for, think DVR.
Not only off base, but out in left field. The advertisers have paid to play, unlike forum members. Some can't even show support by being a subscriber. If it ever comes to a forum fee, I am totally on board.
I have no problem with the advertisers,they are financing the Forum.Find another place where you can learn so much without paying for it.
Mikey
dwp425 posted:I understand the need for sponsors and ad revenue, but when 13 of the first 25 posts I see are advertisements, I think it's gone too far.
Well,,,,,,that's your opinion.
At that frequency, it really detracts from the fun and purpose of the forum.
Again,,,,,,just your opinion.
Am I off base?
Yes! In fact, WAY OFF BASE.
Way back in the day when a fee of $18 annually was proposed to maintain the Forum, the hue and cry in opposition was very high ..."explosive" one Forumite said later. At the time, for those 3 rail dummies like myself an annual fee was a small price for the education we received from OGR personnel and certainly from the other more experienced members.
Nevertheless, I am glad advertisers came to our rescue.
If the purpose of the ad is to draw my attention it works. I generally look at what is being offered. So far haven't bought anything but you never know. If it helps these vendors during a challenging business cycle I am all for it. To address another comment, start charging a participation fee for the forum an I am out of here.
dwp425 posted:I understand the need for sponsors and ad revenue, but when 13 of the first 25 posts I see are advertisements, I think it's gone too far. At that frequency, it really detracts from the fun and purpose of the forum. Am I off base?
Thank you for posting. I felt the same way when I came to the forum this morning. I agree that this is a problem.
Well! I normally do not have a problem with advertisers posting but when ONE Advertiser post individual ads for each item he wants to sell and takes up one half of the first page with his ads alone, I do believe it is out of line. It is the first time I have seen this done and I think he is abusing the privilege. If all the other forum sponsors were follow suit, one would be hard pressed to find anything but sales ads.
Maybe each advertiser should limit their new ad postings to one per day like the For Sale forum does for individuals.
Just how much trouble is it to move the cursor? Yikes!
jim911 posted:Even at a time like this we can still find something to complain about. Sad
If you have the wherewithal you should be ordering something from them so later when you need something our great suppliers will be here for us.
Thanks Jim...WELL SAID.....hang in and keep the faith...Joe FDNY ret.
I’ve said this before, and it seems appropriate to say it again.
If some of you were given $1 million in $100 bills, you would complain it was too heavy to carry. 
RICH: GOOD ONE! LOL!
DGJONES posted:dwp425 posted:I understand the need for sponsors and ad revenue, but when 13 of the first 25 posts I see are advertisements, I think it's gone too far. At that frequency, it really detracts from the fun and purpose of the forum. Am I off base?
Thank you for posting. I felt the same way when I came to the forum this morning. I agree that this is a problem.
Well! I normally do not have a problem with advertisers posting but when ONE Advertiser post individual ads for each item he wants to sell and takes up one half of the first page with his ads alone, I do believe it is out of line. It is the first time I have seen this done and I think he is abusing the privilege. If all the other forum sponsors were follow suit, one would be hard pressed to find anything but sales ads.
Maybe each advertiser should limit their new ad postings to one per day like the For Sale forum does for individuals.
i agree with DGJONES comments. limiting sales postings per day would be a good place to start.....2 or 3 a day is plenty.
I realize OGR Publishing is a small business, and I personally have always supported the "moms and pops" of our hobby over several decades. Our sponsors are FINE, reliable folks who presently have a more difficult time due to the annullment of train shows for the interim. I meant NO disrespect to Pat of Pat's trains yesterday in my rant, and I sincerely apologize. It was inappropriate and discourteous! I have been a member of this outstanding forum for nineteen years and it has been a great resource for both knowledge and fellowship, thanks to Alan and Rich.
A million dollars in $100 bills weighs 22 pounds. I'd give it a shot.
I've always considered the advertisers on this forum to part of our community. I don't read all the ads, it's easy enough to bypass when I'm not interested.
I don't mind them a bit.
Seriously fellas, those banner ads at the top of the forum pages, the posts on the forum about specials, even the email blasts that several of our advertisers have done recently...they all serve two purposes.
- They help keep this forum free to all of you who enjoy posting here.
- They help keep those advertisers in business by connecting them with a very well targeted audience.
I encourage you to support them, not complain about them, especially in this difficult time. We’re all in this together. 👍🏼
Rich Melvin posted:Seriously fellas, those banner ads at the top of the forum pages, the posts on the forum about specials, even the email blasts that several of our advertisers have done recently...they all serve two purposes.
- They help keep this forum free to all of you who enjoy posting here.
- They help keep those advertisers in business by connecting them with a very well targeted audience.
I encourage you to support them, not complain about them. We’re all in this together. 👍🏼
I like the banner ads: saves me from internet searches, at least.
The ads embedded in discussion threads annoy me. Why not a sub-forum for them, possibly placed at the top of the page?
I have no problem with the ads. We need them ( the vendors ) as much as they need us. End of story.
I have no problems with the adds. Many are informative and they offer good deals. But on top of that, for the hobby to survive we need these stores and manufactures to stay in business.
Marty
You forum sponsors can post all you want. I enjoy reading all your ads. I especially love seeing new custom run cars painted up for different stores.
Rich Melvin posted:Seriously fellas, those banner ads at the top of the forum pages, the posts on the forum about specials, even the email blasts that several of our advertisers have done recently...they all serve two purposes.
- They help keep this forum free to all of you who enjoy posting here.
- They help keep those advertisers in business by connecting them with a very well targeted audience.
I encourage you to support them, not complain about them, especially in this difficult time. We’re all in this together. 👍🏼
Rich, I do not believe the original poster or others are opposed to advertisers posting on the forum. I support the forum sponsors including the one who brought this whole discussion about. I also appreciate their sponsorship of the forum and thank them for being there.
But, will you not admit that 12 postings from one advertiser in one 8 hour period touting individual specials is a little excessive?
Can you imagine what the forum will look like if all sponsors decide they should also post so many different ads in the body of the forum itself?
I have been subscriber to OGR since run 92 (it was O Scale Railroading back then) and appreciate the magazine and this forum and hope we can have civilized discussions about these types of topics without being attacked for not appreciating the forum itself and what keeps it going.
Happy railroading,
Don
I have noticed the ads, but I haven't regarded them as ads, I guess. I read through a lot of them, but its a post like anything else. I click on a lot of items they have for sale because you never know, they just might have that one item I've been looking for and sometimes they do. So I guess I always look at them but really don't give it much thought as to them being bothersome.
I have no problem with the ads. We need to support our advertisers and dealers during this time.
I think it COULD become "too much" pretty easily.(not "is")
If 50% of the " recent post column" were "bait" titles daily ,I wouldn't be as inclined to wade through the crap for a gem. That's not a maybe. ( nightowls don't see the mid-day ad rush often luckily)
I play free games too; until the spamy ads increase 10 fold and wreck the actual gameplay, and I uninstall and find another (I do watch them to support until it gets stupid)
There has to balance ☯️.
E.g. really like Sunset/3rd rail Scott's posts/ads; "printed infomercial".
Ads fed me a while too I've designed, sold, bought and appreciated buying many different types of space (not here ever, darn) and reading/watching/hearing/buying from them too. There is a line where it backfires though. I don't think we are there yet, and there is always someone going to step on a line without really realizing it.
If the ad is as informative about the product as much as it is about hype, I think they are an asset. I won't buy from overly any over aggressive, regularly baity company at any price.
Some of our sponsors take the time to ID themselves in the title. I tend to look and likely for longer too ...I like being invited, not barked to.
When I'm ready to shop I use the header ads, index to advertisers, and of course, my local shop needs some support as well.
I'm confused'.. a post is a post. you don't have to click on it. And there is no free lunch! The ads at the top are cool. If you need something you look. The other ads appear to be for specials. Every other outlet and all the magazines, paper, and Ezeens are full of ads. It's not too bad on this site. It doesn't interfere with my reading. I for one have no problem with the ads'..
I think it's a good way to keep informed on new products, sales, inventory updates, etc.
I tend to click on the special run announcements, new product announcements etc., but rarely on the "Less than 5 in stock" announcements. Not an issue for me and agree with the fact that these folks have paid to sponsor the forum(s), unlike the rest of us who get the forum for free.
These advertisements are not deceptive or intrusive as what you find on internet sites. For the most part the title tells you who it is and what it is about. It is easy enough to skip over or stop and read. The banners at the top are fine but you wouldn’t know that store “X” is having sale on something you might be looking for if he didn’t post it somewhere for you to find. Also, as virtually everyone has pointed out, these advertisers help support the forum that we all enjoy.
I love ads. TV commercials are often the best part of the show.
Hal
Rich Melvin posted:I’ve said this before, and it seems appropriate to say it again.
If some of you were given $1 million in $100 bills, you would complain it was too heavy to carry.
Rich;
When I was in college back in the mid-70’s, I worked part time as a teller for Chase Manhattan in NYC... being somewhat evil, I suggest giving them the million in Sacagawea dollar coins... it would be a lot bulkier, not to mention weightier, and would give them something of import to grouse about since no one likes them 
If they aren’t available, I’d suggest the reissued 2$ bills (I think people like those even less than the Sacagaweas).
Personally, I like, and have used a number of the forum sponsors and will continue to do so - I wish them all the best in these difficult times.
I've been wondering why I'm not asked to renew my online subscription?
Alan
Look at it this way, their in lock down like all of us together. They have to eat, pay rent, mortage, pay for trains they ordered. We are the customers that can't come in their shop. Ya, I like it.
Ha! Rich Melvin is 100% correct! Funny as this scenario came up in last Sunday's episode of "Better Call Saul"
For the very few above who are complaining about the ads, please articulate for me, specifically, exactly what the so-called problem is.
We need something to get us through quarantine and no York! Advertise away!
-Greg
It is what it is. They have to try to keep business going during these uncertain times. I have no problem with that and will try to support them whenever I can.
Never better said by Jim911....additionally, think of this...why not read an ad once in awhile....or open the advertisers' link. Might be something useful gained from that reading?
I have no problem with the ads, e mail blasts etc. They keep me informed. I appreciate that the advertisers pay for all of us to frequent this forum for FREE! I support forum sponsors and OGR Magazine sponsors whenever I can. They deserve our business. I certainly wish all of our sponsors the best during this uniquely difficult time.
New Haven Joe posted:I have no problem with the ads either. This is a very difficult time. I would also suggest that if you have the financial means and you need or want something, this is the time to buy it from one of the advertisers. We need to support the people that provide us the products for this great hobby.
I would also suggest that anyone using this forum that doesn't subscribe in print or digitally to OGR that this is the time to signup. NH Joe
That's exactly what I did. I needed something and I searched throughout all of the forum advertisers until I found one (Pats Trains) that had it. When I got an email from OGR that my subscription was expiring (usually I take my time) but this time within 24 hours I renewed my subscription.
I don't mind the ads. They aren't obtrusive at all. I have been on other forums where they are WAY worse.
I purchased three items from Pat's Trains last night. If he hadn't posted the items on the forum, I would not have known about them. Also, in the process, I found several other items I'm interested in purchasing.
In this time we're all currently in, it's a win win for myself, and who I buy from, here on the forum. I'm spending money I had set back for the train shows that were cancelled in my area last month and this month.
Rusty
Though sometimes there seems to be quit a few on the first page, I scroll past them if I'm not on the market. These last couple of weeks have been way out of the norm and I have to use internet to get product, from 7 sources and I have picked up on some of the specials our sponsors have advertised.
Having been in retail for over 50 years, I say good for the Forum to allow them to post. Retailers need to reach out to the local consumers any they can.
Keep it up, PLEASE!
Each current sale irem/ announcment from one vendor should be grouped under one thread. Not 20 different ones.
As the original poster, I meant to convey the idea that generally, I'm not opposed to the ads. The banner ads are fine, and even the ones that are listed in the threads are OK. I agree that the advertiser's support of the forum is welcome and necessary. I have even made a purchase in the last two weeks from one of the advertisers! My point was that I thought the quantity and frequency was becoming a bit much (half of the first 25 posts I looked at were ads). Suggestions have been made by others that reasonable limits are imposed, or that multiple sale items are listed within one ad instead of many separate successive postings. I think those are good ideas.
The ads are fine. Look at it this way...without the internet we'd all be sitting in the house staring at the walls. As Rich always says, this doesn't happen for free. The OGR is the best RR forum around, if a couple of ads are the the only cost then fine.
Rich Melvin posted:I’ve said this before, and it seems appropriate to say it again.
If some of you were given $1 million in $100 bills, you would complain it was too heavy to carry.
BRAVO!!! Well said, maestro!
I say its time to relish the ads, the vendors, and to thank those sponsors....and the OGR Forum owners..all keeping us entertained. And this is from a somewhat grouch!
Oh yeah...foremost would be thanking all of the First Responders, Health Care folks, Grocery store & Pharmacy workers...THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESERVERANCE!
DGJONES posted:dwp425 posted:I understand the need for sponsors and ad revenue, but when 13 of the first 25 posts I see are advertisements, I think it's gone too far. At that frequency, it really detracts from the fun and purpose of the forum. Am I off base?
Thank you for posting. I felt the same way when I came to the forum this morning. I agree that this is a problem.
Well! I normally do not have a problem with advertisers posting but when ONE Advertiser post individual ads for each item he wants to sell and takes up one half of the first page with his ads alone, I do believe it is out of line. It is the first time I have seen this done and I think he is abusing the privilege. If all the other forum sponsors were follow suit, one would be hard pressed to find anything but sales ads.
Maybe each advertiser should limit their new ad postings to one per day like the For Sale forum does for individuals.
It was not the intent for forum sponsors to post like is said in the second paragraph above. Grouping items into one or two posts once per day is what I have suggested to our sponsors.
The sponsors need help at this time more than ever. This is a friendly reminder that we need to support the Sponsors just like we support local and small business in our community to help them thrive in this unprecedented time.
DGJONES posted:Rich Melvin posted:Seriously fellas, those banner ads at the top of the forum pages, the posts on the forum about specials, even the email blasts that several of our advertisers have done recently...they all serve two purposes.
- They help keep this forum free to all of you who enjoy posting here.
- They help keep those advertisers in business by connecting them with a very well targeted audience.
I encourage you to support them, not complain about them, especially in this difficult time. We’re all in this together. 👍🏼
Rich, I do not believe the original poster or others are opposed to advertisers posting on the forum. I support the forum sponsors including the one who brought this whole discussion about. I also appreciate their sponsorship of the forum and thank them for being there.
But, will you not admit that 12 postings from one advertiser in one 8 hour period touting individual specials is a little excessive?
Can you imagine what the forum will look like if all sponsors decide they should also post so many different ads in the body of the forum itself?
I have been subscriber to OGR since run 92 (it was O Scale Railroading back then) and appreciate the magazine and this forum and hope we can have civilized discussions about these types of topics without being attacked for not appreciating the forum itself and what keeps it going.
Happy railroading,
Don
Don...I don't think anyone attacked anyone else here. One of the problems I see in today's world is folks can't seem to have a discussion without feeling they are being attacked when someone doesn't agree with them. I don't disagree with you....and I posted about your concern just recently in this thread. Just because the overwhelming response doesn't see a problem doesn't mean that they are attacking those that do...it is just a difference of opinion.
Rich Melvin posted:I’ve said this before, and it seems appropriate to say it again.
If some of you were given $1 million in $100 bills, you would complain it was too heavy to carry.
Hello Rich,
I do not have any issue with ads on the Forum, so keep them rolling!!!!!!
Also I'd like to take you up on that offer of $1 million in $100 bills.
Could you please make it available to me for the next TCA York Show?
I am all for the ads. I have been suppoirting some of them with my purchases . I have been laid off for 3 weeks due to corona. First time in over 30 years I have off for more than a week at at a time. I feel bad for people raising families and don"t have a back log of savings to fall back on. One thing I have learned from this is I am never totally retiring.
ajzend posted:I've been wondering why I'm not asked to renew my online subscription?
Alan
You will soon get that "ask" when you get to 2 issues left!!!
redjimmy1955 posted:
Oh yeah...foremost would be thanking all of the First Responders, Health Care folks, Grocery store & Pharmacy workers...THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESERVERANCE!
Might I ad TRUCK DRIVERS (specifically OTR drivers) whom if not for them we all would not have much. Showers, food, the access to a restroom; difficult to find during these troublesome times for these men & women.
Rich Melvin posted:I’ve said this before, and it seems appropriate to say it again.
If some of you were given $1 million in $100 bills, you would complain it was too heavy to carry.
Hi Rich, If you want to give me $1 million in $100 bills, just let me know. I’ll go to the gym seven straight days and work out for eight hours each day and then be over to your place to pick them up.
Seriously, I have absolutely no problem with the increase in ads. Many of our dealers and suppliers are walking a very thin line during this down economy and we need to do everything we can to support them. Jim
I do not mind them. It helps me know when items are available. It has also helped me aquire items that sold out, hard to get, or I did not know existed.
Joe Gozzo
Guys, the advertising could be so much different. When I use other apps on my computer, I have to wade through ads for so many things that I really don't care about. I come here and it's like a candy store - all the ads have to do with trains! It's a joy to see what's new and who has what specials going on. And I really don't care if someone does multiple posts. In my humble opinion, it's not excessive.
Been so busy trying to keep the advertisers we have (some are very worried) that I just found this thread this morning and have been reading and responding.
I do want to say thank you to all of you that support OGR through your subscriptions and advertising/sponsorships. I sincerely wish all of you the very best as we all go through these unusual and trying times. Most importantly, I want all of you to be safe and healthy.
If you have the means, all of us small businesses will appreciate your support through your purchases. If there was ever a time we all needed to support one another (regardless of our various opinions on certain situations and topics) this is the time. Since this topic is about the forum and how advertising keeps it free for the members....let me try to give you more info about how we got to where we are right now in those regards..... For all practical purposes, the forum is a separate entity business wise from the magazine. As you can imagine, the costs to produce the magazine are more than the costs to run the forum....but the costs are different in each of those two cases. Zeroing in on the forum....as it grew over the years, the costs went from very little to considerable. Considerable at this point is tens of thousands of dollars per year. Why the heck does it cost so much you ask...especially when I can have my own website hosted for a few dollars per month. Well....it would take several pages to respond to that question so I invite you to do some research on the cost for a business to have a website as large are ours combined with the forum. There are many thousands of pages just on the forum that we pay for...and some of our costs are based on the number of page views. Last month we had well over 9 million page views! This month....oh boy....looks like we will have to dig a little deeper into our pockets cause I think the page views are going to go way up!
Years ago when there was a discussion to have a forum membership fee, it was made clear by most of the membership that they would not support such a fee....so.....how else do we keep the forum going? Well...it is obvious we had to have advertisers. Even recently....last year I believe....I proposed a membership fee of just a few dollars per year that would also offer members some bonuses, etc. Again, it was clear that the support for such a proposal was not there. If the forum was much smaller....lets say a few hundred members....then the costs would be very small but this forum has over 25,000 registered members with 3 times that many that come here and read and buy products from the sponsors! We have 90,000 plus IP addresses that visit here each month! Yet, we have committed to allowing only hobby related advertising rather than ad pop-ups like nearly all other forums have. We have resisted accepting ads for drugs, cars, real estate, investments, you name it! We will continue to do so as long as we have enough sponsors and subscribers. Right now we need both subscriptions and advertisers since neither one by itself pays the costs of producing the magazine and forum. Here on the forum MOST of you do not subscribe to the magazine. I have had many tell me that they don't intend on subscribing because they get the info they need here on the forum for free and can go to Facebook and Youtube for the rest (both of those use a lot of advertising popping up within the discussion groups).
All that I ask is that you consider what I have said above as you enjoy the forum (and hopefully a subscription to the magazine..print and/or digital). Please do what you can to support the hobby and our advertisers in a positive way.
Thanks for reading all of this...sorry for it being so long!
All My Best....
O Gauge Jim posted:Seriously, I have absolutely no problem with the increase in ads. Many of our dealers and suppliers are walking a very thin line during this down economy and we need to do everything we can to support them. Jim
As a former dealer in the model train industry, I would like to add that most dealers are walking a thin line in the best of times to bring us the products and services we all want and need. So, at this hard time especially, support our dealers and don't complain about the ads.
Alan, Very well said! Thank you and all the OGR staff for making the great magazine and Forum available. I thought as much on the information you shared, but had no idea on the numbers involved. I'm thankful for every one of our sponsors, and am happy to have them advertise! I just wish I had more disposable cash so I could purchase more from our sponsors.
OGR FORUM KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK I LOVE IT
Alan, I find your points compelling and just renewed early for two more years.
Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum and support the advertisers when possible, I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
ogaugeguy posted:Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
Well....what can I say after everything I said above.... If the recent email blasts annoy you, all you have to do is to scroll to the bottom and click on "unsubscribe". When you do that, keep in mind you are completely off of our list for any and all emails in the future....including reminders we send about upcoming subscription renewals, specials, etc. It up to you....
I want to add a little to what Alan posted, and give you an idea of the hardware required to host this forum.
This is a typical server rack of the type used where this forum is hosted. Not all of the equipment in this picture is used for this forum, but it's a great example of the level of hardware behind the scenes needed to run a forum of this size. It's not just a PC sitting on a desk somewhere!
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ALAN: THANK YOU for that perspective on the economic aspects of the magazine and the forum! I fully comprehend and I stand corrected! THANK YOU for your astute and patient leadership!
Rich, That is great you posted that photograph. Having been involved with the hardware and network side that kind of equipment for the last 20 years of a long career; I can attest to the technology, complexity, and CO$T of such! It is amazing the dollar amounts associated with the work orders I wrote once I moved from technician to engineer before retiring. It had occurred to me long ago as I realized the volume of information stored, backups, and network connections needed to provide this Forum that this is no 'small potatoes' operation! Thank you and Alan again for the insight for all who care to read this topic!! 
BTW for the readers' information, my hobby budget is not very large, but I have a print and online subscription to OGR just to help pay for the massive enjoyment and information I receive!
OGR CEO-PUBLISHER posted:ogaugeguy posted:Rich and Alan,
While I see no problem with ads on the forum I can't say the same about email blasts. While certainly not sent excessively by OGR, is there nevertheless a way to opt out of receiving them while still retaining membership on this forum?
Btw, it's any and all email blasts I dislike, not just those from OGR sponsors.
Well....what can I say after everything I said above.... If the recent email blasts annoy you, all you have to do is to scroll to the bottom and click on "unsubscribe". When you do that, keep in mind you are completely off of our list for any and all emails in the future....including reminders we send about upcoming subscription renewals, specials, etc. It up to you....
Thank you Alan for your reply.
Btw, I would suggest to everyone who buys from forum sponsors that (if they don't already do it), when they make their purchases that they as I do - mention to those dealers during the ordering that they're buying from them because they are sponsors of this forum.
Tinplate Art posted:ALAN: THANK YOU for that perspective on the economic aspects of the magazine and the forum! I understand and I stand corrected!
You are welcome....by the way, your subscription is not active....but I can help with that..
OOPS! My wife, who usually handles my renewals, has been ill and is awaiting a liver transplant, so I believe this was an oversight that will be shortly corrected!
Well said, Alan and Rich........and, thank you.
Peter
I know there has been 3 pages of responses already. But I have to be honest I haven't seen that many ads or sponsor e mails. Just a few. People need to understand that a business needs to be able to sustain itself. The business you work for HAS TO DO IT TO PAY YOU!!!!!!! NICK
Without enough ads there is no OGR forum. Free forums need quite a few more ads to continue.
rockstars1989 posted:I know there has been 3 pages of responses already. But I have to be honest I haven't seen that many ads or sponsor e mails. Just a few. People need to understand that a business needs to be able to sustain itself. The business you work for HAS TO DO IT TO PAY YOU!!!!!!! NICK
The "event" occurred about a day ago. There were a fair amount of announcements consisting of 3-4 subject lines crowding out regular subjects it the recent posts sidebar. IMO, it began to feel like those multiple ambulance chaser commercials on TV.
I know the advertisers here pay the freight, but it was getting a little out of hand. We seem to be back to our regularly schedule forum now.
I suspect it was also due to a "perfect storm" of cabin fever, some multiple new product announcements and one somewhat unpopular product (to some folks) announcement.
Rusty
We admittedly don't advertise enough on the forum but since our brick and mortar store is closed, we will certainly take the opportunity now.
We are shipping web site orders same-day or next-day they are placed.
OGR FORUM sponsors obviously believe advertising works as a form of business-related "show and tell." However, some Forum readers stated, "It's easy to skip over the ads." If some advertisers take note of that "marketing trend" and re-evaluate their ad presence, there would be some domino effects. Fewer Forum ads might mean: less awareness among hobbyists of new products and deals, less hobby news and info, and possible consideration of a fee for Forum readers as an accommodation to a financial reality check.
Mike Mottler LCCA 12394
The forum is free to all that wish to view'.. Other forums ask for donations. I think their needs to be a solution for this. Non subscribers to the magazine or the digital , are enjoying the free ride, And there is always more guests/visitors than members at any given time. We're lucky to have the sponsors carrying the load. Another problem for sponsors, as time goes by and layouts are completed, the demand for items decrease. Not for all, but for many. They need new hobbyists to pick up the slack... SO lets appreciate the sponsors while we have them. Or everyone will have to contribute more to keep enjoying what we have'....
An additional fee on top of the magazine/digital , and non subscribers may be the solution popular or not'...
One of the reasons I subscribe to the magazine is because it is related to the forum - in fact, it is the only print magazine I subscribe to.
Quarter Gauger 48 posted:The forum is free to all that wish to view'.. Other forums ask for donations. I think their needs to be a solution for this. Non subscribers to the magazine or the digital , are enjoying the free ride, And there is always more guests/visitors than members at any given time. We're lucky to have the sponsors carrying the load. Another problem for sponsors, as time goes by and layouts are completed, the demand for items decrease. Not for all, but for many. They need new hobbyists to pick up the slack... SO lets appreciate the sponsors while we have them. Or everyone will have to contribute more to keep enjoying what we have'....
An additional fee on top of the magazine/digital , and non subscribers may be the solution popular or not'...
This is a good analysis of the situation and food for rational thought. Thank you.
Alan, well said response to the comment on advertisers on the forum. Your explanation of the costs to run our forum was informative, and in my opinion, right on the money! I certainly have enjoyed the forum over the course of a decade, along with receiving a print copy of the magazine during the majority of that time period. In this day and age when a local newspaper with a hand full of pages is about ten dollars a week in our area, it seems to me the magazine at its present price for twelve issues is a bargain. The very low cost of the magazine to subscribers tells me the advertisers are picking up a good part of the tab. The fact the forum rides along in the sidecar to the magazine for no additional expense to subscribers is a bonus to me.
I've used the advertising poster board at the top of the forum pages numerous times to locate vendors, while realizing if advertisers are shown on the board, they are most likely both a legitimate and reliable vendor. Many forum members have enjoyed positive experiences with these vendors. Thanks for all your efforts, Alan
Ads are a part of a business. But the trick is to find that proper balance that invites without grating on people's nerves.
Like any other "FREE" website we visit, I'm guessing you see a bazillion ads, pop up or otherwise. As Alan points out at least here there only "OUR" hobby related and we should consider that a bonus.
I currently hold a subscription with You Tube (subscribe in this case means what I consider a small monthly fee) and do so freely. I am able to watch a lot of video content in regards to our hobby and various other subjects that interest me. This subscription allows me to watch without any advertising which really annoys me in this case and I really appreciate that. I don't know if this forum will always be fee "FREE", but if not, I sure won't have any problem paying I reasonable fee to have it.
So count our blessings that "ALL" the content on this "FREE FORUM" is only related to our hobby.
Stay safe
The advertisers have been good to me and I have no problem with their advertising.If it doesn’t interest me I just scroll past it
You could make ads optional for digital subscribers. Also the email unsubscribe could be delineated to have a few options instead of all or nothing.
Personally the ads keep me informed of what new products are available. Plus we’re all in this together. The number of dealers has dropped significantly so we need to support the ones that are left.
I am a digital subscriber to the magazine. I look forward to the issues as well as going back to previous issues. I don’t have any problems with advertisements on the forum either.
I'm with Steve, I like to see what sponsors have for sale even though most won't fit my needs. Sometimes something new hits me that it would be perfect for me. Something else would be perfect for the next guy. Keep advertising! I can delete anything I'm not interested in.
I welcome the ads from our sponsors. I have received great products and services every time I've made purchases from them. Arnold
As Alan has said and as everyone here knows these forums have several purposes. One is to educate, share ideas and show how we have fun with our trains; the other is to facilitate revenue to either OGRR and/or the sponsors and/or OGRR advertisers because part of this is a business.
I'm fine and we ALL should be fine with both purposes even if we favor one purpose over the other.
As someone once said "GET OVER IT!".
I don't have a problem with them, actually bought from 2 sponsors.
I figure the sponsors pay to be here, I don’t, so post away.
Besides, I actually enjoy reading the ads and specials.
Advertising anywhere should strike a balance of ads and content...a challenging job for those who run media.
Is this horse dead yet? We've certainly beat it enough!
gunrunnerjohn posted:Is this horse dead yet? We've certainly beat it enough!
Speaking of horses...You can't beat these horses! We have this beautiful (K-Line By Lionel) set in stock. They are ready to be painted and/or customized for your O scale diorama.
I have to somewhat agree with Gunrunner - we have certainly beat this horse to within an inch of it’s life. But I’d like to make a prediction. When the pandemic passes and we get to whatever the new “normal” looks like, the advertising horse will be resuscitated and it will go something like this... We’ve lost another one - (fill in the name of your favorite hobby/train store) didn’t survive the great shutdown of 2020 
As we all know, the whole industry is already on a very thin margin, so the shutdown may just be the final straw. I think we have to appreciate the sponsors as best we can while we’ve got them. So advertise away!!!
I used to advocate charging a very modest fee--perhaps $1 a month, even if on a strictly voluntary basis--to help support this Forum and the magazine, but gave up on that when it became obvious that many people who will readily shell out $500, or even $1,000 or more, for yet another locomotive without even batting an eye, would go absolutely nuts over just the suggestion of paying anything for something they were already getting for free. I guess that's just the society we live in today, so we rely on the fine folks in our industry to help keep this thing going. Still, if anyone might care to contribute to the cause on a strictly voluntary basis at some point, the Mountain Home, Arkansas, address for Alan and LaKeeta Arnold is always listed in the information box that follows my column in every issue. Don't send any money to me though, 'cause I might use it for one of the several engines I currently have on preorder from a couple of our advertisers. 
JR Junction Train & Hobby posted:
Speaking of horses...You can't beat these horses! We have this beautiful (K-Line By Lionel) set in stock. They are ready to be painted and/or customized for your O scale diorama.
I see what you did there!
many people who will readily shell out $500, or even $1,000 or more, for yet another locomotive without even batting an eye, would go absolutely nuts over just the suggestion of paying anything for something they were already getting for free.
I believe that's a bit unfair because we contribute to this forum unpaid. So if you want us to pay then pay for our contributions.
Correction
I don't want to be paid because I get enough from this forum as compensation. Which is why all of the stuff I post is not copyrighted or patented.
Which is why I laser cut or 3D print stuff for other formites gratis.
gunrunnerjohn posted:Is this horse dead yet? We've certainly beat it enough!
There you go....always somebody raining on someone else's parade! It is sort of nice to see a thread that supports something OGR does for a change! You guys keep posting...our sponsors appreciate the thread and this helps get the word out!
AlanRail posted:many people who will readily shell out $500, or even $1,000 or more, for yet another locomotive without even batting an eye, would go absolutely nuts over just the suggestion of paying anything for something they were already getting for free.
I believe that's a bit unfair because we contribute to this forum unpaid. So if you want us to pay then pay for our contributions.
If someone wants to be paid for sharing, then all one needs to do is contribute to the magazine that makes this forum possible in the first place. Authors are paid, and so are those who submit publishable photos for our Readers' Rails section. We always welcome new authors (layout features and how-to-do-it articles), as well as new (previously unpublished online or in print) photos for Readers' Rails. Both can be submitted electronically, just like any forum post. Some folks are willing to share information freely online and yet they still may be willing to help support the medium that facilitates this sharing. Others may not be so willing for whatever reason. Hence the term "voluntary" at this point. Now if the magazine were to disappear at some point, who can predict what might happen then?
Rusty Traque posted:The "event" occurred about a day ago. There were a fair amount of announcements consisting of 3-4 subject lines crowding out regular subjects it the recent posts sidebar. IMO, it began to feel like those multiple ambulance chaser commercials on TV.
I know the advertisers here pay the freight, but it was getting a little out of hand.
Rusty
I find it to be the "usual suspects", it equates to click bait you find anywhere on the internet. There only a very few advertisers that do this.
I stopped reading the adds when I realized the "sales " really weren't sales at all. Usually just items discounted after being marked up.
I purchase from other vendors that don't play games or post panic adds and get better deals.
Whatever, as long as the OGR Forum continues to be "popup free" I can easily scroll past things I'm not interested in.
AlanRail posted:many people who will readily shell out $500, or even $1,000 or more, for yet another locomotive without even batting an eye, would go absolutely nuts over just the suggestion of paying anything for something they were already getting for free.
I believe that's a bit unfair because we contribute to this forum unpaid. So if you want us to pay then pay for our contributions.
Uhmmm....what Allan Miller said.... Seems to me that OGR started the forum years ago. Since I have been a member of this forum (14 years) I don't recall OGR soliciting contributions on the forum As Allan said, we do so for the magazine and offer payment so if you want payment, contribute to the magazine and we will pay you. Remember, you chose to join this forum so that you could participate. No one is required to join if they want to just read posts. It is also your decision if you decide to provide a service for free for other forum members.... John may have been correct...perhaps it is time to close the thread. Instead of this continuing as something positive for our advertisers, it is drifting off topic.....as usual.
I get my OGR at my LHS. But that may have to change because of the current situation.....
My take on this is as follows, it pays for this forum, and reduces the cost of the OGR magazine we get. It also gives us multiple sites to check on a price for something, for the best price/deal.
I read every one of them...keep them coming advertisers!!
I don't buy anything modern, so I don't check out the deals. But it sure doesn't bother me none. I understand the need.
I felt the same way back in the "VL Big Boy Wars" but you need to realize that these folks pay for the forum and while we all don't want to see the ads, they are necessary to the forum. Just skip over them. A lot of dealers right now are probably able to do a good inventory and shop structuring for the first time in many years so they are probably finding stock that they want to get featured. I say keep the ads coming. Keep the forum free and enjoy. In this day an age a forum ad is the least of my worries. Some folks priorities are really messed up.
Wow, this is amazing, as for me, I think its ok for the advertising, it lets us know that they are still open and trying to help us in these crazy times. I like all the great comments from the various members that give us great and wonderful tips and techniques and I have to say that I've learned a bunch from the members of the group and like has been mentioned, those don't even cost me anything. As for the ads, I don't mind them at all, if I don't happen to like the add for some reason, I just don't mess with it. If you don't happen to like them, you can do the same thing, just don't open it or click on it or whatever. I think it is good for all of us, at least they aren't shut down and out of business until all of this blows over. Thanks to OGR for everything, it is an amazing forum with some great guys and some grumpy old buggers too, all in all, a great place to come to learn, converse with like minded people and look at some great layouts and pictures. My suggestion to those that don't like it the way it is, no one is making you read the posts. I love this place. Cheers and Happy Easter to all, thanks to all for helping me keep my sanity while I'm packing to move and waiting for my house to sell so I can move and be with my better half.
I've tried to ignore this topic. Can we just agree that some don't like any ads and that everyone else understands that they pay for the rest of us to play here?
I am grateful for our forum sponsors and the time and effort put into maintaining the forum as a service to subscribers. It would be nice to have the ability to opt out of unsolicited advertising emails while still receiving account related correspondence. The ability to set communication preferences has become industry standard for almost all sites.
