AM GG-1 Traction

I dont know the manufacture AM but if its HO or N scale or even S you might be able to go to the hardware store and find some flat rubber washers to fit the driving wheels. Do not use them on the wheels that pick up current.  All of my O scale GG1's have rubber on the drive wheels. Maybe they make a rubber washer that's semi conductive, that might work.

I have not seen the drive and wheels for an AM GG-1. Is it not the same wheelset they use on all the other diesels? I did this on an early version of the F-7. They had to make them at AM as I have one of the first versions. Have you called AM? 

http://americanmodels.com/trouble.html

I recommend giving AM a call.  

Good luck!  

Mitch 

Chuck,

I agree, call AM, I would think these will use the same wheel sets as the diesels. I see the Gripton wheel sets sell for $6.95/axle.

Ray

Addressing the questions above...

• AM = American Models
• It is S scale as this is an S scale forum.
• No, they are not the same drive wheels as AM diesels (see photo - typical AM diesel hi-rail drive wheel at the right; GG-1 drive wheels at the left).  They are much larger and none of them have a groove for tires like other AM locos.
• I will call Ron to see what he suggests.  But I am concerned that since these drivers are not on shock-absorbing type springs like a Trainmaster for example, that adding rubber tires to the middle set on a given truck will lift the other wheels from the track thus impacting electrical contact.  Also, concerned that with the electronics I have added that there is not room to add weight to the chassis, esp. above the trucks.

I spoke to Ron. His suggestion was scoring the wheels with a file.  Not too thrilled about that suggestion.

Measure the wheels on and go to your model train store and see if they have MTH or Lionel rubber covers and put one on each side of loco and it will grip to the track so much better than metal to metal. If you don't want to do that you may want to try liquid electrical tape and put it on a couple of wheels real neatly and let dry. This will give you grip too but will wear off in time.

Chuck K posted:

Addressing the questions above...

• I will call Ron to see what he suggests.  But I am concerned that since these drivers are not on shock-absorbing type springs like a Trainmaster for example, that adding rubber tires to the middle set on a given truck will lift the other wheels from the track thus impacting electrical contact.  Also, concerned that with the electronics I have added that there is not room to add weight to the chassis, esp. above the trucks.

I'd try adding tires to the inner wheelsets; less chance of a teeter-totter effect that way.

Mitch 

Chuck, 

An option I hesitate to mention but may be the only alternative to the BS, do you have any one, a club member or friend who could machine a groove in some of the wheels to fit a traction tire or an O-ring?

Ray

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Chuck K posted:

Addressing the questions above...

• I will call Ron to see what he suggests.  But I am concerned that since these drivers are not on shock-absorbing type springs like a Trainmaster for example, that adding rubber tires to the middle set on a given truck will lift the other wheels from the track thus impacting electrical contact.  Also, concerned that with the electronics I have added that there is not room to add weight to the chassis, esp. above the trucks.

I'd try adding tires to the inner wheelsets; less chance of a teeter-totter effect that way.

Mitch 

I'll try that out, but it's only the middle wheelsets on each truck that are not part of the electrical pickup, so I'll have to see how doing this to the inner wheelsets impacts connectivity.

Rayin"S" posted:

Chuck, 

An option I hesitate to mention but may be the only alternative to the BS, do you have any one, a club member or friend who could machine a groove in some of the wheels to fit a traction tire or an O-ring?

Ray

Interesting idea Ray.  No I don't know anyone who has that skill and equipment, but I know some very experienced modelers who might have such contacts.   I am going to start with Bullfrog Snot and see if that does the trick.  I am not a big fan of it though; I can never seem to get it on smoothly and it wears off pretty quickly. 

Chuck K posted:

M. Mitchell Marmel posted:

Chuck K posted:

Addressing the questions above...

• I will call Ron to see what he suggests.  But I am concerned that since these drivers are not on shock-absorbing type springs like a Trainmaster for example, that adding rubber tires to the middle set on a given truck will lift the other wheels from the track thus impacting electrical contact.  Also, concerned that with the electronics I have added that there is not room to add weight to the chassis, esp. above the trucks.

I'd try adding tires to the inner wheelsets; less chance of a teeter-totter effect that way.

Mitch 

I'll try that out, but it's only the middle wheelsets on each truck that are not part of the electrical pickup, so I'll have to see how doing this to the inner wheelsets impacts connectivity.

Can you rig the pony trucks for electrical pickup?

I noticed that the coating painted on the wheel surface was particularly slick.  So I used a plastic brush attachment and my Dremel to remove it from all six wheelsets (from track facing part only). This improved traction greatly.  Now it is easily pulling 3 Budd cars up the grade referenced above. It struggles with 4 though, so next move is to add as many of my lttle lead weights as I can to the chassis given that chassis is mostly covered with TMCC boards, speakers and wiring. Still trying to avoid Bullfrog Snot and have a permanent solution.

Chuck K posted:

Has anyone added traction to their AM GG-1 wheels since tires are not sold for these?  I got one for Christmas that I converted to TMCC w/ Cruise Lite and Railsounds. It is spinning wheels trying to pull just 2 Budd cars up one of my grades. If you used something other than Bullfrog Snot, I'd love to hear about it.  I was thinking of cutting and trimming some replacement bands for Gilbert steamers from Port Lines.

Chuck,

Just curious.  What kind of Budd cars are you pulling, those from American Models?  My GG-1 can pull 5 or 6 AM heavyweights anywhere on my layout with ease.  I've had my "motor" for years since it was one of the first ones issued by AM, and it was the thing that got me back into S.  Are the wheels on the Budd cars lubed?  The company recommends white lithium.  They also have wipers that may hinder easy pulling.  The only Budd cars I have are a 5 car set of scale wheeled ones pulled by their streamlined PRR Hudson and two custom painted ones in a longer consist pulled by a single F unit. 

Also how steep are your grades?  Flyer style?  How about what brand of track?  Scale or Hi-Rail?

Jerry,

It is an AM Pennsy chrome set. Yes, I have checked and lubed all of the wheels. They are spinning freely. I use hi-rail wheels and Flyonel Fastrack. The grade is steep, on the order of 4% - 4.5% (beginner's mistake). But I have other AM engines that handle the grade and 4 Budd cars (5 with my E-8) with no problem, of course they have the Gription tires though.

I'll see if my plan to add weight works, if not, I'll try Bullfrog Snot or some type of customized tire.

Thanks

Chuck K posted:

Jerry,

It is an AM Pennsy chrome set. Yes, I have checked and lubed all of the wheels. They are spinning freely. I use hi-rail wheels and Flyonel Fastrack. The grade is steep, on the order of 4% - 4.5% (beginner's mistake). But I have other AM engines that handle the grade and 4 Budd cars (5 with my E-8) with no problem, of course they have the Gription tires though.

I'll see if my plan to add weight works, if not, I'll try Bullfrog Snot or some type of customized tire.

Thanks

Chuck,

It sounds like the steep grade might be the problem.  If so, not much can be done about it.  Since you've installed TMCC w/ Cruise Lite and Railsounds, you got rid of the large capacitor that is in mine (I said it was an OLD unit).  That frees up a lot of space, but I don't know how much space your TMCC w/ Cruise Lite and Railsounds takes up.  My point is, perhaps more weight will help.  I use automobile tire weights for more traction.  The local tire store has them for free since sometimes removing them breaks them.  I affix them with double sided foam tape.  Auto parts stores also sell lead stick-on weights.  I sometimes use scrap pieces of brass bar stock the same way.  If you have room, try removing the shell and keep adding weight to available space and see if it helps.  

As much as I like to see smoke from my steamers, it leaves a residue on the tracks which I have to clean off with alcohol.  But I guess you've already done that. 

AM's GG1 is a very nice looking and performing unit, and I'm glad I have one.  I also added directional headlights, classification lights and illuminated number boards.  So removing the shell on mine is tricky.

In the photo, my GG1 is the green one in the middle on my club's display layout a few years ago.  Of course, it's all "on the level".

Thanks Jerry. That's an interesting thought about getting used tire balancing weights for free.  I have a small stock of pinewood derby car weights. They come in strips and can be cut into small sections.  I cut up a stack yesterday and am going to do just that, i.e. fit a bunch of them in wherever I can find space.

Yes, I have definitely cleaned the track. I clean the track on that grade almost every time I run trains to make sure my locos are getting all the traction they can.

The lighting you have added sounds great.  I need to take a look at adding more than just the directionals I put in.

I do not have a GG1 but I do have an AM PA-PA set with scale wheels, no traction tires. They are converted to TMCC/RS. One engine alone is not a good puller and grades are a problem. I built a lash up in Legacy and pull six AM heavyweights with the two engine set. The heavyweights are all converted to the three axle trucks and very free rolling. The layout is MTH/SHS .138 flextrack. The ruling grade is 2.2% rising 6.5" and includes a 180deg 62"diameter curve. Based on my experience with the PA set I think the only way to pull 4 Budd style cars up a 4% grade with one GG1 is traction tires.

One of the things to remember is an AM Budd car weighs 1 pound 3 ounces.  The 72' heavyweights weigh 13 ounces.

I ran a test with my GG1: Scale wheels, code 100 track, sort of level, approximate 33" radius curves.

Staring with the 4 car set, there were no problems.  Adding the 3 add-on coaches, I noticed some slipping on the curves.  Adding the first dome, the GG1 began to slip a little starting out along with some slipping on the curves.  By the time I added the other 2 domes, the GG1 was slipping on all the curves but still managing to pull all 10 Budd cars.  (About 12 pounds worth of train...)  I could bring the train to a stop while being able to watch the wheels slipping at low speed.

Normally, I pull this 10 car behemoth with a pair of AM E8's with no slipping.

Rusty