American Flyer GP7 FlyerChief Info

You would then get a locomotive with eight wheel drive, yes, it would mean some additional re-design but I wouldn't think it was insurmountable to do.

Not insurmountable but additional expense. The truck being considered for the new GP7 is probably a reuse of the current Baldwin truck which was changed to vertical drive a few models ago. Reuse of existing parts is a money saver. I too wouldn't mind a dual motor GP but I understand the price point considerations. The vertical motors are much better pullers than the horizontal cans were.

 

Rich

I do not post much and yes I am an S Gauger.  Interesting discussions.  I have not bought anything for years but i did buy the Berkshire ( oh wait since it is C&O so it is  a can a something).  I missed the TMCC and Legacy boat at the dock.

I am a self described low railer  a step above total toy but no where near the Stover/Tuveson hi rail.

I thought if there was a Santa Fe  blue GP I would consider.  Well guess what.  Yes I also have an axe to grind  with the L for lot of reasons going back to  the crabby lady in Mount Clemens. 

I am pleased that Lionel responded.  Maybe I am the target market.  In any case the moths are coming  out of my wallet.

Cal

richabr posted:

The truck being considered for the new GP7 is probably a reuse of the current Baldwin truck which was changed to vertical drive a few models ago. Reuse of existing parts is a money saver. I too wouldn't mind a dual motor GP but I understand the price point considerations. The vertical motors are much better pullers than the horizontal cans were.

 

Rich

There's no "probably" about it.  Dave Olson from Lionel has stated that it's the Baldwin truck.

Rusty

richabr posted:

You would then get a locomotive with eight wheel drive, yes, it would mean some additional re-design but I wouldn't think it was insurmountable to do.

Not insurmountable but additional expense. The truck being considered for the new GP7 is probably a reuse of the current Baldwin truck which was changed to vertical drive a few models ago. Reuse of existing parts is a money saver. I too wouldn't mind a dual motor GP but I understand the price point considerations. The vertical motors are much better pullers than the horizontal cans were.

 

Rich

I had a close look at the CAD drawing of the underneath view and it looks like they are using the same powered truck assembly for the non powered dummy under the long hood without motor of course and probably without the gear assemblies.

If this is the case then there is probably a very small change in the design to get a flat can motor to fit both units. As for additional cost to purchase an eight wheel drive GP, would it really be much more than the cost of an additional motor.

Perhaps Dave would like to comment on the feasibility of doing this and would it really be viable to do.

At a minimum, thus run of GP7s is likely far enough along in the process that any change at this point is not going to happen.  I think at $225ish (Ro and Trainworld) it's a relatively low risk gamble on giving one of these a shot.  I can't see most people pulling more than 10 or 12 cars with it, I think even with one motor it will do fine.  

Bluetooth + sound = a win.  I would like smoke, but I'll live without it.

Now this could be a good starting point for a RTR set. 

Ben

NASG&CASG
NotInWI posted:

At a minimum, thus run of GP7s is likely far enough along in the process that any change at this point is not going to happen.  I think at $225ish (Ro and Trainworld) it's a relatively low risk gamble on giving one of these a shot.  I can't see most people pulling more than 10 or 12 cars with it, I think even with one motor it will do fine.  

Bluetooth + sound = a win.  I would like smoke, but I'll live without it.

Now this could be a good starting point for a RTR set. 

Ben

It was never my intention to see current production suspended just because I spotted a possibility that there is potential to make these with eight wheel drive and maybe at minimal extra development costs.

I'm sure that if there is any mileage in doing this then Lionel will do what is best for them.

What is the possibility of retro fitting older AF Lionel diesels with FC capability as an upgrade option?

Every one has good ideas and all.  but jeesh it must be awful to work for Lionel. The minute you try to be nice and show some work. All of us experts tell them how to do their job better. And I know some one is going to follow up with why they are justified in telling Lionel how to do their job. As a self employed guy I'm just a little more sensitive to this. I love it when customers dictate how I can do my job better.

"Every one has good ideas and all.  but jeesh it must be awful to work for Lionel. The minute you try to be nice and show some work. All of us experts tell them how to do their job better. And I know some one is going to follow up with why they are justified in telling Lionel how to do their job. As a self employed guy I'm just a little more sensitive to this. I love it when customers dictate how I can do my job better."

Thank you, I could not have said it better. I for one would not be as deep into S gauge, or model railroading period, now if it were not for Lionel and in particular ERR. Do they do everything perfect, no, but I know of mistakes I have made both mechanically and verbally. I believe we, in S, need to maybe appreciate a little bit the life that Lionel has put into American Flyer. I am not saying this to discount American Models or S helper/MTH as I own their products also. I do believe we could give them, all these manufacturers, a break.

Ray

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

RoyBoy

RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

Rusty Traque posted:
RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

I don't run any prototypes newer than 1952, so do not have either of these locos.  I was thinking of a vertical motor, a China Drive, if you will. Any vertical motor will have to rotate with the truck, or else the truck will speed up or slow down momentarily when the truck rotates.

Are the motors in the SD70 and the ES44 horizontally mounted in the trucks?

That still does not address my point that both motors must have the same torque and speed characteristics.

RoyBoy

RoyBoy posted:
Rusty Traque posted:
RoyBoy posted:

To the folks who keep suggesting putting a flat motor in the rear of a GP-7, there are at least two considerations:

-the truck must rotate, which rotates the motor. After a few degrees of rotation, the round part of the motor might hit the insides of the body.

-the power and torque characteristics of the flat motor must match the characteristics of the forward motor exactly, and at all speeds.

If you look at the SD70 and ES44 motors, they do not rotate with the trucks.

Rusty

I don't run any prototypes newer than 1952, so do not have either of these locos.  I was thinking of a vertical motor, a China Drive, if you will. Any vertical motor will have to rotate with the truck, or else the truck will speed up or slow down momentarily when the truck rotates.

Are the motors in the SD70 and the ES44 horizontally mounted in the trucks?

That still does not address my point that both motors must have the same torque and speed characteristics.

The motors on the SD70's and ES44's are mounted to the frame.  The trucks pivot around the worm gear.  Any speed difference is negligible.

ES44 Misc 032215 004

ES44 Misc 032215 001

Rusty

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I just took a look inside my SD-70, a measurement inside the body in the location of the motor is 1 inch. A measurement over the round part of the motor yielded approximately .960 inch. The motor in the SD is not a round motor but rather has flats that run parallel to the length of the engine. The flats appear to be a smaller measurement than the flywheel which measures approx. .780 inch.

Ray

Rayin"S" posted:

I just took a look inside my SD-70, a measurement inside the body in the location of the motor is 1 inch. A measurement over the round part of the motor yielded approximately .960 inch. The motor in the SD is not a round motor but rather has flats that run parallel to the length of the engine. The flats appear to be a smaller measurement than the flywheel which measures approx. .780 inch.

Ray

The inside width of a GP body is 24.38mm, tad under an inch and the SD motor across the flats is 19.30mm, so there is room to put one in if the motor is fixed like the SD and have room for wires to run by it as well, so it could possibly be done.

Hi all. 

Wanted to give an update on the coupler situation that was raised. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

We've modified the design and tooling. The coupler opens enough now to allow the two couplers to separate.

The new coupler will be made when this year's engines go into production.

Thanks!

IMG_5565

Dave Olson

Engineering Manager

Lionel LLC

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Dave,

Thank you from a American Flyer guy who loves the Legacy/TMCC and the Flyerchief  equipment that Lionel is producing. Lionel does listen when the right people are in the right place.

Ray

Dave Olson posted:

Hi all. 

Wanted to give an update on the coupler situation that was raised. Thanks for bringing this to my attention.

We've modified the design and tooling. The coupler opens enough now to allow the two couplers to separate.

The new coupler will be made when this year's engines go into production.

Thanks!

 

Bob

"Will you be at the York show in April so I can thank you in person when I talk with Ryan?"

I will be there all 3 days. I look forward to meeting you!

 

"Will the upcoming FlyerChief geeps have the same brass tubular axles and brass bearings like we see in the O scale LionChief diesels, or will they be solid steel?"

They will be solid. No magnetic traction here.

But I want to note that our Customer Service Dept. hasn't received a LC+ engine in for that issue. That design is very robust and has been used in many traditional sized engines for many years. That engine seemed to be a rare exception, and upon looking at the images, had other problems that were causing issues. The excessive wear of the axle would indicate a flawed truck frame. There was also way too much corrosion and no lubrication for such a new engine.

Dave Olson

Engineering Manager

Lionel LLC

Hi all,

We received a pre-production sample of the GP7 and I thought I would post a video so you could hear the sounds.

The volume is really good. This speaker helped out greatly. I also enjoy the new prime mover sounds Rudy made for this engine.

This also has the updated coil couplers that open further. They work great.

Let me know what you think!

Dave

 

Dave Olson

Engineering Manager

Lionel LLC

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Videos (1)
AF_GP7_SoundDemo

Nice job Dave. My computer has crappo speakers so I really can't judge the sound quality very well. I'm sure Rudy has added some high quality sounds. The trucks look fine and I'm glad the couplers now will fully open as I plan to use the pair I ordered , UP and AT&SF,  for switch service engines on a dedicated point-to point track with two sidings. Currently I use a pair of SD70's and that's really overkill and a waste of horsepower.

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

Mark

Dave, Thank you for posting the video of the GP, I viewed on my phone and thought it sounded descent for as much as a phone can reproduce sound. I am one of the Flyer guys and really enjoy what Lionel is doing for S gauge, and now very happy that I ordered one of these GPs.

Ray

banjoflyer posted:

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

The APP is working well on Android phones. Just a few more kinks to work out. We're trying to size it for tablets. That's the trickier part. Estimating end of August release or so. I'll definitely announce it when it's ready!

Dave Olson

Engineering Manager

Lionel LLC

Dave Olson posted:
banjoflyer posted:

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

The APP is working well on Android phones. Just a few more kinks to work out. We're trying to size it for tablets. That's the trickier part. Estimating end of August release or so. I'll definitely announce it when it's ready!

Well that is cool!



 

Dave Olson posted:
banjoflyer posted:

Thanks for the update! I hope the Android APP for FlyerChief is nearing completion. Please keep us posted.

The APP is working well on Android phones. Just a few more kinks to work out. We're trying to size it for tablets. That's the trickier part. Estimating end of August release or so. I'll definitely announce it when it's ready!

Terrific! Using a tablet is how I plan to run my FlyerChief engines. Having the larger screen makes it easier on old eyes. 

Mark

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