American Flyer Legacy Berkshire information - 2018

The SP Berkshire is an early Lima Berk Like River Raisen is importing. Close, but not a  Van Sweringen Berkshire that's the subject of the Lionel model. 

Odd that they can't correct the C&O's road number. But what do I know about the Secret Life of Lionel and their production decisions.

 

Roundhouse Bill posted:

You guys with your number "correctness".  99.9% of the world won't care.  They do care that the locomotive runs well and performs as it should.  That is what we need assurance of and that is where we need Lionel to spend their time. 

Even the 3-rail O world is starting to want more correct locomotives and cars.  If it wasn't for us guys with "correctness," number or otherwise, you'd probably wind up with a painted 2x4 with command, smoke and sound.  Or maybe 21085's painted in every color of the rainbow.

I mean, really now...  It costs the same $$$ to produce whether the number is correct or wrong.

The Legacy and F/C Berkshires are really only accurate for NKP and PM.  The others have some significant detail differences that set them apart from NKP/PM.  At the current price point, these differences tend to be moot.  If the Legacy's were going for a grand more, I would expect them to reflect those differences.

I don't expect everything to be rivet-per-rivet accurate, (unless I'm paying a River Raisin price) but the days of a generic detailed locomotive with a catalog number on the cab and American Flyer Lines on the tender are gone.

I have to agree with Casey.  I'm puzzled as to why the C&O road number is written in stone, but adding/changing some other details are open for discussion.

Rusty

$500.00 is not a bad price, but still high enough not to throw the money away on a incorrectly numbered Legacy engine.

Yes, they are not perfect scale, but I value all my Flyonel Legacy engines as if they were brass. They are darned neat, and I mourn the loss of the USRA 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 dies. They could have gotten a lot of mileage from them. As they could on a Legacy USRA 0-8-0. (Hint, hint) Legacy first, please, cheapen it for the trainset crowd later.

Maybe I'll hold out for a subsequent run of C&Os with a hopefully correct number.

I think it matters to a lot more than 0.1% of us.

Wow.  All this negativity over a number.  Thanks Lionel for listening and making this new run of Berkshire.  Really guys to be really correct these engines should be running on scale coal or oil, not 18 volts.  I think it’s great that we’re gonna have this kind of engine for 500 dollars.  If you don’t like it then don’t buy one.  Thanks Lionel!!!

Quite frankly, there's nothing wrong for folks to ask for "correctness."  Imagine if Lionel were to put "957," "567" or "2018" on the cabs of the NKP locomotives.  Lionel would surely hear about it.

Even if Lionel were to offer the Legacy Berkshire in Illinois Central, Louisville & Nashville, or Santa Fe. For $500, I'd expect correct road numbers to be used per roadname.

Folks can always vote with their wallets and it appears that's what Casey's going to do.

Rusty

 

I'm just trying to point out that Lionel is capable of great things.

The now seemingly unloved U33Cs had details specific to the roads they were offered in.  The SD70s came out and they had no variances. All upper headlights to catch the NS heritage unit mania. Only the NS, some UP, and 10 BNSF units had upper headlights for the roadnames they offered. Almost every other road ordered theirs with nose mounted headlights. Same with the ES44Cs NS upper, most other roads have lower headlights. Sorry, too glaring an error for a $500+ locomotive. I won't even start with there were some truck sideframe options.

Yet the Challengers and the Y-3s had road specific details. Not to the extent of brass locomotives, but good enough.

 I love Lionel's new offerings.  I've even embraced FlyerCheif. 

But Legacy at Legacy pricing, I'll only buy what's correct. Nit picking like this saves me money when I place my order at my LHS.

 

 

Before y'all fly off the handle with unsubstantiated conclusions and inferences.  I never said I was or wasn't going to buy something based on cab # or that it matters more than how well running or built something is.  I would just like to know from Lionel which it is actually going to be since in at least one description it says 572 and yet elsewhere shown as 752.  All this negativity based on conjecture, surmise, and no evidence.  (Why does that sound familiar?)  Can't curiosity exist on its own?  

David Horn

Precision Flyer Repairs

 

 

I suppose if I already had a legacy system set up on an operating layout, I'd be lining up for one of these. However, I don't already have the legacy system, my higher-end S scale preference would be DCC, but I still would like to know what I'm missing out on. What does a legacy Berkshire have that the Flyer Chief Berk I already have and like (my version doesn't have BT) doesn't offer? I'm guessing better & louder sound, but what else?

Bill in FtL

 

Bill Nielsen posted:

What does a legacy Berkshire have that the Flyer Chief Berk I already have and like (my version doesn't have BT) doesn't offer? I'm guessing better & louder sound, but what else?

Bill in FtL

 

It's all in the descriptions...

Legacy:

Features:

  • LEGACY Control System equipped -able to run in LEGACY control mode, in TMCC or in conventional mode with a standard transformer
  • DCC equipped - able to run with DCC systems
  • Odyssey II speed control
  • LEGACY RailSounds
  • CrewTalk™ dialog and TowerCom™ announcements, each with different scenarios depending on whether the locomotive is in motion or stopped
  • Six official railroad speeds with CrewTalk dialog
  • DynaChuff™ synchronized with 32 levels of intensity as the locomotive gains speed
  • LEGACY® "Real-Time Quilling Whistle" control with instant response for realistic signature "quilling" and correctly timed warning signals
  • Single hit or continuous bell sounds
  • Sequence Control: plays the sound effects of an entire trip, including warning sounds and announcements, based on the movement and speed of the locomotive
  • Current speed and fuel dialog, coal-loading sound effects
  • IR Transmitter
  • Powerful maintenance free motor
  • Wireless Tether connection between locomotive and tender
  • ElectroCoupler on rear of tender
  • Directional lighting
  • Traction tires
  • Interior illumination in cab
  • Die-cast locomotive body, pilot and trucks
  • Die-cast tender body and trucks
  • Separately applied metal handrails
  • Fan-driven smoke with adjustable output
  • Engineer and fireman figures

Product Specifications:

  • Gauge: S Gauge  
  • Dimensions:
  • Minimum Curve:  
  • Road Name: Chesapeake & Ohio
  • Road Number: 2697

 

FlyerChief:...

Features:

  • FlyerChief™ control with user selected operational modes: Conventional AC transformer control mode, FlyerChief™ wireless remote control with AC or DC power or Bluetooth via LionChief®App
  • Constant speed control maintains
  • speed on curves and grades
  • ElectroCoupler™ on rear of tender
  • Synchronized fan-driven smoke
  • LED headlight
  • On / Off Switches for background sounds and smoke
  • Railsounds RC™ sound system with steam chuffing, background sounds, whistle, bell and announcements
  • User activated announcements vary when train is stationary or in motion
  • Die cast metal locomotive and tender body and trucks
  • Stamped metal tender frame
  • Powerful maintenance-free motor
  • Detailed cab back head
  • Remote Features - Forward and reverse speed control knob, Buttons for whistle sound, bell, and special announcements and volume control, Volume control, Button for ElectroCoupler™ activation, Requires three AAA batteries not included
  • Bluetooth™ equipped - simplified operation and features available with the Universal Remote or LionChief® App

Product Specifications:

  • Gauge: S Gauge  
  • Dimensions: Legnth: 19"
  • Minimum Curve: S36  
  • Road Name: Chesapeake & Ohio
  • Road Number: 2696

The one thing you suggested you might like...DCC is  available in the Legacy engine. Besides the many add on details the Legacy system gives the user far more options to run the engine with others on the same track at the same time with the same remote. The price differential of about $130.00 is a hurdle but to the detail oriented owner the detail alone is worth the difference.

Mark

Dave Olson posted:

Ryan and I will discuss details/road numbers/etc this coming week. We've been busy with the Big E show. So stay tuned. And breathe.

Thank you. I have decided to order one of these detailed Berkshires and believe it or not the RF&P was ultimately my choice. I surprised myself as I never even heard of that railroad. What swung it for me was the red painted windows! A small detail! But there clearly is an error somewhere in the mix as to the road number and I believe it is just a typo in the description being followed up by an incorrectly illustrated engine number trying to follow suit. Someone somewhere did some research as to which roads bought the Berks and the RF&P was in for 10 units only...

Clearly there was no 752 engine number. Seems like an easy fix to make it right.

Thanks again.

Mark

 

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Bill Nielsen posted:

I suppose if I already had a legacy system set up on an operating layout, I'd be lining up for one of these. However, I don't already have the legacy system, my higher-end S scale preference would be DCC, but I still would like to know what I'm missing out on. What does a legacy Berkshire have that the Flyer Chief Berk I already have and like (my version doesn't have BT) doesn't offer? I'm guessing better & louder sound, but what else?

Bill in FtL

 

Far more detail, added on and otherwise, full valve gear and DCC code embedded in the Legacy operating system, like the SD70's and ES44's.

Here are some of the engineering drawings from Dave Olsen's original post:

Rusty

Dave Olson posted:

Ryan and I will discuss details/road numbers/etc this coming week. We've been busy with the Big E show. So stay tuned. And breathe.

Dave O, I hope the show was a huge success.  Were you and Ryan able to discuss?  Any outcome?  Thanks.

David Horn

Precision Flyer Repairs

 

 

Dave Olson posted:

The RF&P engine will be correctly numbered as 572 instead of 752. Thanks for pointing it out!

Thank you very much Dave! That's the news I have been waiting for. I will now order my RF&P Legacy Berkshire.  These Legacy Berks will make stunning additions to any S scaler's collection! 

Mark

billy jack posted:

I have ordered a RF&P  Berkshire from Railyard hobbies in Roanoke Virginia.  I want to see that my local hobby store remains in business even though he is 200 miles from my home.   ( yes he price matched Charles Ro)  

billyjack

Good for you! Using "local" and "200 miles" in the same sentence makes for a big home town!  

I too have ordered my RF&P Berk. I was able to find a picture of the RF&P #576 Berkshire:

That shows that the RF&P engines didn't have number boards atop the boiler like some other roads had. Looks like Lionel is trying to offer road specific details on these Berks!  

Mark

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Ted SowirkaJ DaddyOmanQuick CaseyJohn23Rusty TraqueRoundhouse BillCraig Donath


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