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In my further attempt to level the playing field and get caught up, today’s task is to get as many Pulmor chassis swapped over to their new Pittman motors as possible….so today, we’ll venture out into the big shop to see what actually takes place, the tools I’ll use, the process to do the rough cuts, and the refinement to finally precision fit the Pittman…….Dennis’s 18056 (763) Hudson & Dave’s 18009 Mohawk are first up to bat,….naturally, we begin by stripping the Pulmor and all the electronics to prepare for cutting,….note as I take these locomotives apart, I’m looking at how well the chassis spins, back lash in the gear boxes, dried up nasty grease, and whatever else may need attention as we proceed for a smooth operating locomotive,……We need to cut off the Pulmor mount to make way for the Pittman, I’ve fabricated a sheet metal backer to protect the wheels as we begin the process,..4D8C1FD1-D96E-4FA5-A757-D76151AF487AF08C6E98-2C31-48B2-9FB1-2939DAC809DD9A727FE3-FB2B-4516-8BEC-48CDEB2D8FBA307A29A1-ECA8-41E1-A75B-5E3D5565519CB05DB9F3-0B54-4CB9-A0F8-7A37563A80F75AEB29B5-66D9-4A48-952E-3D410BD4CC99C41E0001-389D-4360-BB7B-4800F3B616861CBCF8F9-CE71-4743-91B9-120554C127E825714152-DAE5-4374-9AED-FD15D81509C26078FFD0-1CC1-49A9-AEE5-F8D288F97F8A83993763-4583-4C4A-9139-2C6BFD5652FDE1AD6D66-CE7A-46ED-B829-9F87436E529E5460C75B-01AE-424D-B7C9-849EF995CEEA…..we start with a cut off tool ( buckeye) then proceed with roloc grinders, and carbide bit tools to erase the remains of the mount,…the pics you’re seeing are of all the rough initial cuts, we’ll refine these cuts and square everything up with files, belt sander, a good old fashioned square, and an angle finder to set the pitch we’ll need for the new motor mount,…..stay tuned, enjoy the pics, and the process, I’ll update hopefully throughout the weekend,…

Pat

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Last edited by harmonyards
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That mount looks great Pat.

What connects to the shaft, can you use the original driveshaft?

John, I was using the dog bone and coupler approach, until I discovered these RC car driveshafts in solid steel, with steel universals,….further making these swaps bulletproof,…..I did a write several months back when I discovered these driveshafts were available in 4mm ID, ….kinda makes it a no brainer,…the only thing I “upgrade “ on these driveshafts is to tap the set screw holes from 1.5mm to  a healthier 4-40 set screw,…..these shafts are available in a dizzying array of lengths,….very smooth shafts ….

Pat 9EDA660A-DDC7-4A9C-A228-E0DDD2CA73B2

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Those are much nicer than the dogbones, nice upgrade!

I was impressed when they showed up, kinda had my doubts about the quality, but for what we’re doing, they’ll outlast all of us,…as mentioned, the only thing I didn’t like was the super tiny set screws they supplied, easy enough to just jam a 4-40 tap in there and oversize them…..😉

Pat

@leapinlarry posted:

I love this mini series, Tales from the Harmon Shops”, it’s a fun to read analysis of how to really upgrade our steamers with a Pittman motor and a very reliable steel drive shaft, therefore giving new life, new power for these fun to run trains. Thank you Pat, Happy Railroading Everyone

Larry, won’t be long till you see the shops first hand …..no??….you’ll get the 4 cent tour,…( we’re always shy a penny here and there ) 🤣🤣🤣

Pat

..

@harmonyards posted:

Dave’s 18009 Mohawk now sports a fancy new mount for the Pittman motor,..after machining the parts, the back end of the chassis gets treated in a blackening bath for that factory look. When I’m  done installing the Pittman in Dave’s Mohawk, it’s off to Alex M for further upgrades,…..

Pat 4DB0A24E-8AAE-4C8E-91DE-CDF9C3A6B048B6D13934-BAA7-4546-BC2A-1391B60685C30C17CC40-4C22-4A69-B68C-E9DA7B899E7C

Woohoo! Sorry, been a busy day for me this weekend so far. Ran around just afternoon, messaged Pat as a smiled at this thread showing up, went to the store, picked up some good stuff to eat, and just got an even more busy afternoon. No train stuff happened unfortunately, but seasoning of pork chops. Finished eating a bit ago, enjoying a Guinness while watching yesterday's preseason Steelers game. I happy I waited to read this until now.

It's great to see all the work that is going on, and Pat's workbench. Sort of reminds me of my late Uncle Eddie's shop were any number of things would be worked on, motors and such, but no trains.

You know what, speaking of Uncle Eddie, I feel that Pat, Alex, and others that do all these fantastic pieces of work probably have the same type of work like my uncle where some of the parts the were in originally in, somehow get set to the side and the engine works better. Yeah, I know that sounds somewhat silly because that is what is happening in most if not all of these projects, but my uncle would take things apart, and when it was put back together he had leftover parts. He'd operate whatever it was and it worked better. He told me that on two occasions, when was an old car he had where he had taken the engine apart, the other was my first car though that wasn't fully ripped apart, just something removed.

I can't wait to see more(sorry if I'm rambling, just so excited).

@leapinlarry posted:

Yes Pat,  I have the money ready ( 4 cents) for the upcoming visit  to  your part of the USA  in September, and it will be a September to remember. I’ll be in touch with your shops next week. It’s going to be a lot of fun. I look forward to seeing your fabulous layout.  Thank you very much. Happy Railroading Everyone

Sounds good Larry, we’re looking forward to seeing you and Ms.Sue, having a good meal and running some trains,….😁😁😁

Pat

@RSJB18 posted:

Love to watch a master at work!

Pat- Would a PWCC B-6 0-6-0 be worthy of an upgrade? I'm thinking about swapping the electronics for the Third Rail ERR stuff. I can handle the wiring work ( I think) but I don't have all the goodies to do the mechanical. She's a sweet engine but the AC motor is somewhat of a non-starter.

2018-12-08 08.11.40

That’s too funny, my good buddy Lou ( Lou1985 ) and I were just talking about swapping one of these out,….we’d have to go to an 8000 series Pittman, due to the limited room, but it can be done,…..but first, I need to get caught up on what’s already here,…..you can get a hold of me anytime via profile and we can begin the brainstorming process whenever you’d like,…

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

That’s too funny, my good buddy Lou ( Lou1985 ) and I were just talking about swapping one of these out,….we’d have to go to an 8000 series Pittman, due to the limited room, but it can be done,…..but first, I need to get caught up on what’s already here,…..you can get a hold of me anytime via profile and we can begin the brainstorming process whenever you’d like,…

Pat

No rush.... just daydreaming......

@LLKJR posted:

When I saw the pictures of the air tools and the frame removal, my first thought was, “I hope this guy knows what he is doing.”

Yes, you do!

Great job!

Larry

Thanks Larry,…I wouldn’t dream of doing this on somebody else’s stuff unless I was confident….I’ve done this on dozens of my own, and dozens for other folks,…but believe me, ….many many years ago when I did my first one, after I made the first cut,..my thought was “ what have I done!.” but, I spent the time perfecting the job, and engineering the install to a science, and that first one I built,  now has well over 1000 hours of run time on it,….and still is one of the smoothest running machines in the arsenal,…😉

Pat

@harmonyards posted:

Thanks Larry,…I wouldn’t dream of doing this on somebody else’s stuff unless I was confident….I’ve done this on dozens of my own, and dozens for other folks,…but believe me, ….many many years ago when I did my first one, after I made the first cut,..my thought was “ what have I done!.” but, I spent the time perfecting the job, and engineering the install to a science, and that first one I built,  now has well over 1000 hours of run time on it,….and still is one of the smoothest running machines in the arsenal,…😉

Pat

👍👍

I have rudimentary skills with lathes and metalwork that I have learned working on my classic cars, but it would take some effort to master the finite precision your doing on these units Pat. 

Now if you want a drill bit flushed out to 20", a home wood burning stove fabricated and welded or a house framed, I have those skills.

Just out of curiosity, are these sort of upgrades feasible on K-Line's scale Hudson and Berkshire? I hear their motors are sort-of underpowered and prone to conking out under heavy loads. I have one of each (bought new when they first came out), and while I haven't even gotten around to running them, it's something to keep in mind for the future.

(but in the meantime, if they ever get their turn on the "test-track" in stock form, I'll configure lightweight, easy-rolling trains for them since I already have stump-pullers that can handle as many cars as the loop will allow).

---PCJ

@RailRide posted:

Just out of curiosity, are these sort of upgrades feasible on K-Line's scale Hudson and Berkshire? I hear their motors are sort-of underpowered and prone to conking out under heavy loads. I have one of each (bought new when they first came out), and while I haven't even gotten around to running them, it's something to keep in mind for the future.

(but in the meantime, if they ever get their turn on the "test-track" in stock form, I'll configure lightweight, easy-rolling trains for them since I already have stump-pullers that can handle as many cars as the loop will allow).

---PCJ

Yes, I do the Kline scale Hudsons and scale Berkshires as well,…

Pat 77094ABC-9B01-41E8-9995-3C74D386F59F30D75713-1FD9-45C9-8F1E-6CB2BC95F336

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@RailRide posted:

Just out of curiosity, are these sort of upgrades feasible on K-Line's scale Hudson and Berkshire? I hear their motors are sort-of underpowered and prone to conking out under heavy loads. I have one of each (bought new when they first came out), and while I haven't even gotten around to running them, it's something to keep in mind for the future.

(but in the meantime, if they ever get their turn on the "test-track" in stock form, I'll configure lightweight, easy-rolling trains for them since I already have stump-pullers that can handle as many cars as the loop will allow).

---PCJ

I've done the swap on a K-Line Berkshire: K-Line/Lionel/MTH Berkshire hybrid | O Gauge Railroading On Line Forum (ogaugerr.com)

You need the entire chassis from the Lionel Legacy version from 7-8 years ago. Literally everything else from the K-line chassis bolts onto the Lionel chassis (rods, valve hanger, cylinders, pilot, trucks, etc) so you just need the chassis and worm shaft from Lionel. There is no provision for the puffer smoke unit from K-Line in the Lionel chassis, so switching to fan smoke is required. Pete @Norton was the first to notice the similarities between the chassis. Pat @harmonyards was able to set up a 9433 Pittman to fit the chassis. It's an involved swap but mostly bolt in.

@harmonyards posted:

Dave’s Mohawk now sports a Pittman driveline, it’s about ready to head to Alex M. after reassembly and some road testing …..testing on the rollers is super smooth,…we’ve set up Alex with this nifty bracket for him to mount GRJ’s chuff sensor, and a good place to route wires away from the spinning flywheel,…

Pat 1900D54D-DEAD-492C-B619-EA6162099F97E27D239C-AE2C-4394-9810-85A7EC608537

Wow, awesome Pat.

@harmonyards posted:

we’ve set up Alex with this nifty bracket for him to mount GRJ’s chuff sensor, and a good place to route wires away from the spinning flywheel,…

Since the Chuff-Generator has to have the sensor facing the flywheel, I'm having trouble seeing how this works for mounting it.  Perhaps you can explain what's intended here.

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Since the Chuff-Generator has to have the sensor facing the flywheel, I'm having trouble seeing how this works for mounting it.  Perhaps you can explain what's intended here.

There’s plenty of “gap” between the bracket and the flywheel,……he can mount your sensor  on the underside of this bracket, so the sensor is facing the flywheel, and bend the bracket as needed for the sensor clearance ,……easy peasy,….I’ve done it on these models a bunch where roof top clearance is a premium …..

Pat

I figured there was some method to the madness, just wasn't sure what it was.

Yep,…I’m always so scared on these Pulmor swaps that I’m going to mash the sensor up against the roof of the firebox, I sought after an alternative route to mount it,….the board obviously don’t care if it’s facing fore or aft, as long as the sensor itself can read the stripes,…win,….😁

Pat

Oh boy, I have had a busy week, and sure that Pat has had just about the same as well. I got some running around to do today as I am late to go food shopping, but I am sure that something will arise here to get things moving. All I can say is that anticipation can be good, and can be bad, but the eventual outcome is going to be something truly amazing.

Oh boy, I have had a busy week, and sure that Pat has had just about the same as well. I got some running around to do today as I am late to go food shopping, but I am sure that something will arise here to get things moving. All I can say is that anticipation can be good, and can be bad, but the eventual outcome is going to be something truly amazing.

Dave, you reminded me of an old Carly Simon song!  It can't be 50 years already!!!!!!!!

Last edited by Mark Boyce

That's great Dave!

Pat has my Hudson right now.  We have already gone over all that he will be doing to it.  It is basically the "Works like Larry's"    Why not, while he has it!  I know at least one more engine besides yours is ahead of it.  Maybe more.  That's quite alright.  I waited 25 years between tearing down my last 'permanent' layout and starting construction on my present one, so I think I can wait. 

@Strummer posted:

Such nice work... and here's a question: since it appears that most of Pat's work is on "scale" size engines, wouldn't these threads be more fitting  in the "3 Rail Scale" forum, as opposed to the "traditional toy train" group?

Just curious...

Mark in Oregon

Nope, …..the line in the sand is the crab claw coupler,….so, as detailed as they are, they need to stay in this forum,…..I am building one for a fella that’s getting scale couplers and what not ….his is already posted in the 3 rail scale forum,……

Pat

@Mark Boyce posted:

That's great Dave!

Pat has my Hudson right now.  We have already gone over all that he will be doing to it.  It is basically the "Works like Larry's"    Why not, while he has it!  I know at least one more engine besides yours is ahead of it.  Maybe more.  That's quite alright.  I waited 25 years between tearing down my last 'permanent' layout and starting construction on my present one, so I think I can wait. 

That's good, patience. I myself still have a lot of work to do here. Not sure anything will be getting done today as it is football season and I have to support the Steelers. Before I sit down and relax I still have to get my windshield clear. I've been trying to clean it for a few weeks with smearing issues. Got some isopropyl alcohol yesterday to clean it up right.

I'm not to concerned on timeline. I know however long it takes it is in great hands. I'm talking about the Hudson here as I know there is a line. Pat also has my 763 with the Vandy tender as well, so both will be getting an overhaul when they get pulled into the Harmon Shops Roundhouse.

Here’s Dave’s Mohawk on a shake down run to make sure mechanical systems are good before Alex does his magic,…..motor is only drawing 1 amp,…..very smooth starts & stops, ….you’ll notice a little wobble in the tender, buts that’s only because it’s fully gutted inside and light as a feather at the moment,……the locomotive is very smooth pulling this train, so added electronics will be icing on the cake!…

Pat

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That is magic. She hasn't pulled that many cars since an I'll fated carpet run in the living room. I don't remember how many, but I do know that run was in the mid 1990's and resulted in a few cars derailing. Gotta love that magic. Excellent Pat. Wait until Alex gets her, he may keep her for some fun on his layout(for a bit, lol).

She’ll pull more than that with ease on level track Dave,….at an amp, your rebuilt Mohawk isn’t even breaking a sweat,……40-50 cars on gentle curves would be the norm,……

Pat

Well fellows, I’ve been away for awhile and I’m happily/thrilled to say, I had the honor to visit Harmonyards, Yes, “The Harmon Shops” and met the CEO and his wonderful VP, yes his wife in person and his layout and shops are Top Shelf, Fantastic, wonderful and the trains run like finely tuned precision clocks, perfection in motion.  It was such a memorable experience, my wife and I planned our vacation around his part of the country, allowing us to go across the Chesapeake Bay Bridge and underwater tunnels, which is really close to Harmonyards. North Carolina. Pat is truly a great craftsman. These pictures are of Pats layout where his track (Atlas O), is laid flawless, smooth and quiet as I’ve ever seen. He had 2 trains running, in conventional mode, sounds off and they ran for hours pulling lots of cars, maybe 50 cars on the freight train and 10 heavyweight passenger cars on the beautiful passenger train, never derailing, never over heating, just quietly going to their dream destinations. Wow. before our visit, we checked out the North Carolina Transportation Train Museum near Salisbury, and then on to Virginia Beach as my wife loves the ocean. Harmonyards was the main attraction. Thank you Pat and Tammy for a great 9-11, we had a grand ole time. Unforgettable. Happy Railroading Everyone AED2C946-BD83-4ECC-B6D0-090D75BD379C2C0773AE-AFDD-40CD-A063-5D2EC3532E9951971F56-C907-4914-8868-726D369C07ABC43861C0-DBF6-4ADB-85C6-F57D6F045D95F9573235-FBA1-4687-B488-2D0346706F5714EB5721-4E78-48E3-9466-CEB1F2077CA7E0066D13-3EE8-4DE7-9947-6A2AF8945678743D493A-292A-4400-8434-36FDA0043AB1B731BB29-4428-45D1-8FF8-95D66D27785B913519E2-0B7B-410F-AAD2-BFDCC2D9B5AF764AE171-34CF-438A-9CC3-B7B9EB279CC6E1118231-60D3-4A74-96E5-5DCED16ABEFD

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I just got back home after popping down the my LTS. Power went out here while I was out, but is back on now. I did promise a carpet run, that will come later.

All I can say is that this project really blew my mind and my expectations. You always think about just how the engine will change with the upgrade, but you also come to realize how much more was done that make your engine even more realistic than what it was. Hats off to Pat @harmonyards & Alex @Alex M making this all possible. I am just blown away with everything that went into this.

The great thing is, I have more engines that need work/upgrades, some already in the works, others yet to get underway. Better believe that both Pat and Alex will be heading some of these projects, maybe both on the same one. I guess we'll have to wait and see what comes.

PS., someone named Dave needs to dismantle a treadmill still before any layout can be built, and all these wonderful engines and more can run. Someone needs to get on his case, lol. DAVE!!!!!

@RSJB18 posted:

Looks great! Pat and Alex are a great team!

Going to be a very Merry Christmas in the NYC/PRR house!

Yeah, I took the Mogul off the rails and turned which way I have been running the other way. I haven't run any PRR in a bit, might keep the Mohawk running for a good while.

@Mark Boyce posted:

Looks great, Dave!!!  No you didn’t take too many photographs and videos!!!

I actually didn't post all the photos. I did all the videos though. I need more hands though. It is hard to handle the camera and fiddle with the remote, lol.

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