Skip to main content

burlingtonroute

So to match the many CB&Q Engines that we are producing, we thought - why not produce some passenger equipment as well!!

We have contracted with Atlas O to make these Burlington sets using the same tooling that MTH once owned.

The sets we are making are as follows: WITH RIBBON LETTERING!

4-Pack:  Combine, Coach, Diner, and Observation

cb&q hvwgt combine

The above combine artwork shows the placement of the markings.  The small lavatory window will be omitted from the production run, as is correct for a 70' car.   We are making car #3506.

CBQ4557 6-20-65 Aurora IL [002)

Pictured above is coach #4557 sitting at home in Aurora, IL.

cbqd178-1 [002)

This is the Dining Car that we are doing.  #178.  The side kitchen windows are filled in as shown in the above picture.  Our car will have the windows "open" so that the cooks don't burn the bacon.

CB&Q 251000, ex-639, Chicago, Ill., 6-1963, Hol Wagner photo-1

Meet "MONTEZUMA" ; car #639.  Shown above many years later as a MOW #251000.  We are stamping her as #639 with a traditional herald on the drumhead.  See the herald at the top of this post.

2-Pack: Coach and Coach

MOT 058

Above is coach # 6117 located at the Museum of Transportation (MOT) in Kirkwood, MO.

Below is coach #6144 sitting somewhere in Sugarcreek, OH in 1996.

img463-copy_edited-2-copy1024 [002)

Single: Baggage

This is baggage car #1580 looking pretty in Green Bay, WI. at the National Railroad Museum.

cbq 1580 [002)

Single: RPO  (We have chosen to make the car as pictured below, IRM's REA / RPO #1923.)

Screenshot 2021-06-01 165823 [002)

Each car will be painted Pullman Green with black roofs and lettered from the factory using traditional pad-printing; "BURLINGTON".  In the font style of "ribbon" with goldish / yellow color.

Now for the real delight!  We are also announcing an additional two cars (different from the previous eight (8) above) that will be stamped the same EXCEPT THESE CARS WILL BE PAINTED ENTIRELY IN SILVER with Black Lettering!!!!

Meet your new SILVER  RPO / REA  AND DINING CARS!  Both to be sold as single units.

Silver Single: RPO / REA  #1941

silver cb&q

Photographer for silver RPO / REA 1941 picture is F. Hol Wagner, Jr.

From CB&Q Color Guide to Freight and Passenger Equipment by Michael J. Spoor. Published by Morning Sun Books.

Silver Single: Diner  #171

Diner 171

The above picture is a duplicate photo by Al Choine, Ray Bedard collection.

Supplied to us and used by permission from forum member "ray of sunshine"

↓ INFO BELOW ↓

Price for each car is $109.99.  You may order any assortment (mix n' match) that you would like, however you must order as per pack.

No pack spilt-ups.

Pre-order yours today!  Expected to be released 4th Quarter of 2021.

Pre-production artwork will be revealed as soon as possible!

Deposit is required to place an order - a simple $10 for every car ordered!

Attachments

Images (11)
  • burlingtonroute
  • cb&q hvwgt combine
  • CBQ4557 6-20-65 Aurora IL (002)
  • cbqd178-1 (002)
  • CB&Q 251000, ex-639, Chicago, Ill., 6-1963, Hol Wagner photo-1
  • MOT 058
  • img463-copy_edited-2-copy1024 (002)
  • cbq 1580 (002)
  • Screenshot 2021-06-01 165823 (002)
  • silver cb&q
  • Diner 171
Last edited by Berwyns Toys and Trains
Original Post

Replies sorted oldest to newest

(Again) Going out on a limb here trying to be helpful and not deleted, but perhaps you could increase sales and reach a wider audience by posting this on the (in the effort to be more accurate) 3-Rail Traditional Toy Trains  forum?  A quote from Forum Moderators - "WAY TOO MANY of your posting is being placed in the wrong category....mostly 3-rail scale."   Shorty (18" cars)  are clearly not scale and posting on the correct forum will have a greater appeal to the much larger audience which should lead to increased sales which is what you are after.  I see quite a few vendors now posting all sorts of non scale stuff here so while you are not alone, you are not reaching the proper and wider audience for selling the items you wish to advertise either.  However, as a forum elder has pointed out,  "Then again you are a forum sponsor so you do have the ability to post where ever as part of the Sponsorship".   I guess an answer in search of a problem.

- Crank  - Last post from me on these types of threads as I'll even bore myself.   I'm sure not to be successful but gave it a shot.

Last edited by Eccentric Crank

@ Eccentric Crank.  "but perhaps you could increase sales and reach a wider audience by posting this on the (in the effort to be more accurate) 3-Rail Traditional Toy Trains  forum? "  These are not Marx, Flyer, or Lionel toy trains......  We beg to differ, but this is the correct category (3-Rail Scale Model Trains) for posted said item.

"A quote from Forum Moderators - "WAY TOO MANY of your posting is being placed in the wrong category....mostly 3-rail scale.""   And this applies to us directly how?  Explain to us how an ATLAS O / MTH Premier 3-Rail item doesn't belong here?  Especially when Atlas O's and MTH's whole business model centers on those principles.  

"Shorty (18" cars)  are clearly not scale........ "  What?  Least you forget, these cars have scale proportions (70' 18" = correct for the baggage and RPO, incorrect for everything else.  They are not 80' (21") cars that you call true O-scale.)  These cars do come with oversized flanges, knuckles and shanks, and PICKUP ROLLERS.  GASP!  Because that's how they are produced and delivered by the manufacture.  Out of the box and on 3-rail track.  If you choose to alter them after delivery to fit your needs to make them more 1:48 scale - more power to ya.

".......and posting on the correct forum will have a greater appeal to the much larger audience which should lead to increased sales which is what you are after."  We seem to be gathering enough preorders just fine, thank you.

"I see quite a few vendors now posting all sorts of non scale stuff here so while you are not alone, you are not reaching the proper and wider audience for selling the items you wish to advertise either."  This is the third time you are telling us that we are in the wrong forum.  Huh.....perhaps you are looking in the wrong forum.  Now if we were to post this, say, in the 2-Rail scale forum, then you are correct for calling us out.  But we didn't, did we?

"However, as a forum elder has pointed out,  "Then again you are a forum sponsor so you do have the ability to post where ever as part of the Sponsorship"."  Finally something we can agree on.  Oh, that's right!  We are paying a monthly fee so that someone like yourself (a non-digital subscriber) can post and tell us that we are placing incorrect topics in the incorrect forums which, if we're not mistaken that job belongs to the moderators.

Perhaps you should go crank on something else.....

Thanks for your interest and comment.

@bob2 posted:

18" sounds like 72 prototype feet to me - length of a lot of real heavyweight cars.

Any chance of photos of these models?  How do they stack up against GGD heavyweights?

Thanks for backup.  Photos / artwork of the models will be posted within the next two weeks.  They are 90% just like the past releases of MTH Premier 18" Madison Heavyweight cars, just without interior people and different colored packaging.  Against GGD Heavyweights?  Hard to say, (Of course we will say MTH's / Atlas's are better!) in all honesty they both have pros and cons.  We would say that they defiantly are not similar in tooling.

Hmmm...  If I was able to choose, I'd probably prefer the Railroad Roman font for the lettering since my period of interest is the steam and steam to diesel transition era.  Unless I'm mistaken the lettering would have all been the Roman font in this period, with the ribbon font appearing toward the end of the transition era and on in to the future?  I've always liked the look of the Roman font as well, with it's classic elegance at least to my eyes

Hey Berwyn,

GREAT NEWS. I prefer the more RIBBON style lettering as shown in the IRM photo you posted. I will wait to see the art work before I order my sets, especially for the baggage and RPO. As a thought, how about offering the RPO and Baggage without numbers as well and include matching numbers. This way, I can build my full set of mail trains that the Q ran in the 1950's and 1960's  with multiple RPO's, Baggage, and REA express cars.

RAY

I ordered my full set today.

I agree with Ray.

My preference is for the Deluxe (Imitation gold yellow) RIBBON style font with the Pullman green paint with black roofs & black trucks.

My understanding is that the RR Roman font was used by the BR (Burlington Route: CB&Q and subsidiaries C&S and FW&D) in the pre-WWII era to conform to the Pullman Company's standard RR Roman fonts.  In that era, most of the sleeper cars were owned by Pullman & leased to the RRs.

The following two items affected the BR's adoption of the RIBBON font on their heavyweight passenger car fleet in the post-WWII era.

FIRST:
With the introduction of the 1936 shovel-nose Denver Zephyr, BR was one of the first RRs (maybe even the first RR) to use sleeper cars made by Budd in gleaming SS (stainless-steel).   Santa Fe & a couple other RRs also bought some pre-WWII Budd SS sleepers.  Worried about loss of sleeper-lease revenue due to RR-owned Budd sleepers, Pullman started to refuse to staff the Budd sleepers with their legendary Pullman porter staff & service.  CB&Q, AT&SF, and the 2 other RRs sued Pullman based on the anti-trust laws.  The case was resolved by Pullman being forced to either give up its service business or its sleeper-lease business.  Pullman chose to keep its service business and to sell all of its sleeper fleet directly to the RRs.  At this point, Pullman staff service was offered in all sleeper cars, regardless of the original manufacturer (i.e., Pullman or Budd).

SECOND:
BR's off-season for passenger service was in the winter when the demand  was low for outdoor vacations in the western dude ranches & national parks due to the severe cold weather.  As a result in the winter, BR leased many of its idle heavyweight passenger cars to south east RRs, including ACL (Atlantic Coast Line).  While in the ACL's care, some of the cars were repainted with the Deluxe RIBBON font to better match ACL's home fleet.     Upon their return to BR in the spring, BR's management was impressed with the Deluxe RIBBON font as an easy & inexpensive way to give the heavyweight Pullman green cars a more "modern" updated look in the post-WWII streamliner era.  While the SS Zephyr fleet carried BR's premier trains, the BR's heavyweight Pullman fleet carried BR's  secondary trains, including many steam fan trips.

You can view samples of the RIBBON font on Microscale Decals' website.  48-274 is the BR Deluxe (imitation gold) RIBBON decal set.   48-275 is the BR Black RIBBON decal set.  During the post-WWII streamliner era, a few of BR's heavyweight cars were painted silver to augment the SS Zephyr fleet during peak summer season travel.  The black RIBBON font was used on the silver heavyweights.

So for anyone wanting to model the steam-diesel transition era with BR heavyweight passenger cars, my understanding is that the RIBBON font  is much more representative than the RR Roman font.

You can see for yourself in Morning Sun Books' CB&Q Color Guide to Passenger & Freight Equipment.  Of all the heavyweight passenger cars, only one photo shows the RR Roman lettering; at least 20 photos show the RIBBON lettering.  Most of the heavyweight photos are also in the Pullman green paint with only a few in the silver paint.

I am also fine with the ~70' scale length (~18" actual size) for these heavyweight car models.  My layout will only have O-72 & O-84 curves, on which this size looks very satisfactory to me.  The BR's heavyweight fleet included car lengths of 40', 60', 70' and others as well.  To me, these are scale models.

To me, it is appropriate for the inclusion of Berwyn's announcement in the 3R Scale SubForum.  

Thanks for reading & Enjoy these cars !!!  Thanks to Berwyn & Atlas-O for offering these cars !!!  Thanks to OGR Forum for facilitating our discussion in this thread !!!

Everywhere West !!!

Last edited by CBQ_Bill

Hey Berwyn,

How about doing one of the RPO's in SILVER? The BR did paint several of the RPO's, as well as other heavy weight cars in silver. I painted an Atlas RPO in silver to match the BR - their model is prototypically correct for the BR - see attached photos. This would not only be another option for us BR modelers, but the silver RPO was included in consists with several other roads in mail service; Rio Grande, Great Northern, Western Pacific, and others.

RAY

PS BERWYN; I have photos of the prototype if you want to use them as a reference.

Attachments

Images (3)
  • CB&Q E7 9921 (2): E7 and PRO custom painted by RJB
  • CB&Q RPO & Exp Baggage (2): On my club layout, Golden Gate Lionel RR Club
  • CB&Q RPO & Exp Baggage (4): On my club layout, Golden Gate Lionel RR Club
"However, as a forum elder has pointed out,  "Then again you are a forum sponsor so you do have the ability to post where ever as part of the Sponsorship"."  Finally something we can agree on.  Oh, that's right!  We are paying a monthly fee so that someone like yourself (a non-digital subscriber) can post and tell us that we are placing incorrect topics in the incorrect forums which, if we're not mistaken that job belongs to the moderators.

Perhaps you should go crank on something else.....

Thanks for your interest and comment.

Best response , ever, to a wannabe forum cop 

CB&Q Bill,

Since you asked. It's a Lionel E7 unpainted that was an engineering sample of the Texas Special set 6-31755. Although the Burlington E7 had what is known as "Shadow Line" to represent the side fluting, I had this engine and just decided to do it as a Burlington.

It's a dummy engine that I use with my other E7's and E8's, otherwise I would have installed a fixed pilot from P&D.

Note that the first photo shows the coupler in black, I then painted it silver, less noticeable.

Contact me off list if you want to see more info and photos of my BR custom work.

RAY

Attachments

Images (3)
  • CB&Q E7 9921 (6)
  • CB&Q E7 9921 weathered (1)
  • CB&Q E7 9921 weathered (5)

Did someone mention E5s?    The head end cars for this custom run definitely interest me as I'm looking to put together a later era train with a mixed consist.  My personal preference, but I'd prefer 80' cars for the other heavyweights and 85' cars for streamlined cars that are not head end cars.  Right now, my E5 is lacking any Burlington cars. The silver RPO is certainly worth considering!

Attachments

Videos (2)
20191102_124253
20191102_124308
Last edited by GG1 4877

Add Reply

Post
OGR Publishing, Inc., 1310 Eastside Centre Ct, Suite 6, Mountain Home, AR 72653
330-757-3020

www.ogaugerr.com
×
×
×
×
Link copied to your clipboard.
×
×