Another Kline Hudson gets the works! Tales from Harmon Shops

Sounds like a great project for a classic.  Looking forward to the progress!

Harmonyards, this is the beginning of a great upgrade to a beautiful Hudson. Thank you for making this thread, its going to be a fun to read story about a hopefully fun to run Locomotive. This is one of my favorite steam locomotives of all times, and when it’s all feature enhanced, I’ll buy a nice NYC passenger train, 12 car consist to run behind this fantastic steamer.  Happy Railroading Everyone 

I've always had a decent time running long Atlas reefer freights or REA Express trains behind my K-Line J1-E. All those consists are fairly long, at least as long as a 7 car 18-inch set. Nevertheless I do agree with that finicky cruise.

@leapinlarry Your in for a treat getting this all set up! Truly beautiful models and although I've not had problems with mine I'm jealous of this upgrade! I will definitely follow this thread.

@harmonyards I love the username! NYC is my favorite and save for a single C&O H7 it's all I collect and run! I also just added a grade that's about 2.5% on the outer mains on my layout. The Hudson took it well without a load, and inadequate power drops by the way, do you expect that it will have a problem navigating the new course?

If that's the case I wouldn't mind getting in touch at some point, I've been around but not too vocal, if you need anyone to tell you I'm alright DJones can tell you I'm ok. Bought my 20th Century Dreyfuss and aforementioned H7 from him.

Pat,  did you ever count the turns on the Kline gearbox.  I've been wondering what the ratio is.  John

What a terrific modification Larry - Great for you sir!

My 3rd K-Line Hudson has PS2 and a MTH smoke unit installed and is a stellar performer. The scale pilot is a vast improvement over the stock Lionel 'tiny wheels' that they use on most of their Hudsons.

These K-Line hudsons are just great for adding additional detail. This one has had every part of it detailed, Sanders, electrical, engine truck and wheels, trailing truck, valve gear and the prototype hudson's electrical wiring as well as ashpan rods. Any one can make these mods. This also has ERR and smoke.

@Jedderbob posted:

I've always had a decent time running long Atlas reefer freights or REA Express trains behind my K-Line J1-E. All those consists are fairly long, at least as long as a 7 car 18-inch set. Nevertheless I do agree with that finicky cruise.

 

@leapinlarry Your in for a treat getting this all set up! Truly beautiful models and although I've not had problems with mine I'm jealous of this upgrade! I will definitely follow this thread.

 

@harmonyards I love the username! NYC is my favorite and save for a single C&O H7 it's all I collect and run! I also just added a grade that's about 2.5% on the outer mains on my layout. The Hudson took it well without a load, and inadequate power drops by the way, do you expect that it will have a problem navigating the new course?

If that's the case I wouldn't mind getting in touch at some point, I've been around but not too vocal, if you need anyone to tell you I'm alright DJones can tell you I'm ok. Bought my 20th Century Dreyfuss and aforementioned H7 from him. 

You’ll be pushing it to its limits on a grade....my biggest issue with these stock is how much heat is generated pulling 6 heavyweights for any sustained time....and I run on the water level, so my track is level, no grades...and it was run on generous O81 & 090 ....after 30 minutes of run time, the quirky problems begin to show themselves....not acceptable to me....my run sessions can last for hours on end, and I don’t want jerky action.....watching 6 heavyweights bang together, jump back & forth is no fun for me...I’d be curious how your Kline does on that 2.5 grade after an hour of running with a real train behind it...10-12 heavyweights is the norm for all my Hudsons/ Pacifics....for many hours on end....my train room is on the main level of my house, so I can run trains all day long.....my other Pittman powered Hudsons by Lionel & MTH have no problems with very long trains, 6,7 or even 8 hour trips...I build 90% of my locomotives, so I build them for low amp draws, plenty of power, and strong drivetrains....I have ERR equipped ex-Pulmor Mohawks with thousands of hours logged....so well built, service intervals are 500 hours...and when Oct- Jan rolls around it doesn’t take long to get those hours racked up...I can entertain guests, and run trains, I can cook, and enjoy the trains, I can be anywhere in my house, and enjoy the trains,...I’m the exception, not the norm.....

Pat

@JohnActon posted:

Pat,  did you ever count the turns on the Kline gearbox.  I've been wondering what the ratio is.  John

30:1 John 

Pat

@Ron H posted:

These K-Line hudsons are just great for adding additional detail. This one has had every part of it detailed, Sanders, electrical, engine truck and wheels, trailing truck, valve gear and the prototype hudson's electrical wiring as well as ashpan rods. Any one can make these mods. This also has ERR and smoke.

Ron, we’re all still trying to catch up to you’re level buddy.....always beautiful work!..

Pat

I agree Ron makes some beautiful engines but the one pictured is a Williams Masterpiece J3a so it had a head start in the detail department. Larry, you are really gong to enjoy this when you get it back.

Pete

The champion Hudson puller is the Williams Scale Hudson which has traction tires on both the front and rear drivers.  I have both the K-Line and MTH scale Hudsons which struggle with 5-6 Madison heavyweights.  The Williams Hudson can take on 10-12 heavyweight cars without slowing down.

The Williams Hudson is not as beautiful standing still as the MTH and K-Line Hudsons but she is poetry in motion with a normal heavyweight consist of 10-12 passenger cars!

More traction tires equal more strength!

This looks like it's going to be a beauty ! 

Alex

@c.sam posted:

What a terrific modification Larry - Great for you sir!

.

c.sam how do you like that Vanderbilt? Is it the Lionel 777? Have you done any mods to it?

@harmonyards posted:

You’ll be pushing it to its limits on a grade....my biggest issue with these stock is how much heat is generated pulling 6 heavyweights for any sustained time....and I run on the water level, so my track is level, no grades...and it was run on generous O81 & 090 ....after 30 minutes of run time, the quirky problems begin to show themselves....not acceptable to me....my run sessions can last for hours on end, and I don’t want jerky action.....watching 6 heavyweights bang together, jump back & forth is no fun for me...I’d be curious how your Kline does on that 2.5 grade after an hour of running with a real train behind it...10-12 heavyweights is the norm for all my Hudsons/ Pacifics....for many hours on end....my train room is on the main level of my house, so I can run trains all day long.....my other Pittman powered Hudsons by Lionel & MTH have no problems with very long trains, 6,7 or even 8 hour trips...I build 90% of my locomotives, so I build them for low amp draws, plenty of power, and strong drivetrains....I have ERR equipped ex-Pulmor Mohawks with thousands of hours logged....so well built, service intervals are 500 hours...and when Oct- Jan rolls around it doesn’t take long to get those hours racked up...I can entertain guests, and run trains, I can cook, and enjoy the trains, I can be anywhere in my house, and enjoy the trains,...I’m the exception, not the norm.....

Pat

What you described is the reason I study hard! Hopefully one day I'll have that luxury of being able to run trains from a more central point. At the moment my layout is in the basement of my parents, there is a TV and some other stuff down there for background noise as well but I don't see running this layout for upwards of more than an hour or two at a time.

One day I would love to have a long enough layout to run full car Sunset Models 21' consists but my table is a T-Shape that's about 30 feet long by 8 feet wide with a 16 foot wide t section in the middle. So my desire for long trains gets bit back a little by my not wanting to run tail-chasers. I'll give my Hudson a go with the longer train and report back.

One thing I am lucky about is that my mainline minimum is 0-72 and most curves on the pike are 0-84 or 0-96. These Hudsons look so good coupled close lumbering around a large bend.

C Sam, thank you for chiming in, I really like these K-Line hudsons, and after reading about what’s under the hood, so to speak, (the boiler body) and learning through another thread about one offering an upgrade to enhance the K-Line hudsons performance, ta da, I was sold. Portland Rose, Thank You for also chiming in, when this new chassis and Pittman motor gets installed, this locomotive will become a stump puller.... (a little humor) and I’ve asked The Harmonyards to simply pretend it’s his and make it great.  This is going to be a great thread to follow.  It’s a fun hobby, fun people, and an exciting time in model railroading. Happy Railroading Everyone 

Good to see you Larry!  I bought your Lionel Pennsylvania J1a from you some years ago.  I like the detailing of the MTH and K-Line Hudsons and home Harmon Yards retooling of your K-Line gets it to go better!  I wish the manufacturers (MTH, K-Line and Lionel) had followed Williams lead by installing traction tires on both front and rear drivers.  It would seem to be a great improvement at little cost as shown by the Williams Hudson results.

Yes Portland Rose, I remember the sale we made, and that particular Pennsylvania Steamer is a beautiful locomotive. We have known each other via the OGR Forum for many years, Time sure flies. Regarding Hudson’s, I’ve owned 3 VL Hudson’s but for some reason I could not like them well enough to keep them. This K-Line hudson looks so good on the outside, but the forward facing small can motor is a real turnoff. Reading other threads and The Harmonyards upgrade offer, I jumped at the opportunity. I’m sure he’ll post a lot of pictures of his work and although it won’t be Legacy Command, it’s going to be a fun to run engine. I think it’s going to be a very beautiful Hudson. Thank You all for your support. Happy Railroading 

@MartyE posted:

c.sam how do you like that Vanderbilt? Is it the Lionel 777? Have you done any mods to it?

Hi Marty. I posted this shot to illustrate the poor visual effect with the stock pilot wheels. This CV is a 'blend' put together by Pete (Norton) some years ago that I purchased from him at York. If memory serves me correctly, it has the can motor & chassis with wireless tether/tender chassis of one of the later CV releases. I've not been able to get it to run smoothly as the linkage seems to bind from time to time and have not had the opportunity to have it worked on. I do have the scale pilot for it around in a box somewhere and will mount it one day!

Sam, that CV has the earlier CV shells on the later CV engine and tender frames. It still has a Pullmor motor but wireless tether, electro coupler, and Improved Railsounds. I used the chassis that came with that engine for the can motor conversion on my later black CV. The Pullmor motor may be the reason its not as smooth as your can motored engines.

Pete

@The Portland Rose posted:

Good to see you Larry!  I bought your Lionel Pennsylvania J1a from you some years ago.  I like the detailing of the MTH and K-Line Hudsons and home Harmon Yards retooling of your K-Line gets it to go better!  I wish the manufacturers (MTH, K-Line and Lionel) had followed Williams lead by installing traction tires on both front and rear drivers.  It would seem to be a great improvement at little cost as shown by the Williams Hudson results.

How are you running your Williams Hudson?.Conventional or did you put command in it?..I’ve never upgraded a Williams, I couldn’t ever get them tame enough to do slower speeds...like below Mach 9 ......at 100 mph yes, they are smooth, but anything below 30-40 SMPH, they just acted like roller coasters...and not to disprove what you say about the MTH Hudson, but I have no problems pulling 12-15 heavyweights with any of my MTH Hudsons, or any of the KLine Hudsons with the MTH mod of course....now, that’s on my layout, yours may differ...and another thing I do is I keep all my rolling stock in tune, so everything rolls with the least amount of resistance possible......but I will agree those Williams Hudsons ain’t so pretty, but with a crack of a ZW’s throttle, they will drag an entire consist of heavyweights without wheels....😉

Pat

I have one of these KLine scale Hudsons, converted to PS2, but still with the little Mabuchi motor. I am careful to only run it for short spells, but it is one of my favorite engines.

Not trying to hijack this thread but isn't there a forum gentleman who does motor conversions for KLines, replacing the original with a Pittman of some sort? Any info appreciated.

Rod

@Rod Stewart posted:

I have one of these KLine scale Hudsons, converted to PS2, but still with the little Mabuchi motor. I am careful to only run it for short spells, but it is one of my favorite engines.

Not trying to hijack this thread but isn't there a forum gentleman who does motor conversions for KLines, replacing the original with a Pittman of some sort? Any info appreciated.

Rod

That's @harmonyards.  Great guy.  He's doing a 773 conversion for me now.

@The Portland Rose posted:

 

The Williams Hudson is not as beautiful standing still as the MTH and K-Line Hudsons but she is poetry in motion with a normal heavyweight consist of 10-12 passenger cars!

Another advantage is the Williams has is proper lettering on the tender, not the odd extra space between "York" and "Central" that the K-Line has.

@breezinup posted:

Another advantage is the Williams has is proper lettering on the tender, not the odd extra space between "York" and "Central" that the K-Line has.

I'm not seeing an extra space, perhaps a very slight 1/4 space at best.  Two letters would certainly not fit between the K and the C on this K-Line tender.

@gunrunnerjohn posted:

I'm not seeing an extra space, perhaps a very slight 1/4 space at best.  Two letters would certainly not fit between the K and the C on this K-Line tender.

And to add to this, actually Williams letters are just a bit too chubby for the prototypes...but still, they don’t look horrible...

Pat

Nitpicking, perhaps, but certainly noticable. I remember this gap was noticed and mentioned when the K-Line Hudsons first came out. No doubt not a big deal to most folks, but it's definitely off.

Rod Stewart, Harmonyards is taking my K-Line hudson to the next level, a complete overhaul of the drive system, a new MTH hudson chassis with more accurate detailing, a hi powered Pittman motor, Gunrunner Johns smoke system, the Chuffer affair, 4 chuffs per revolution, ERR board, a detailed deck from cab to tender, curtains, new  headlight lens and more.  I love the NYC J1e design very much and thought since the locomotive needs a little pick me up, Harmonyards is my choice. It’s in the right hands. Mine will be TMCC.  This is a fun experience from which we can all learn from. Happy Railroading Everyone 

Larry, Please give us a report when you get the Hudson back with some photos!

I sold my K-line Hudson and Berk years ago when i realized that my collection was much bigger than I would ever have room to run. A decision that I still regret....

@The Portland Rose posted:

Larry, Please give us a report when you get the Hudson back with some photos!

Will do.  I put a prototypical headlight on my J3 #5416, but on this one, I just wanted a restomod of sorts of an oldie (looking) but goodie engine.  Always liked the 773 from yesteryear.  To have one with a big can motor with some goodies inside will be a treat, I think.  He's putting on scale-looking wheels on the pilot truck as well.  

Thank you all for your comments on this thread about making a K-Line Hudson a great model of the J1e in all areas. Yes, Harmonyards will be posting his work when he begins the project. I had never purchased many K-Line locomotives because of my love for Lionel Legacy. This is a new adventure for me, and does prove there are more choices on the market  today than ever. I am glad this upgrade is possible. Happy Railroading Everyone, Leapin Larry

Here’s some progress on Larry’s Kline Hudson MTH chassis swap....I’ll explain the pics in order as best I can....ask any questions y’all like if I didn’t make a step clear enough....

first step I do is establish wheel base marks, and ride height....the gold mark in the pic is washable marker, so I make a dot there to establish that...the ride height is found with a feeler gauge crammed between the tire and the body shell....next, we’ll size up the MTH chassis for fitment ...places marked in gold need to be trimmed off.....cuts and clean ups are done with a variety of shop tools, including a band saw, carbide bits, belt sanders, and a rolock air grinder.......next, we’ll fabricate a new mounting plate from 1/16” mild steel for the back mount....MTH is kind enough to leave me two perfect sized holes for mounting the rear plate ....so we’ll use those after we add self centering counter sinks....again as fate would have us, the front mount stand off lines up perfectly with one of the pre-drilled holes in the MTH chassis....we’ll do the same again for the front, counter sinking a self centering hole for a screw.......these countersunk screws will make life a breeze for servicing if the need arises, no fiddling with alignments.....I hate that....the factory Kline front mount stand off is much too tall to sit on the new chassis, so first we’ll go ahead and drill through it so we can tap it for the appropriate screw.....I just sneak up on trimming the stand off, till my feeler gauges match the original ride height....no magic there....just trim & fit, repeat....now that the new chassis is anchored, you can see how well the MTH parts fit and look right....our cylinders line up beautiful, and the stance is dead on..before final assembly, we’ll paint up and chemically reblacken all the parts.....in our next exciting episode, we’ll fit the pilot, along with front and rear kline trucks, and some rods and valve linkage.....don’t touch that dial kids, we’ll be back....what tv show was that from anyways??.....it’s on the tip of my tongue....god I’m getting old....

Pat

Hey guys, I just heard from Harmonyards and work on this Kline beauty will begin in the next few days or week, it’s so exciting. I am so glad that a different thread on Kline Berkshires led me to Harmonyards, this will be a much fun to run locomotive when it gets back home. Happy Railroading Everyone

Here’s some more progress on Larry’s ( I’ve got two Larrys in the shop) KLine swap project....we’ve fitted the MTH valve hanger to nestle under the Kline boiler, and have begun outfitting valve gear, guides, and all the rods...what I’ll be working on tonight is outfitting the snifter valve ( that’s the pipe assembly sticking out of the steam chest) and making that a little more accurate converging from the MTH chassis to the Kline boiler...beings both the MTH & the Kline are fairly accurate models, I can add a section of pipe to join the snifter back to its plumbing for a much better look....excuse all the multi colored parts at this point...everything will be appropriately painted/darkened for a good clean look...she’ll look better than factory when we’re through.....on the engineer’s side we’ll outfit it with the proper oiler linkage not found on the Kline model...then, it’ll be time to fit the Kline pilot assembly to the MTH chassis...I actually like the Kline pilot better than the MTH pilot....although very close in detail, the Kline edges out with more than the MTH...as far as I’m concerned, if Kline added just a few more detail parts, externally speaking, this would have been a model no mfr. could have rivaled....( here comes the murdering of the English language) we’ll make a near perfect diecast Hudson the most perfectliest....don’t touch that dial kids!...we’ll be back!...

Pat

Harmonyards,

We need a video of Leapin Larry's engine once you are done with it.

Erol Gurcan

@locolawyer posted:

Harmonyards,

We need a video of Leapin Larry's engine once you are done with it.

Erol Gurcan

Yes we do!..

Pat

Anyway to straighten the combination link ? It would look even better IMHO.

Ron H

Wow, Harmonyards, thank you again for more pictures of your work on the hudson. This is exciting, fun, and fantastic. I’m so glad to see this great progress and all the folks chiming in and even Rich Melvin on the newer 773 thread. Your work is simply awesome. This is what makes this hobby so much fun, sharing ideas, seeing others work, and making a model a top performer. Thank You again Harmonyards. We are looking forward to the next steps in the process. Happy Railroading Everyone

@Ron H posted:

Anyway to straighten the combination link ? It would look even better IMHO.

Ron H

I’m sure it still needs tweaking Ron, I’m still in rough mock up...but thanks for pointing it out...

Pat