Another scale Big Boy already?

Is it "either or?"  Perhaps Big Boy and another locomotive.  I would be interested on both. Maybe UP FEF?

😎

Dave and Ryan showed a preproduction model of a Big Boy and eluded even at York it will be coming out in the next catalog. 

I have three Big Boys... don't need another.

I hope they JUST do the 4014 and not re issue a bunch of cab numbers as well.

They probably just want to get one out with whitewalls and blackened side rods. I'm not still bitter about the Niagara at all. That's the main takeaway here.  

Besides … if Dave does another video like this … I am quitting the hobby. 

Sell em' while you can!!!  We keep buying, they will keep making them!!

 I bet we can count one fantasy scheme too...

Always a thrill to read about offerings of new and different steam prototypes  that have not been done...yeah, right.

Well I certainly can see why they would produce one.  With the current schedule for this year and years to come it will remain a popular steam engine.  There is a demand so my opinion is strictly from someone that already has one.  I've seen the VL models on Ebay going for well over the MSRP so there's that.  

Again if they offer it as it is today I can see a bigger demand.  A separate sale oil tender though would be a smart move for existing owners.  

I'm sure Lionel marketing has a much better insight to whether this will sell or not than I do.  I agree though, I'm not sure multiple road numbers are needed but then again you have to get the money out of the tooling.

Either way I hope they do sell a good many of them.  It's always good for the hobby.

ebay prices for Vision Line Big Boy are really high - looks like the demand is there.  But hope Lionel does another big steamer in next catalog as well.  In the meantime I am keen for Challenger to arrive.

😎

Wouldn’t a new run of Big Boys be a win win for those wanting either a new or used model?  Prices should plummet if a new one is available at half the price of older offerings, shouldn’t they?

I myself am not a big boy fan, so if that is in there its a pass. If they do pop that in there, it'll be interesting to see what are the other follow up to it besides the 4-4-0's in there. Have to wait and see what they put in there and what will be missing.

I sure don't need one.   At the April York last year (or maybe the October prior to that) Mr Muffin had 2 of the Vision Line Big Boys for sale at a steal of a price.   I'm sure with the hype there may be some folks who now are able to afford/fit one on the layout/or joined a club but I'd be shocked if the run was a large number of units.  This forum is only a fraction of the O-Gauge hobby - perhaps Lionel's market research indicates another run will sell.

-Greg

I have the VL-BB and the latest MTH Premier model, so I have a nice contrast from original build to Cheyenne rebuild, don't think I need another one.

Is there such a thing as lionel market research?  If so, why not make the PRR M1b again.  

I went with the MTH Rail-King, I did the pre-order with my LHS and I picked it up on March 26, 2019. I published a ten minute YT video that shows clips of the real Big Boy 4014, UP Rail-King 4014, how to program the hand held remote and how to program MTH DCS Wi-Fi. Along with the locomotive running on the layout.

Below is the video….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bi4-8uX-B84

Gary

I have the Legacy JLC Bigboy from 08, and 2 of the VL BB, so I’m done with them.  Happy with what I got they are great runners as well as functionality.

J Daddy posted:

Is there such a thing as lionel market research?  If so, why not make the PRR M1b again.  

Did Lionel make an M1b? I only know of the M1a they ran a few years back(Coal Hauler set and one or two other engines) and one TMCC that I think was special LCCA run?

As far as market research, a lot of it is guessing(if not most of it) and I would say that more of their guessing have been great hits where as others have been so so. However, some of their good ideas have had terrible releases with bugs(or big issues). The Mogul was probably the single most whacked release that there was with its big inconsistent issues.

Regardless of whether or not engines come with or without bugs, someone will buy one and that is what they count on. I don't ever plan on getting any big boy as I don't really find it tickling my fancy like the Y6 or the Challenger, but I know that other people prefer that over them. Someone(or more) will definitely buy a big boy or two, because it is probably replacing something else(whether it is TMCC or a smaller engine).

If I ever do somehow manage to be buying a big boy, it would probably be because someone managed to talk me into it(probably never happen), lol.

My guess for the Big Boy lineup will be the following:

• UP 4023 (Coal Fired)
• UP 4005 (Oil Fired)
• UP 4019 (Smoke Deflectors, LCCA Exclusive)
• UP 4014 (Excursion, Oil Fired)
• UP 4000 (Greyhound)
• Pilot 9999 (Coal Fired)
• Maybe even other numbers and/or a weathered version

Well gee whiz guys we still have yet to see the aforementioned 49er fantasy....

Or the World Series Champs version...

Or Nascar.... or

John Deere ......

Or.........

...and history aside, apparently the Union Pacific only had three types of steam locomotives.

FWIW, I see the asking prices of VL Big Boys....but I don't necessarily see anyone buying at that price point.

I just picked up a JLC Big Boy from 2008 from a fellow forum member, NIB.  Once my VL Challenger shows up in a few months, things should get interesting.  

In my opinion I hope and pray that Lionel does not reissue a scale big boy. Yes it would be neat to see what they come up with but it would sure hurt those who have a hard to find vl big boy. Also, in the photo from the show, the big boy in it might be the lion master version instead of a scale one. In the end, it makes me on the fence as well to see what the next catalog will hold. Just putting it out there, anybody know when the next catalog will be out?

Next catalog was slated July but they didn't have an actual date. Most likely second week is my guess.

22nd of July I believe they said on Ryan & Dave show

I would love to add a new VL Big Boy to my collection. Would happily save a spot next to the VL Challenger. After that all that is left is a VL #8444.

Trainmaster04 posted:

In my opinion I hope and pray that Lionel does not reissue a scale big boy. Yes it would be neat to see what they come up with but it would sure hurt those who have a hard to find vl big boy. Also, in the photo from the show, the big boy in it might be the lion master version instead of a scale one. In the end, it makes me on the fence as well to see what the next catalog will hold. Just putting it out there, anybody know when the next catalog will be out?

couldn't disagree with you more, respectfully.

model trains have, and will always be, reissued.  if you're in this hobby to make money, you're in it for the wrong reasons.

the notion that you can't make more VL Big Boys so that you don't hurt the feelings of those who have them is rather absurd....and almost elitist.  Why should no future customers be able to buy a VL Big Boy?

Was Big Orange worried about those who plunked down good coin on the 2008 JLC Big Boy when they introduced the VL Big Boy?  Absolutely not.  Nor should they have been.

VL Challengers, round two, are due out in a few weeks.  I didn't get one the first time around....but I am now.

Good. I hope they sell tons of them. Finally the ridiculous price gouging will be over with and those that want them can get them. This is coming from someone who owns a few already. If you bought your VL big boy and are upset the price might fall out, sell it now before the catalog is released. 

Of course I would also be in for an oil fired "excursion" 4014

Supposedly, Lionel did make a PRR M1b two years after the "blowout on the M1a and I believe it only came in a premium set.

If Lionel wants a popular PRR steam locomotive, they need to invest in the PRR T1! There hasn't been one since 2000 and MTH is stuck on making the two streamlined demonstrator units ONLY.

Berkshire President posted:

Trainmaster04 posted:

In my opinion I hope and pray that Lionel does not reissue a scale big boy. Yes it would be neat to see what they come up with but it would sure hurt those who have a hard to find vl big boy. Also, in the photo from the show, the big boy in it might be the lion master version instead of a scale one. In the end, it makes me on the fence as well to see what the next catalog will hold. Just putting it out there, anybody know when the next catalog will be out?

couldn't disagree with you more, respectfully.

model trains have, and will always be, reissued.  if you're in this hobby to make money, you're in it for the wrong reasons.

the notion that you can't make more VL Big Boys so that you don't hurt the feelings of those who have them is rather absurd....and almost elitist.  Why should no future customers be able to buy a VL Big Boy?

Was Big Orange worried about those who plunked down good coin on the 2008 JLC Big Boy when they introduced the VL Big Boy?  Absolutely not.  Nor should they have been.

VL Challengers, round two, are due out in a few weeks.  I didn't get one the first time around....but I am now.

I agree that all should have a chance to get a vision line locomotive or even a Lionel train at all. I also agree that those who are trying to sell a big boy for a high price should not do that but instead should sell them for the correct price. No I am not the person that buys lot of trains and then sells them for a higher price. I guess why I made that comment was because I was a little bit shocked and upset because as a collector this reissue could hurt. Finally, I do understand what it feels like to have a nice vl big boy but not be able to get one when Lionel were selling them a few years ago. 

Yes lionel did make a m1b. Here is a link to a vid: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSlABOYazsg 

prrhorseshoecurve posted:

Supposedly, Lionel did make a PRR M1b two years after the "blowout on the M1a and I believe it only came in a premium set.

If Lionel wants a popular PRR steam locomotive, they need to invest in the PRR T1! There hasn't been one since 2000 and MTH is stuck on making the two streamlined demonstrator units ONLY.

I agree, the T1 would be a good start. This would also be a good idea because there is that T1 trust group that want to rebuild one. Hopefully there is some great stuff coming in the new catalog that we can all enjoy.

how about a big boy 4014 with the oil tender and done like the one now running.  I do not think any one has made an oil tender,

David Roxin posted:

how about a big boy 4014 with the oil tender and done like the one now running.  I do not think any one has made an oil tender,

Mth has done a 4014 with an oil tender and with out the red nobs on the engineer side. 

I watched the Ryan & Dave show yesterday(I think it was put up Thursday) and they were talking about the American 4-4-0's mainly. As said above they popped out the big boy to compare and Ryan hinted about it. I would say it is a solid yes that we all will see scale big boys. Will they be VL's, probably a yes as well. Will they be new models as far as the 4014 oil fired, yes. I would think that perhaps they will break the mold so to speak, maybe we won't see the depleting coal load on any that would be coal fired, but what other features would they add?

What possibly could they do for the big boy that isn't in there? What numbers could they run(other than 4014 in both oil & coal)? Is it also possible that there could be new voice recordings? I'd say most likely?

Anyone have any other speculations?

How about Lionel guts with a brass body for all the details?  John in Lansing, ILL

Where can I see the video? I don’t do Facebook.

See if this works, its a link to the video.

https://m.facebook.com/story.p...fid=52&__tn__=-R

I find the depleting coal feature hokey and not worth the money.  I'd rather the feature be skipped and the price dropped.  On oil tenders, it's obviously not applicable.

I'd like to see a 4005 since I've been in the cab in Denver.

Feature wise, I'd like to see the dynamo/steam generator.....emitting steam.

I'd even trade that for whistle steam b/c, IMHO, on UP steam engines, the whistle is right behind the smoke stacks and the feature isn't that impressive...especially while the engine is moving.  The whistle steam gets lost in the steam coming out of the stacks.

Again, just my opinion.......

MartyE posted:

It was hinted on the Ryan and Dave show that there would be a Big Boy in the new catalog coming out in about a month.  I would assume it would be scale as the Lionmaster Big Boy is already cataloged.

If Lionel comes out with these will they be from the current version with an oil tender?  If so will Lionel offer an oil tender for existing VL and other Big Boy owners?  Realizing that the engine would not be 100% accurate for this it would be a nice way of upgrading without another $1900 vendor war purchase.

I have to admit I'm a bit on the fence on whether this is a good move.  One side says strike while the iron is hot with the current hype, the other half says there are so many other items that haven't been done in a long time.  

IMO it seems Lionel has made the right decision.  By holding off until the initial run they were able to incorporate some of the neat details from the run to UTAH including the chalk name on the boiler and plaque in the Cab.  Adding to that the road specific dialog and oil tender it seems they should sell a few of these to those who didn't buy the VL model and even a few that did.  Nice job on these!

I agree Marty. Even though I'm not a Big Boy fan, these do look nice with what features they put into them. I'm going for the EM-1 for my tastes.

J Daddy posted:

Besides … if Dave does another video like this … I am quitting the hobby. 

 

Dave Olson posted:

J Daddy posted:

Besides … if Dave does another video like this … I am quitting the hobby. 

 

There's Dave.

If you can't have fun at work, you need a new job.  Looks like Dave is having some fun!

Thought I saw in some thread what the differences were between the VL Big Boy and the one in the 2019 Vol 2 catalog.  Does anyone know what those differences are??

RickM46 posted:

Thought I saw in some thread what the differences were between the VL Big Boy and the one in the 2019 Vol 2 catalog.  Does anyone know what those differences are??

Yes you are correct. I answered this question in the thread on the matter of the catalog. Here is the answer to your question.

Vl big boy’s: the vision line big boy’s have four smoke units total. There are two for the smoke stack and one for the whistle. The smoke stacks have two smoke units because it has an alternating chuff. (You can get a better visual on Eric’s trains.) The next smoke features are the whistle steam and the blow down effect. Again total amount of smokes units are four. Since this is a vision line product Lionel usually puts some thins new and different into there locomotives. For the big boy’s they created the depleting coal load affect in the tender. This is a cool feature in my opinion, since this was a coal eating machine, it is nice to get a bit of the feeling that your loco is really working. That is all for the vision line bb so now let’s look at the new legacy version. 

The legacy bb: to start off with the new version is I would say is more based on the appearance than the extra smoke features. First off the locomotive only has a single smoke unit for the stack and it also has one for the whistle. There is not one for a blow down affect. Down towards the tender, instead of it being a coal tender it is an oil tender. This means there is no more depleting coal load. 

For both, they both have great details and both have stereo sound systems. They both have the same or similar sound files (I am guessing) and are good looking models of the real thing. The only difference between the two on the outside is that the new one is based on what it looks like today and the vl one is based on the real thing back in the early years of big boy history. 

Hope this helps y’all! Have a good day. 

Now I've seen the online catalog there's one other difference from the VL BB I notice. The "First Run" version in this issue has a Challenger oil tender - as indeed was the case with the real 4014 when it first went back on the rails. The "Excursion" version has a Big Boy oil tender, which does look different in the catalog illustrations and not just because the Challenger tender has silver bearing caps on the wheels.

Only one of the models has the chalk V sign on the boiler front. Somebody should make an O scale decal of that.

P.S. I should have checked before I wrote; Circus Decals has already produced the chalk lettering in O scale as part of a bigger UP set:

https://circusdecals.ecwid.com...3985-4014-p141270579

I have the Challenger version on order.  Also have Vision line version.  Will be fun to run both at the same time!

😎

Harold

Thanks Hancock and Trainmaster!  I seem to remember vaguely that the red ash pan knobs are not on this legacy version.

RickM46 posted:

Thanks Hancock and Trainmaster!  I seem to remember vaguely that the red ash pan knobs are not on this legacy version.

Yes that would be correct on the red knobs. Also, since this is an oil burner Lionel should take out the ash pan.

Hancock52 posted:

Now I've seen the online catalog there's one other difference from the VL BB I notice. The "First Run" version in this issue has a Challenger oil tender - as indeed was the case with the real 4014 when it first went back on the rails. The "Excursion" version has a Big Boy oil tender, which does look different in the catalog illustrations and not just because the Challenger tender has silver bearing caps on the wheels.

Only one of the models has the chalk V sign on the boiler front. Somebody should make an O scale decal of that.

P.S. I should have checked before I wrote; Circus Decals has already produced the chalk lettering in O scale as part of a bigger UP set:

https://circusdecals.ecwid.com...3985-4014-p141270579

I have the VL #4014 Bigboy. It's a well done and accurate "as built" model of the prototype.  Could be the best model ever done by Lionel.   Not sure about the prototype in its current oil burning state but I believe it now has the larger enclosed cab similar to the #844.    If the prototype is now enclosed does the new Lionel model reflect that change?

JC642 posted:

I have the VL #4014 Bigboy. It's a well done and accurate "as built" model of the prototype.  Could be the best model ever done by Lionel.   Not sure about the prototype in its current oil burning state but I believe it now has the larger enclosed cab similar to the #844.    If the prototype is now enclosed does the new Lionel model reflect that change?

Why would the cab be larger?  All the Big Boys already had an enclosed cab:

Rusty