Last week at York, Lionel reps indicated the newest batch of N&W J Class engines were shipping to dealers & distributors. Anyone get their’s yet?
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There was a Facebook video by Derek from Notch 6 who unboxed one.
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OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Gilly@N&W posted:OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Ohhhhh this is a $64,000 question!!
I’m guessing 601, 603 and 610. We are letting him include J1s right??
I'd personally like to see the 611 excursion versions. Anyone able to share a video? I'm very curious as to how the custom crew talk sounds came out.
Looks nice Scott, hope you enjoy it.
What color is the stripe?
M J Breen posted:Gilly@N&W posted:OK Scott, come clean. What Cab#s of Scale Js are you missing? Glad to see you got the 600.
Ohhhhh this is a $64,000 question!!
I’m guessing 601, 603 and 610. We are letting him include J1s right??
I'm pretty sure he has an unshrouded 610.
Just did a MTH Cab# search. The only #s missing from the Premier line are 600, 606, 609. Since Lionel just did the 600 and I know Lionel did the 606, if Scott is missing any number, it's probably the 609.
Stripe looks too red to me. What do you think in person Scott?
Brian at Legacy Station shipped my 2016 excursion version today. I bought this engine for authenticity. The stripe on the model is way too red compared to the prototype. I’m a little nervous already. I’ve got Lionel passenger cars that I plan to pull behind this. It looks like that Camera observation car red has been used on the engine too. I may have to send this back. Look at the N&W car behind Scott’s engine. It’s the authentic Tuscan color which is way off from the engine. Ouch!
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MartyE posted:Stripe looks too red to me. What do you think in person Scott?
I thought so as well. It’s close to one of the Williams J from a few years back. It's close to the theater car red. If you look close I have a Tuscan red passenger car behind it. I have been told they will be offering a replacement shell with the correct color.
Scott Smith
I'm not sure how they ended up with that shade of red. The last batch of Lionel J's came out less than 6 years ago, and had accurate colored stripes...
I have one on one order, Spirit of Roanoke, when it comes out. I’ll have to evaluate it.
I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie, this is spot on. I don’t want to come off as a complainer, but how does this keep happening? At some point, a corrective action plan has to be put in place, right?
The color doesn't look bad to me (same as the theater car). It was based off of photos from the 1940's & 50's. I'm more worried that it might end up with the Vision Line Big Boy whistle instead of 611's whistle.
M J Breen posted:Well it didn’t take long for the usual crowd to show up.
And for the record - I have 5 Js on order, And I have 6 of the baggage cars and RPOs, and the NS theater car too. My 746 and 600 came in with the same issue. I talked to Lionel at York about this, they acknowledged the mistake, they’re going to do right by me and at the end of the day I’ll be satisfied.
Now can we keep this thread to just about the folks who only ordered the New Js and if they’ve shown up for them?
The usual crowd? I see folks who ordered the J, myself included a little concerned about it.
The thread so far, before you put up your cute picture was a very civil discussion with no one getting personal. The thread as a whole has been fairly calm for this type of error. My compliments to most of those who have so far posted.
Lionel has had a great many paint issues this year that has caused them to replace shells at their cost, they stood behind their product, but nonetheless it has been happening a lot. Ryan acknowledged that and said they are putting procedures in place to help prevent that. The Polar RPO cars were part of that, which I have sitting at my dealer. Ryan said this would be corrected.
The stripe looks incorrect on an early video and now Scott's photo. I also spoke with Ryan and he did acknowledge that there may be an issue but he hadn't seen the video I referenced to him but he did promise Lionel would make it right if it wasn't. That was good enough for me. He did say the Spirit of Roanoke might have been darker so I should wait until it's delivered. Since I haven't seen it in person I was going to wait to post what I was told at York but since you accused folks of "whining" I thought I'd post this.
The tool car is definitely more on the pink / red as I also have one of those.
So let's continue to discuss this like grownups which IMO we have. We can bring these issues up, discuss them like adults, as long as we don't get personal and keep the thread civil.
I personally want to thank Ryan for listening to my concerns and assuring me Lionel will stand behind their products 100%.
Great news! Sounds like there’s gonna be a fix. Looking forward to getting my engine. Cool!
Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
N&W 1218 posted:Great news! Sounds like there’s gonna be a fix. Looking forward to getting my engine. Cool!
That is great news. I was apprehensive after seeing Derek's video but after talking to Ryan about the J and the Polar items I'm satisfied Lionel will make them right if need be. It shouldn't happen but it did, they'll make it right, so I'm moving on until or if something changes.
Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Thats the one I have on order. When it comes in I plan on taking my AFT T1 & GS4 and comparing them for paint and other details. I will post pics.
DaveSlie posted:Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Thats the one I have on order. When it comes in I plan on taking my AFT T1 & GS4 and comparing them for paint and other details. I will post pics.
Thank you! Post a video too if you could, I'm interested in the sounds.
The red looks absolutely perfect for the 746 version 👍🏼 - I was concerned that was going to be to maroon
Thank you Lionel
dorfj2 posted:The red looks absolutely perfect for the 746 version 👍🏼 - I was concerned that was going to be to maroon
Thank you Lionel
Ryan mentioned the the Spirit of Roanoke would be a darker stripe so I'm waiting to see. I'm glad you're happy with the version you ordered! Have fun with it.
Scott,
I want that locomotive. I should have just taken it from you on Thursday night at Steak and Lube.
Erol
Mine is early Williams. Perfect paint - very pleased. I did have to bring the tender truck sideframes inboard about 1/8".
The Tuscan paint color isn't the only error. Larger to me is the use of the Alligator vs Laird crosshead. N&W 600-604 had Laird, 605-613 had Alligator crossheads.
Gilly, I noticed that also. The tender trucks appear to be incorrect, too. I'm guessing it doesn't have a curved tender deck, either.
I think Lionel did a version of the early J where those details were correct at some time. I think they slapped 600 on a later version J here and put spoked pilot trucks on there.
I'm not a fan of the color choice there also.
Did they take down the Notch 6 video?
Based on some of their more recent releases, when the J-Classes were announced, I expected Lionel would mess something up, whether it be the colors, sounds, functions, or anything in between. This release has proven that theory true, however, there are things Lionel has improved upon from the previous run of J's. One of the things I'm noticing right off the bat is the fact that on the last run of J's, the stripe on the engine and tender are very noticeably misaligned, and that has been corrected on this run. Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Peter Araujo posted:I'm more worried that it might end up with the Vision Line Big Boy whistle instead of 611's whistle.
|FWIW.Technically this whistle is correct for any of the "present day' versions of the 611 i.e " Spirit of Roanoke" for example as she is currently wearing a Hancock 3 chime whistle as is 844,4014, as well as. the mothballed 3985.
I believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
The video is still up and will remain up on our Facebook page.
TrainMan1225 posted:Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Never mind the fact it just spent over a month on public display at Strasburg...
ES44AC posted:TrainMan1225 posted:Additionally, being able to fully determine the color of the stripe on the real 611 would require being able to see the engine in person, which is becoming increasingly harder to do anymore.
Never mind the fact it just spent over a month on public display at Strasburg...
True, and then she's going to Spencer, N.C. after that for events in November and in Spring of next year. But after that, where will she be next? A volunteer at Strasburg was only able to tell me that after these events, the engine will be, in her words, "tucked away". Therefore, only time will tell.
RickO postedI believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
From what I understand, the whistle that the 611 used back in the 80s was not it's original. That supposedly disappeared while it was in Wasena Transportation Museum (Roanoke). In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
As for Mr Claytor's whistle, for everything he and his brother did for the steam program they deserve to keep it. It probably came off of another J.
Let's take a moment to appreciate what it takes to get 611 over the road to these different locations. First and foremost, a HUGE debt of gratitude should be given to Norfolk Southern. Since 611 was restored in 2015 it had always been the plan to keep 611 within two crew districts of Roanoke. Strasburg is SIX crew districts from Roanoke. It is only because of the generosity of NS that 611 can hit the road these days.
Also, it is nearly impossible to predict where and what the locomotive will be able to do on a year to year basis. It was strongly hinted at in 2017 that the tea leaves suggested that mainline trips would be out for 2018. We strongly encouraged people during our 611 podcast in 2017 to take advantage of the mainline trips while they could. Mainline steam railroading changes on a dime these days and with the upheaval of PSR coupled with sweeping changes at Amtrak, it's just hard to get locomotives out and about.
The events in Strasburg have been nearly two and a half years in the planning stage and it was only once all the I's dotted and T's crossed that it was announced. If something happens for 2020, I doubt we'll know until the Spring.
That all being said, the group and the VMT is always looking for opportunities to get the locomotive out on the road and I highly doubt they will stop looking for those opportunities.
Has anyone noticed the way too bright marker lights? In the Notch6 video they were just screaming at me while I was trying to focus on the rest of the engine. Just an observation.
Gilly@N&W posted:RickO postedI believe it has been mention previously, 611's original whislte is still on Mr. Claytors mantle.
( Sure wish he would return it, its the true voice of 611 IMO)
From what I understand, the whistle that the 611 used back in the 80s was not it's original. That supposedly disappeared while it was in Wasena Transportation Museum (Roanoke). In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
As for Mr Claytor's whistle, for everything he and his brother did for the steam program they deserve to keep it. It probably came off of another J.
Thanks for the history lesson Gilly! So many rumors or legends sometimes its hard to know what the truth is.
Do not preorder!
The Portland Rose posted:Do not preorder!
And then nothing gets made. I say pre-order and then if it's wrong return it or push to get it corrected. The problem with not pre-ordering is then it will just get cancelled and never see the light of day. Every manufacturer that produces hi end engines uses the BTO model whether they call it that or not.
This never would have happened in the Maddox days. Hope they paint my J3 Hudson right. Probably show up purple the way they’re going lately.
Anyone who has the 2005 611 TMCC J should know that it was the best one they ever made. They put the scale class lights on it and never used them again. Must have thrown them out with the paint sample cards.
BTW, recitation of the account regarding the 611 whistle.
(the book) Norfolk & Western Passenger Service 1946-1971 by William E. Warden
In reference to the last run of the Pocahontas on May 1, 1971 on page 13:
"Best of all, instead of the 759's somewhat shrill whistle, the engine had been outfitted with the mellow steamboat whistle of J-class 4-8-4 No. 611, then residing in the Roanoke Transportation Museum".
BTW, from what I can tell, Lionel did do a great job with the sound file on this latest engine. And the whistle steam is very nice.
Having just returned from York, and the pleasure of riding #611 last Friday afternoon with my wife opened up some opportunity. Having always telling her, "this is my last engine I have been looking for", I received full blown encouragement to purchase a Spirit of Roanoke.
Back at home, and all lathered up, which one? The Lionel Legacy or the Pre-Order MTH version. I know the MTH is not here yet to see if there are paint issues, but having just gone through the ALCO readdress issues with 2 sets (one not back yet after re-return), Challenger sound issue & the Polar Express blue color issue, I need a breather. I will Pre-Order the MTH. Not worth the hassle since the other hassles are still very fresh.
I am not done with Lionel. I just think they need a break from me while they get there color communication straightened out. I hope they do, because I am very fond of their products and sometimes the other does not have the model and road number. I know it is a blip. But for how long, I don't know.
Long live all of our favorite manufacturers!
MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie,
I normally don't weigh-in on things like this, but I'll put on my professional (HA!) cap for a moment and offer an opinion.
It dawned on me what had likely occurred a year or so at a local hobby shop, which had a nice wall of current Lionel product. Quite frankly, very few things looked right in my "mind's eye," something I've developed over time and bringing 1000+ products to market. I believe that the reason Lionel's entire product line has color-shifted over the past several years is not because they need Pantone books -- but rather because they're using them. The problem is that the vast majority of "railroad colors" don't have Pantone (PMS) equivalents. You can likely find something close with many lighter hues, but the darker, richer and/or dirtier colors won't have anything in the ballpark.
Back in the day (early 2000's), Lionel had their offshore manufacturing partners match the appropriate colors from chips generated from the paint used domestically. No Pantone. It was a big chore, but also a necessary one -- the paint had to match current and pre-existing product, regardless of where it was manufactured. Period.
Regardless, I believe that sometime over the past handful of years, a decision was made to switch from Lionel's decades-old paint codes and swatches, and convert to PMS. I can understand why. Pantone is recognized everywhere, and by simply calling out PMS 877c on a deco print, everyone worldwide is quickly on the same page. Conversely, "8366 Tuscan" -- Lionel's old color for that N&W stripe -- doesn't mean anything unless the proper chip is provided to match. (And ever wonder why all Lionel's steam locos had bright silver boiler fronts all of a sudden? My guess is because there's only one "metallic gray" -- 877c Silver -- in the standard Pantone book.)
So the color problems that keep occurring aren't about individual products -- they're a systemic issue that won't change until the Pantone books are closed, and the company makes an effort to stress product integrity over efficiency by diving into the company's old color library.
Of course, the above is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
TRW
What about 603, AFT 611, or 746?
Todd,
I'm not sure I agree with you completely on PMS. Pantone is a color standard for ink not paint. Of course they would have to match the PMS color or an in-between blend with paint. Why would they settle on something that they know is the wrong color when mixing the paint match?
That line of thinking just doesn't make any sense to me.
Wow, I just noticed that the wheel flanges are way oversized compared to the real thing. That’s it for me. I’m done.
Still waiting on seeing the AFT version
Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Say WHAT? Does anyone have a photo of that?
I know they mulled over maybe getting 611 for the Freedom train for a short while...
p51 posted:Maxrailroad posted:Anyone get the Freedom Train version? I might bite the bullet on it depending on how it looks. Thanks!
Say WHAT? Does anyone have a photo of that?
I know they mulled over maybe getting 611 for the Freedom train for a short while...
From the Lionel 2019V1 catalog - it was one of the 6 choices offered. This is a “what if” scheme but like you said, 611 was realistically considered for the role and there is drawings and documents from Ross Rowland showing the paint scheme for 611, albeit his shows it without the bullet nose more like the J1 warbaby.
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I called Lionel customer service today.
No change in status.
They said they are "in discussion" as to the stripe color on the new J.
I asked if they did offer a fix, will they work directly with customers, for those that had already received theirs.
They said yes.
Jeff2035 posted:I called Lionel customer service today.
No change in status.
They said they are "in discussion" as to the stripe color on the new J.
I asked if they did offer a fix, will they work directly with customers, for those that had already received theirs.
They said yes.
If Lionel did "fix the stripe color", to what color would they "fix it"?
Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
Not just you. A lesson in marketing school coming up.
Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
They would go back overseas. They would not paint them in NC .
MartyE posted:Hot Water posted:Jeff2035 posted:Probably something like their 2005 J.
Customers could decide whether they like the color on the new Js or would like the color on earlier production.
Maybe it's just me but, I can not believe that the Lionel Service Dept. would even attempt to re-paint stripes on a high-end model like the N&W J. All these models are painted and pad-printed lettering in China, and the odds of the Lionel Service Dept. setting up spray booths and pad-printing equipment in North Carolina just doesn't seem logical, to me anyway.
They would go back overseas. They would not paint them in NC .
Ah, right. Back to the Chinese factory that painted it incorrectly in the first place?
Gilly@N&W posted:In 1971 NKP 759 pulled the last Pocahontas train out of Roanoke. I have a book that mentions that it was using the 611's whistle that was removed from the 611 while it was on display at Wasena. I have strong suspicions that the 759 may still be wearing the 611's original whistle.
Perhaps she was wearing 611's whistle, but she is not still wearing it today. First of all, the 759 continued running trips until 1973, and if you listen to recordings that have taken place anytime after that run, you will not hear anything that resembles a Hancock 3 Chime. This record does have some recordings of that run as well, but the overwhelming majority of the recordings feature the standard Nathan 6 Chime.
Second of all, take a look at this video by one of my good friends. If you look at the shot from the bridge of Baldwin no. 26 pulling the 759 on to the turntable (about a minute and a half in), you will see she still has a whistle attached, but visually speaking, it does not resemble a Hancock.
This is not meant to steer the topic away from the original subject. Only providing information. Hope this helps!
Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Hot Water posted:Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Lionel doesn't have the tooling to do those crosshead guides.
Peter Araujo posted:Hot Water posted:Jeff T posted:Surefire posted:Does Lionel not check even a few before shipping them all over the country? Part of me thinks they are well aware of all these errors but send em out anyway and cross their fingers enough people will not complain.
IMHO most are happy to have a new engine on their layout. A small, but vocal, percentage will be upset about the shade of color. Isn't that how it always works??
What about the low numbered N&W J models, i.e. #600 with the incorrect crosshead guides? Is THAT how it works also?
Lionel doesn't have the tooling to do those crosshead guides.
Lionel did the correct crosshead guides on the UP FEF-3 4-8-4 models, and the SP GS-4 4-8-4 models, and the UP 4-6-6-4 models, and the UP 4-8-8-4 models, and the NYC Niagara 4-8-4 models, ALL of which have the Laird multiple bearing crosshead guides, which should be on the N&W low number J class models.
Somehow, I don't see the problem with getting high-end models correct.
This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
Peter Araujo posted:This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
BS, we're just talking about the back of the cylinders!
Big Jim posted:Peter Araujo posted:This would cause Lionel to re-tool the locomotive which can be cost-prohibited.
BS, we're just talking about the back of the cylinders!
Apparently he didn't read and comprehend what I posted, above, about all those other Lionel steam locomotive models with the Laird Multiple Bearing crosshead guides.
Mine's coming tomorrow from Charles Ro, along with the Vision Line Auxiliary Tender.
Just took mine out of the box, and found a loose screw in there. Overall condition is excellent. The top half of the nose cone is also loose. So I'm assuming that was where the screw came from. Not sure if I should exchange it or take it apart and find the source of that screw. I also didn't run it yet just in case I decide to send it back.
She runs great! I just gave mine a test run, and decided to keep it and find a way to put the screw back. I also have the UP Water Tender in the background.
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PaperTRW posted:MichRR714 posted:I'm just curious... Has Lionel explained to anyone why they can't seem to get the colors right? The mistakes just keep happening... A mistake on a piece here and there would be one thing and understandable.
I personally don't understand why they can't get a handle on this. Howard needs to buy a couple Pantone books.
Charlie,
I normally don't weigh-in on things like this, but I'll put on my professional (HA!) cap for a moment and offer an opinion.
It dawned on me what had likely occurred a year or so at a local hobby shop, which had a nice wall of current Lionel product. Quite frankly, very few things looked right in my "mind's eye," something I've developed over time and bringing 1000+ products to market. I believe that the reason Lionel's entire product line has color-shifted over the past several years is not because they need Pantone books -- but rather because they're using them. The problem is that the vast majority of "railroad colors" don't have Pantone (PMS) equivalents. You can likely find something close with many lighter hues, but the darker, richer and/or dirtier colors won't have anything in the ballpark.
Back in the day (early 2000's), Lionel had their offshore manufacturing partners match the appropriate colors from chips generated from the paint used domestically. No Pantone. It was a big chore, but also a necessary one -- the paint had to match current and pre-existing product, regardless of where it was manufactured. Period.
Regardless, I believe that sometime over the past handful of years, a decision was made to switch from Lionel's decades-old paint codes and swatches, and convert to PMS. I can understand why. Pantone is recognized everywhere, and by simply calling out PMS 877c on a deco print, everyone worldwide is quickly on the same page. Conversely, "8366 Tuscan" -- Lionel's old color for that N&W stripe -- doesn't mean anything unless the proper chip is provided to match. (And ever wonder why all Lionel's steam locos had bright silver boiler fronts all of a sudden? My guess is because there's only one "metallic gray" -- 877c Silver -- in the standard Pantone book.)
So the color problems that keep occurring aren't about individual products -- they're a systemic issue that won't change until the Pantone books are closed, and the company makes an effort to stress product integrity over efficiency by diving into the company's old color library.
Of course, the above is just my opinion. I could be wrong.
TRW
MichRR714 posted:Todd,
I'm not sure I agree with you completely on PMS. Pantone is a color standard for ink not paint. Of course they would have to match the PMS color or an in-between blend with paint. Why would they settle on something that they know is the wrong color when mixing the paint match?
That line of thinking just doesn't make any sense to me.
Charlie,
Sorry for the delay in following-up. I didn't catch your response until now.
Check out this Lionel artwork that Charlienassau posted earlier this year for his Long Island C420's:
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...u%20Hobbies%20Ex.pdf
https://ogrforum.ogaugerr.com/...u%20Hobbies%20Ex.pdf
The color call-outs on those are basically Pantone across the board. I can tell you with absolute certainty that the orange and gray LI color scheme did NOT start out as PMS, so somewhere along the line, someone took the Lionel historical paint swatches and converted them to a "close enough" Pantone. As I noted in my first note, the problem is that historical "railroad" colors don't really have equivalents in the world of "clean, shiny and happy" PMS colors (I'm channeling a graphic designer that I once worked with).
Using Pantone in the business world for all sorts of color matching is nothing new. Some corporate Style Guides go as far to include an actual paint chip and then a separate PMS code for printing. If I remember right, UPS is one of those -- their PMS brown color is quite a bit different from the color used to paint their delivery vehicles (Package Cars in UPS parlance), but they properly understand the differences between paint (and the associated tints) with the printed page, a lot of which is CMYK.
As I write this, I'm more convinced than ever that all the color drifting and downright bad color selection over the past few years from Lionel is a result of them switching to an entirely Pantone-based color reference. The issue likely has nothing to do with poor execution on behalf of their offshore manufacturing partners.
TRW
If someone who has both the TMCC J and the 2019 version please post a side by side. My last 2 preordered locomotives were the SF PA ABA and the "Spirit of Roanoke" 611 J.
I’d also like to see a side by side comparison. I’d like to see a side by side of the 2019 J and the Lionel 18” aluminum passenger cars. I pre-ordered “ Spirit of Roanoke “ hoping to use it to pull my passenger cars.
Anyone have the Freedom Train and/or 746 ones yet?
I received my 600 and the paint is flawless.
Yes, the stripe color is as everyone says...probably too much red.
I have the January 1983 copy of Trains magazine.
It features the 611, as the cover, in honor of the 611 returning to steam.
On page 45 there is a half page color side view photo of the 611 and when I place the photo next to my new J, I think the new J reddish stripe looks a lot like the 1983 color photo.
I will get my 600 on the track tomorrow.
If it runs fine, then it is a keeper.
A picture of the J without the older properly colored passenger cars is useless. We all know what they look like in the catalog or on the iPad without color vetting. Does anyone have the cars with the new J?
Received mine today.....it is one beautiful train.......but more importantly it worked flawlessly right out of the box. Heres a quick pic and video of it in action. Sorry not to be able to show it in detail, no time tonight, but I am sure other owners will do it justice......
-Pete
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Anyone have pictures or video of the 746 J? I hear it was supposed to have a secondary air whistle in it like the postwar version...
Still looking for a side by side of the new 611 with the 18” aluminum passenger cars. Anyone?
Tonight I unboxed the new 746 version of the J, And I think this one is spot on!
I posed it for photos alongside my postwar 746, and my Lionel 606 (#6-38026 from 2002) and a Sunset Models K2a - this is 3 of my 19 J class engines shown here.
Also here’s a video of the air whistle - something some folks may not have realized is this one has a whistle meant to simulate a postwar style air whistle. I am in conventional mode here so I did not test out the quilable whistle here but it’s got it.
Theres a lot of subtle details here that are easy to miss - no builders plate, blacked out marker lights, blacked out handrail on the nose, blacked out headlight ring, curved tender deck, no class plate on the steam chest - many things faithful to the 1958 version of the 746.
I’m really very happy with this engine!!!
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Cool whistle! How about crew talk for the 746? Specific for the engine?
MJ
Now that looks pretty good to match the PW version and the whistle is an awesome touch with the trailing whirl sound. Love to see more of this one running! Have fun!
N&W 1218 posted:Cool whistle! How about crew talk for the 746? Specific for the engine?
Is that prototypical? I don't hear any high frequencies...maybe just at the end of the quilling.
I like the black out paint.
Side note, I am glad Ross Rowland didn't use the real 611 for the American Freedom Train. Who knows where 611 would be today or what shape it would be in! We all know what happened to AFT #1 in the Hagerstown roundhouse fire. And where she sits now at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore rusting away!
J 611 posted:Side note, I am glad Ross Rowland didn't use the real 611 for the American Freedom Train. Who knows where 611 would be today or what shape it would be in! We all know what happened to AFT #1 in the Hagerstown roundhouse fire. And where she sits now at the B&O Railroad Museum in Baltimore rusting away!
As additional information, the "original plan" for powering the American Freedom Train, was for doubleheaded NKP Berkshires, i.e. Mr. Rowland's NKP 759 and the 763 from Roanoke, Va.. The 763 was even moved from Roanoke to a location (can't remember where) for restoration, with 759.
Subsequently, clearer heads prevailed, since the midwestern and western railroads would have no part of doubleheaded coal burning steam locomotives on their respective railroads. Thus, the oil burning SP GS-4 #4449 was selected for motive power, throughout the west and midwest.
Lionel knocked it out of the park on the 746 version! The AFT doesn't look half bad either.
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M J Breen posted:Tonight I unboxed the new 746 version of the J, And I think this one is spot on!
I posed it for photos alongside my postwar 746, and my Lionel 606 (#6-38026 from 2002) and a Sunset Models K2a - this is 3 of my 19 J class engines shown here.
Also here’s a video of the air whistle - something some folks may not have realized is this one has a whistle meant to simulate a postwar style air whistle. I am in conventional mode here so I did not test out the quilable whistle here but it’s got it.
Theres a lot of subtle details here that are easy to miss - no builders plate, blacked out marker lights, blacked out handrail on the nose, blacked out headlight ring, curved tender deck, no class plate on the steam chest - many things faithful to the 1958 version of the 746.
I’m really very happy with this engine!!!
That whistle is pretty neat. I almost thought it had an actual air whistle in the tender for a second.
BFI66 posted:
The locomotive - ho hum, yet another J re-re-re-release ... wait ... it has a smoking whistle! Yes, this is a keeper! I have the Lionel Pocahontas sets from a few years back with the aluminum cars. Love them but they were made during that period when Lionel discontinued smoking whistle on straight Legacy - I think the smoke effect definitely adds to the fun factor. Enjoy!
By the way, what is that tall circular stone structure on your layout - the one your new locomotive passes almost immediately after moving out? I'm a sucker for brick and stone structures and wow, that thing looks awesome!
Got mine yesterday, I’m not happy with the color of the stripe.
Doug which version did you get? I’m being very patient but things have quieted down on this subject. I’d really like to know what if anything will be done? Can we have a Lionel representative chime in on the subject?